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A Real Man Is...

1234321

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I think it would be interesting to talk about what a real man is, from a philosophical point of view (overall view,) as well as the misconceptions and cliches that are attributed to a "real man."

Personally, I think the misconception about real man (especially in the West) is someone with brawn, logic, reason, [a lot of] his own money/job, preferably sexually virile, confident and charismatic. These are more or less all great qualities to describe a man, but it usually stops there. Moreover, these seem to define the archetypal man, leaving others with more (or less) than these qualities to be described as less than a man. For example, a lot of men in the west are turning violent, and doing other drastic activity (such as theft, murder, suicide, etc.) because of the economy. Money is a large definer in Western masculinity - the ability to provide for one's family. But, the same man suffering in this economy could be intelligent, motivated, charismatic, logical, reasonable, etc. Yet, a loss of one of these "standards" causes him to feel inadequate.


To me, a man is logical, sensitive, reasonable, patient, loving, caring, strong mentally, a leader, intelligent, wise, cunning, courageous and confident. These traits are independent of physical or financial status. Muscles fade, bones break, and money melts and burns. But, to me, these qualities would last - from rich to poor, peak fitness to sickness - in a real man.

What about you?
 

1234321

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I don't really see why any of these things should be necessarily associated with being a man.

Why not just have them be indicators of good/competent people?

Because you can have a good/competent child, and a good/competent adult (man/woman.) There are certain traits that categorically separate the former from the latter. Some people grow up, many people just get older.
 
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Gadarene

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Because you can have a good/competent child, and a good/competent adult (man/woman.) There are certain traits that categorically separate the former from the latter. Some people grow up, many people just get older.

And yet which of those listed traits are inapplicable to any other grouping than "is a man", in order to justify making that distinction in the first place?

None of them are. None of them would necessarily distinguish a child from an adult either - the obvious difference there is one of age, which is not a character trait.
 
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1234321

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And yet which of those listed traits are inapplicable to any other grouping than "is a man", in order to justify making that distinction in the first place?

None of them are. None of them would necessarily distinguish a child from an adult either - the obvious difference there is one of age, which is not a character trait.

Thank you for highlighting a point I wanted to make. Age doesn't matter - state of mind does. There are some "children" that are "adults" in child bodies, and some "adults" that are really children in adult bodies. I am highlighting traits of adult men. We can, by contrast, talk about traits of a child (if you truly think there is no difference between an adult male/man, and a child[like] male. A few examples of a child mind, more colloquially understood as immature, is pride, selfishness, dependent, impatient, fantastical, and myopic. These traits describe many adult males, but are tantamount to a child mind.

That is why the attributes listed (patience, love, caring, cunning, logic, etc.) are attributes of a MAN, as opposed to a male child, no matter the age.
 
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Gadarene

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Thank you for highlighting a point I wanted to make. Age doesn't matter - state of mind does. There are some "children" that are "adults" in child bodies, and some "adults" that are really children in adult bodies. I am highlighting traits of adult men. We can, by contrast, talk about traits of a child (if you truly think there is no difference between an adult male/man, and a child[like] male. A few examples of a child mind, more colloquially understood as immature, is pride, selfishness, dependent, impatient, fantastical, and myopic. These traits describe many adult males, but are tantamount to a child mind.

That is why the attributes listed (patience, love, caring, cunning, logic, etc.) are attributes of a MAN, as opposed to a male child, no matter the age.

But not exclusively so, so why bother to describe them as qualities of real/good/competent/whatever men? Why not, as I initially suggested, simply describe it in terms of traits that make good people, rather than good men?
 
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1234321

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But not exclusively so, so why bother to describe them as qualities of real/good/competent/whatever men? Why not, as I initially suggested, simply describe it in terms of traits that make good people, rather than good men?

What you keep saying is "good/competent/real" are, by your own grammar and syntax, interchangeable. It is semantics. A "good" man is not an immature, impatient, illogical, unloving, uncaring, fantastic man. A competent man is not an immature, impatient, illogical, unloving, selfish, reasonable man. These qualities are not what make the man (though, he may experience some of these as shortcomings.)

Now, an bad/incompetent man can be a man that is brute, wealthy, sexually virile, confident and charismatic. That is why there is a distinction. The distinctions between a real/good/competent man are categorically different than that of a male. Sociologically, there is a very big difference between a male, and a man.

