Why do some people think Hell isn't real?

[ssammoh]

The verse you are talking about is;

[NAS] REV 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever/aion and ever/aion.

But not all translations translate that Greek word aion as "forever" or "eternal". They consistently translate it as an eon which is an 'age' or a 'period of time'. Below is the same verse as translated by Robert Young who also authored the popular Young's Hebrew and Greed Concordance. YLT stands for Young's Literal Translation.

[YLT] REV 20:10 and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where {are} the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night - to the ages/aion of the ages/aion.

In his book God‘s Methods with Man, G. Campbell Morgan (scholar, associate of D.L. Moody, and a highly respected expositor of Scrip-ture), said: Let me say to Bible students that we must be very careful how we use the word ―eternity. We have fallen into great error in our constant use of that word. There is no word in the whole Book of God corresponding with our ―eternal, which, as commonly used among us, means absolutely without end. The strongest Scripture word used with refer-ence to the existence of God, is "unto the ages of the ages", which does not literally mean eternally.

That sounds more like there is a Hell but that it's not actually eternal, than there not being a hell at all.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

And what does you Pastor say when you ask these questions?

 

[he-man]

I think he-man, that very few people remember how many times the Hebrews were under bondage. I am grateful that I received sound instruction and input. I fear for this current generation who are presented with a low fat, low carb christianity and rarely are taught to count the cost. To put off the old carnal man and to put on the new. To die to the flesh and to hear his voice and obey.
When they started to use smoke machines during church services, I knew we were in trouble.

but where does that address what I posted that God is in control and a FIRE you cannot extinguish and not some "bogeyman" ?

The belief of the Hebrews down to the Babylonian exile seems but dimly to have recognised either Satan or demons, at least as a dogmatic tenet, nor to it any occasion for them, since retreated moral effigy is a properly human act (comp. Gen. iii), and always subjective and concrete, but regarded misfortune, according to theological axioms, as a punishment deserved on account of sin at the hands of a righteous God, who inflicted it especially by the agency of his angels (2 Sam. xxiv,16; comp. 2 Kings xix. and was accordingly looked upon as the proper affliction of every afflictive dispensation (Amos iii, 6). Cyclopaedia of biblical, theological and ecclesiastical literature. page 776

Fear God, not a bogeyman who is is an amorphous imaginary being used by false hell-fire preachers and adults to frighten people into compliant behaviour!

2Sa 24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.

Amo 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
39 Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?

Jer 18:7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;

 

[Soulgazer]

Hahaha...well, you take a group of men....seperate them in remote places....where they give away all of their old lives and worldy possessions....give up all of their families...forced to live in countries that are extremely hot....with little water....and no fun...no women....where they flog and punish themselves because they feel guilty of 'evil thoughts', where they deny themselves of everything, including joy and the only book they are allowed to read is the bible and it won't take long for the "Crazy" to surface. Thus were were the scribes and authors of crazy church doctrines born. :o

I'm not so sure they were all cRazY We may be surprised to find God really is the Great Purple Aardvark of the Pango Tango. When it comes to the unknown, "ya puts yer money down and ye place yer bet".
The actual history of Christianity is a one hundred and eighty degree direction from that taught in bible colleges. I had to "unlearn" a lot of what I had been taught to sift through the "mulecake". Though I think you are probably correct about the boredom being the root of all religion.

 

[Hillsage]

That sounds more like there is a Hell but that it's not actually eternal, than there not being a hell at all.

To me it sounds like Hades/the grave is not eternal. Which is a belief that is consistent even with orthodoxy...I think.

1CO 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave/HADES, where is thy victory?
Translators only translate HADES correctly when it doesn't fit their eternal torture theology.

And, according to scripture, both death and the grave/hell/HADES are cast into the lake of fire ("our God is a consuming fire") and in 'that' fire we have "the second death" or 'the death of, death and the grave/HADES'.

REV 20:14 And death and hell/hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[Fascinated With God]

But not all translations translate that Greek word aion as "forever" or "eternal". They consistently translate it as an eon which is an 'age' or a 'period of time'. Below is the same verse as translated by Robert Young who also authored the popular Young's Hebrew and Greed Concordance. YLT stands for Young's Literal Translation.

[YLT] REV 20:10 and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where {are} the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night - to the ages/aion of the ages/aion.

Aion by itself might not always mean forever, but the phrase "aionas ton aionon", clearly means forever, in every usage. If not then it renders the Bible incapable of ever referring to forever. "Aionas ton aionon" occurs 18 times in the Greek New Testament. Let's assume that it means, "but not forever", and see what happens to the translations:

He will reign over the house of Jacob, but not forever, and His kingdom will have no end.
Luke 1:33

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and but not forever.
Hebrews 13:8

For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed, but not forever.
Romans 1:25

...whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed, but not forever.
Romans 9:5

To Him be the glory, but not forever.
Romans 11:36

...to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory, but not forever. Amen.
Romans 16:27

...according to the will of our God and Father, to whom be the glory, but not forever more.
Galatians 1:5

Now to our God and Father be the glory, but not forever.
Philippians 4:20

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory, but not forever.
1 Timothy 1:17

...to Him be the glory, but not forever.
2 Timothy 4:18

...through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory, but not forever.
Hebrews 13:8

...Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion, but not forever.
1 Peter 4:11

To Him be dominion, but not forever.
1 Peter 5:11

=============================================

So if "aionas ton aionon" does not mean forever and ever then the Bible can never refer to forever.

 

[gasman64]

Aion by itself might not always mean forever, but the phrase "aionas ton aionon", clearly means forever, in every usage. If not then it renders the Bible incapable of ever referring to forever. "Aionas ton aionon" occurs 18 times in the Greek New Testament. Let's assume that it means, "but not forever", and see what happens to the translations:

He will reign over the house of Jacob, but not forever, and His kingdom will have no end.
Luke 1:33

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and but not forever.
Hebrews 13:8

For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed, but not forever.
Romans 1:25

...whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed, but not forever.
Romans 9:5

To Him be the glory, but not forever.
Romans 11:36

...to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory, but not forever. Amen.
Romans 16:27

...according to the will of our God and Father, to whom be the glory, but not forever more.
Galatians 1:5

Now to our God and Father be the glory, but not forever.
Philippians 4:20

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory, but not forever.
1 Timothy 1:17

...to Him be the glory, but not forever.
2 Timothy 4:18

...through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory, but not forever.
Hebrews 13:8

...Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion, but not forever.
1 Peter 4:11

To Him be dominion, but not forever.
1 Peter 5:11

=============================================

So if "aionas ton aionon" does not mean forever and ever then the Bible can never refer to forever.

No....It means age of the ages...From one age to the next. The word eternal means 'unchanging'. Each age will be different and therefore cannot be unchanging. And you are now getting way off track from the original question posed.

 

[Hillsage]

Aion by itself might not always mean forever, but the phrase "aionas ton aionon", clearly means forever, in every usage. If not then it renders the Bible incapable of ever referring to forever. "Aionas ton aionon" occurs 18 times in the Greek New Testament. Let's assume that it means, "but not forever", and see what happens to the translations:

I'd like to just deal with the first verse you mentioned, just to establish the 'principle' of my answer to all the verses you quoted.

[YLT] LUK 1:33 and he shall reign over the house of Jacob to the ages; and of his reign there shall be no end.'

This verse indicates that the previous ages (periods of time) have not only ended (that's why 'ages' is in the plural) but they will ultimately all end...for that is the definition of 'an age'...a 'period of time'. But that in no way indicates an end of God's reign in 'eternity' which is outside of time as well as "the ages". God is also beyond the beginning of the 'first age'. Indeed the best Greek word to correlate to our word 'eternity' is not even aion, but aidios.

ROM 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal/aidios power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

0126 aidios: everduring (forward and backward, or forward only)

Let me again paste, 'in part', a previous quote.

In his book God‘s Methods with Man, G. Campbell Morgan (scholar, associate of D.L. Moody, and a highly respected expositor of Scrip-ture), said: The strongest Scripture word used with refer-ence to the existence of God, is "unto the ages of the ages", which does not literally mean eternally.

To be consistent in your analogy I would think that if the last age indicates eternity future, then consistency would mandate an eternal age before the ages began. But then we have a problem with God existing BEFORE the ages in the following verse. This eternal age backward is not even alluded to...nor does it need to be IMO.

[YLT] 1CO 2:7 but we speak the hidden wisdom of God in a secret, that God foreordained before the ages to our glory,

 

[gasman64]

Nicely put Hillsage.

 

[he-man]

Indeed the best Greek word to correlate to our word 'eternity' is not even aion, but aidios.
ROM 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal/aidios power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
0126 aidios: everduring (forward and backward, or forward only)

,,
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perpetual, everlasting, eternal, timeless, everliving = &#945;&#953;&#974;&#957;&#953;&#959;&#962;

Rom 1:20 For the unseeable things of Him from the creation of the world are plainly seen, being understood by the things that are made, His 'keeping due measure' of power and divinity; by that, they are without apologies:

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[Norah63]

After reading the OP, then all the others, seems not many believe in hell as eternal, or otherwise.
Everyone will believe it as they want to interpetet it.
Guess no one wants to go there, so if it ain't so, no worries...
My advice would be to pray and ask you heavenly Father for the truth.
Only personal revelation can give you peace of mind on the question.