Ask your opposite sex: there is a very large difference between a "real/good" man, and a "little boy in a man's body." Likewise, there is a difference between a "real/good" woman, as opposed to a "little girl in a woman's body." And, it is important as a human race to distinguish these types if we wish to understand the nature of "good" and "bad" in the first place. If we accept that all men are [socioeconomically/psychologically] good men, then there is no incentive to strive to be anything "good/real/competent" in the first place. If money makes a man a real/good man (in the psychological sense of one to be desired,) there is no incentive to be loving, intelligent, caring, etc.

The main point I am trying to make is a man's qualities are not based on ephemeral distinctions like money, physical prowess, sexual virility, and the likes. It is based on life-lasting attributes. Now, what one believes is a good/real/competent attribute determines what one believes is a real/good/competent man (or woman, but we are talking about men.)
 
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SithDoughnut

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What about you?

A man in terms of sex is someone who has an X and a Y chromosome.

A man in terms of gender is someone who identifies with masculine properties. The exact masculine properties differ between societies, but if someone considers themselves to match up more closely with those properties than with those of a different gender identity, they are a man.
 
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Gadarene

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The main point I am trying to make is a man's qualities are not based on ephemeral distinctions like money, physical prowess, sexual virility, and the likes. It is based on life-lasting attributes. Now, what one believes is a good/real/competent attribute determines what one believes is a real/good/competent man (or woman, but we are talking about men.)

Which is fine, but my original point is still there. I don't see any point in labelling these properties as being of a real man any more than they are of a real woman, so why bother to gender it....
 
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jpcedotal

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I absolutely oppose trying to blend the sexes into the generic person. There are legitimate differences between man and woman other than physical traits.

There are also Scriptural responsibilities that are gender oriented as well. Why has the family broken down so? Men are remaining boys too long....period
 
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quatona

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I think it would be interesting to talk about what a real man is, from a philosophical point of view (overall view,) as well as the misconceptions and cliches that are attributed to a "real man."
Are you talking about "real man" as opposed to "unreal man" or as opposed to "real woman"?
 
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1234321

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So if I was "logical, sensitive, reasonable, patient, loving, caring, strong mentally, a leader, intelligent, wise, cunning, courageous and confident" would it make me a real man too? ;)

Those are just some of the qualities a man should have, IMO. But, if you do have those qualities, you would IMO be more "man" than many males that call themselves men hehe...

In reality, those traits (and others) that I would say make a male a [mature] man are some of the the same ones that make a female a [mature] woman.
 
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1234321

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Are you talking about "real man" as opposed to "unreal man" or as opposed to "real woman"?

Are you being facetious?

I am talking about a man, as opposed to an adult boy, get it?

It is psychological and sociological. Although, your question does raise a point about effeminate men, and masculine women, hegemony, gender roles, and socially constructed gender paradigms. I don't want to get into all of that, necessarily. I am talking about what makes a male a man - implying responsibility, maturity, accountability, and transparency.
 
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Gadarene

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Are you being facetious?

I am talking about a man, as opposed to an adult boy, get it?

It is psychological and sociological. Although, your question does raise a point about effeminate men, and masculine women, hegemony, gender roles, and socially constructed gender paradigms. I don't want to get into all of that, necessarily. I am talking about what makes a male a man - implying responsibility, maturity, accountability, and transparency.

So you don't want to talk about a socially constructed gender paradigm, you just want to construct one yourself?
 
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1234321

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Which is fine, but my original point is still there. I don't see any point in labelling these properties as being of a real man any more than they are of a real woman, so why bother to gender it....

Because some males are not MEN, which implies a certain amount of moral, patriarchal, and social responsibility. There are forty-year-old males that live like what one would expect a 10-year-old boy to live. Likewise, there are 10-year-old MEN that live how a forty-year-old man should live.

Do you think a male or woman that is selfish, pompous, arrogant, unloving, uncaring, illogical, unreasonable, and dependent on something/someone else should be parents? Should a typical 12-year-old Western young boy/girl be a parent? What qualifies someone as competent enough to be a parent, or live on his/her own, or provide a rich and meaningful contribution to society? Do you understand there will always be,and shouldbe distinctions between what a [mature/good/competent/real] man/woman is?
 
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Gadarene

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I said I don't necessarily want to, because some people cant even handle the one I have constructed.

Only because there is no reason to limit it to one gender. And that's something we appear to be in agreement on, so I've no idea why the fuss.
 
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