 

[BornOfWaterAndSpirit]

Because they use their human reasoning for doctrines, not the Bible. If you have any doubts about Hell, I urge you to read Luke 16 (although this is talking about Hades, it still refutes "soul sleep" false doctrine and God being "too loving" to torture unrepentant sinners), Revelation 14, and Revelation 21-22.

 

[Timothew]

Because they use their human reasoning for doctrines, not the Bible.

No...

Here is a simple list of 53 biblical reasons the lost perish and are not tortured forever in hell:
1
Matt 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
This says destruction, not eternal torment.

2
Matthew 10:28
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Body and Soul will be destroyed in hell. Not burned alive forever in hell.

3
Matthew 13:30
First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up,
The greek word that is used is katakausai, which comes from katakaio, and it means to consume by burning, burn down. The tares are gone after they burned. The meaning is the same as in the last 2 verses, that the wicked will be destroyed. As Jesus says in verse 40,
So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.

Just as the tares are destroyed by burning, the wicked people will be destroyed by burning, at the end of the age.

4
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Here, the greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which comes from the word apollumi, and means "to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish. Apoleisthe is the future tense form of apollumi which means will be utterly destroyed or will be killed.
What apoleisthe does not mean is "will be tortured alive forever."

Jesus says that the end for the unrighteous will be the same as for those in the days of Noah (Matthew 17:27), "the flood came and destroyed them all" (not tortured).
and it will be the same as for Sodom (verse 29) "destroyed them" (not tortured).

5
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
So either a person receives eternal life, or they perish. They die. They are not burned alive forever, they just perish.

6
John 5:24, Jesus said
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
He has passed from death into life, eternal life. Jesus did not say 'Whoever believes has passed from eternal life being tortured in hell to eternal life with no torture'.

7
John 8:21
Then He said again to them, “I go away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin; where I am going, you cannot come."
Jesus said they would die in their sin, not be burned alive forever.

8
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Note: Death, not eternal torment.

9
1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
Destroy, not torture alive forever.

10
Galations 6:8
For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption (phthoran), but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
phthoran: From phtheiro; decay, i.e. Ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively) -- corruption, destroy, perish.
The one who sows to his own flesh reaps destruction, not eternal living torment.

11
2 Thessalonians 1:9
These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
Destruction, not eternal living torment. The greek word is olethron: destruction.
From a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruin, i.e. Death, punishment -- destruction.

12
Hebrews 10:26-27,
For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES
Here it says the fire consumes the adversaries. They are burned up, not eternally alive and burning, but consumed.

13
Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.


14
James 1:15
and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.
Death, not eternal torture.

15
James 4:12
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy;
Destroy, not eternally torture.

16
2 Peter 2:1
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
Destruction, not eternal torment.

17
2 Peter 3:7-9
But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
Peter tells what will happen to ungodly men, they will be judged and then destroyed. All ungodly men will perish unless they repent.

18
1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
How can those without life be living forever in a lake of fire?

19
Jude 5
Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.

20
Jude 10
But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.

21
Revelation 2:11
He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
The living and the dead will be judged on the last day. Those in Christ will not experience the second death. Those not in Christ will experience a second death. This second death is their destruction.

22
Revelation 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.

23
Revelation 18:8
For this reason in one day her plagues will come, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong.
The greek word katakauthesetai comes from katakaio and means utterly burnt up, destroyed, not eternally burned alive. (The greek is future passive indicative tense, therefore it is the word katakauthesetai).

24
Revelation 20:14-15
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
John interprets this for us, the lake of fire is the second death. If anyones name is not in the book of life, he experiences the second death. This is exactly what it says, death. It is not eternal living torment.

25
Revelation 21:8
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
They will undergo the second death, which means they are dead.

The proof is written in large letters throughout the bible. After the first sin, what was the promised consequence? God said that it was death. God didn't tell them that they would be given eternal life being tormented in hell. If eternal torture in hell is the consequence, it is jarringly missing from any statement by God to Adam and Eve. God even barred Adam and Eve from the garden to prevent them eating from the tree of life and living forever. Paul explains this: Romans 6:23, The wages of sin is death. This is obvious, Paul said what the wages of sin is and it is not to be burned alive forever after you are dead.

26
Ezekiel 18:4 The soul who sins will die.

27
Psalm 1:4-6
Not so the wicked!
They are like chaff
that the wind blows away.
Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.
For the LORD watches over the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.

28
Psalm 2:11-12
Serve the LORD with fear
and celebrate his rule with trembling.
Kiss his son, or he will be angry
and your way will lead to your destruction,

29
Psalm 5:6
you destroy those who tell lies.

30
Psalm 9:3
My enemies turn back;
they stumble and perish before you.

31
Psalm 9:5
You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked;
you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.

32
Psalm 9:6
even the memory of them has perished.

33
Psalm 21:9
When you appear for battle,
you will burn them up as in a blazing furnace.
The LORD will swallow them up in his wrath,
and his fire will consume them.

34
Psalm 34:16
but the face of the LORD is against those who do evil,
to blot out their name from the earth.

35
Psalm 36:12
See how the evildoers lie fallen—
thrown down, not able to rise!

36
Psalm 37:1-2
Do not fret because of those who are evil
or be envious of those who do wrong;
for like the grass they will soon wither,
like green plants they will soon die away.

37
Psalm 37:9
For those who are evil will be destroyed,

38
Psalm 37:20
But the wicked will perish:
Though the LORD’s enemies are like the flowers of the field,
they will be consumed, they will go up in smoke.

39
Psalm 37:22
those he curses will be destroyed

40
Psalm 37:28
Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed

41
Psalm 37:34
when the wicked are destroyed, you will see it.

42
Psalm 37:38
But all sinners will be destroyed;
there will be no future for the wicked.

43
Malachi 4:1-3
For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,” says the LORD of hosts, “so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.” “But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall. You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says the LORD of hosts.

44
Isaiah 66:16
For the LORD will execute judgment by fire
And by His sword on all flesh,
And those slain by the LORD will be many.

45 and 46
Genesis 2:17 and 3:19
but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die...
And to dust you shall return. (Genesis 5:5 Adam lived 930 years, and then he died.)

47
Psalm 49:12-14
But man in his pomp will not endure;
He is like the beasts that perish.
This is the way of those who are foolish,
And of those after them who approve their words.
As sheep they are appointed for Sheol;
Death shall be their shepherd;
And the upright shall rule over them in the morning,
And their form shall be for Sheol to consume
So that they have no habitation.

48
Psalm 50:22
Now consider this, you who forget God,
Or I will tear you in pieces, and there will be none to deliver.

49
Psalm 54:5
He will recompense the evil to my foes;
Destroy them in Your faithfulness.

50
Psalm 56:13
For You have delivered my soul from death,
Indeed my feet from stumbling,
So that I may walk before God
In the light of the living.

51
2 Corinthians 15-16
For we are a fragrance of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing; to the one an aroma from death to death, to the other an aroma from life to life.

52
for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2 Cor 3:6

53
2 Cor 7:10
For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

 

[Albion]

No...

Here is a simple list of 53 biblical reasons the lost perish and are not tortured forever in hell:

Of course there's also a list of Biblical reasons why the lost are not annihilated.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

After reading the OP, then all the others, seems not many believe in hell as eternal, or otherwise.
Everyone will believe it as they want to interpetet it.
Guess no one wants to go there, so if it ain't so, no worries...
My advice would be to pray and ask you heavenly Father for the truth.
Only personal revelation can give you peace of mind on the question.

Does anyone here have that?

.

 

[Fascinated With God]

I'd like to just deal with the first verse you mentioned, just to establish the 'principle' of my answer to all the verses you quoted.

[YLT] LUK 1:33 and he shall reign over the house of Jacob to the ages; and of his reign there shall be no end.'

This verse indicates that the previous ages (periods of time) have not only ended (that's why 'ages' is in the plural) but they will ultimately all end...for that is the definition of 'an age'...a 'period of time'. But that in no way indicates an end of God's reign in 'eternity' which is outside of time as well as "the ages".

You got me, I made a mistake including that verse because it does not says, "aionas ton aionon". But I noticed that you did not address any of the actual 18 occuranes of "aionas ton aionon" that I listed. That speaks volumes for the strength of your case.

God is also beyond the beginning of the 'first age'. Indeed the best Greek word to correlate to our word 'eternity' is not even aion, but aidios.

ROM 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal/aidios power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

0126 aidios: everduring (forward and backward, or forward only)

There are only two occurances of the aidios. Are you seriously asserting that that is it, there are only two references in the entire NT to forever?

Let me again paste, 'in part', a previous quote.

In his book God‘s Methods with Man, G. Campbell Morgan (scholar, associate of D.L. Moody, and a highly respected expositor of Scrip-ture), said: The strongest Scripture word used with refer-ence to the existence of God, is "unto the ages of the ages", which does not literally mean eternally.

If that is true then please address some of the occurances of "aionas ton aionon" that I will repost at the end this post.

To be consistent in your analogy I would think that if the last age indicates eternity future, then consistency would mandate an eternal age before the ages began. But then we have a problem with God existing BEFORE the ages in the following verse. This eternal age backward is not even alluded to...nor does it need to be IMO.

[YLT] 1CO 2:7 but we speak the hidden wisdom of God in a secret, that God foreordained before the ages to our glory,

Once again this is not "aionas ton aionon", it is only a singular occurance of aion. Your total avoidance of addressing any verse that say "aionas ton aionon" speaks volumes.

So here it is again, all the occurances of "aionas ton aionon" (except in Revelation). Please address at least one of these:


Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and but not forever.
Hebrews 13:8

For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed, but not forever.
Romans 1:25

...whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed, but not forever.
Romans 9:5

To Him be the glory, but not forever.
Romans 11:36

...to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory, but not forever. Amen.
Romans 16:27

...according to the will of our God and Father, to whom be the glory, but not forever more.
Galatians 1:5

Now to our God and Father be the glory, but not forever.
Philippians 4:20

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory, but not forever.
1 Timothy 1:17

...to Him be the glory, but not forever.
2 Timothy 4:18

...through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory, but not forever.
Hebrews 13:8

...Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion, but not forever.
1 Peter 4:11

 

[Hillsage]

You got me, I made a mistake including that verse because it does not says, "aionas ton aionon". But I noticed that you did not address any of the actual 18 occuranes of "aionas ton aionon" that I listed. That speaks volumes for the strength of your case.

< Staff Edit> I do thank you for your admission.
​

There are only two occurances of the aidios. Are you seriously asserting that that is it, there are only two references in the entire NT to forever?

Well, if you want to agree with He-Man's definition of Aidios, then I guess we'd have to say there weren't ANY verses pertaining to eternity. Such is the trouble with 'expert' advice concerning the things of God.

If that is true then please address some of the occurances of "aionas ton aionon" that I will repost at the end this post.

Why should "age of the ages" be a mystery and require interpretation? Is it not a biblical expression like many others like it? Consider the following; "King of kings and Lord of lords", "holy and most holy", "Song of songs," "Vanity of vanities", ect. ect. Do you have a problem understanding any of these expressions? It simply refers to the final and greatest age that God's plan is consummated in. A more in depth answer would require reading a book such as I posted earlier and will "post again". He is an accepted biblical expert quoting his/my opinion. No doubt you have one supporting your 11 verse POV too...you just haven't backed your position with his credentials yet.

Once again, here's mine...for what it is worth.
In his book God&#8216;s Methods with Man, G. Campbell Morgan (scholar, associate of D.L. Moody, and a highly respected expositor of Scrip-ture), said: The strongest Scripture word used with refer-ence to the existence of God, is "unto the ages of the ages", which does not literally mean eternally.

 

[Timothew]

Of course there's also a list of Biblical reasons why the lost are not annihilated.

But Bornof said "Because they use their human reasoning for doctrines, not the Bible." I showed that his statement was not true. We haven't said that you use human reasoning to show that the wages of sin is not death but eternal torture instead. If we had, then your list would apply, but one or two verses which seem at first to support your position shouldn't trump all of the verses that support conditional immortality. The bible specifically says that the lost are destroyed and will be no more. If you believe that this isn't true, first you have to show how the bible was wrong when it said they are to be destroyed.

 

[Norah63]

What about hell is unsettling to anyone that doesn't believe in it anyway?
Is there any disagreement between those who only want, and have let Jesus pay the price so that they will be in heaven?
If all are going to heaven sooner or later where is the discussion going?
Is it just a timeline difference?
There can't be 'right' fighting, if everyone is right.

 

[Timothew]

What about hell is unsettling to anyone that doesn't believe in it anyway?

If there is no hell of eternal torment, then it is unsettling to be told that God is going to torment people in hell forever. If someone told me that you were going to torture someone forever and ever and I knew that you weren't going to do that, I would stick up for and say "Hey, Norah is no torturer!" It's the same thing with God. It makes me angry when people say horrible things about Him. (Like, he set up a place where his enemies could be tortured forever.)