A Real Man Is...

[1234321]

...so I've no idea why the fuss.

Perhaps because of your pert comments?

 

[1234321]

A real man is a man of God, and who takes care of his household.

Hmmm...

Well a man of God has the Fruits of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, tolerance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.


Now, as a woman, please tell me what kind of man takes care of his household, and why you believe this is important in a "real" man, as opposed to a grown boy?

 

[Gadarene]

Perhaps because of your pert comments?

Right, of course. Couldn't be that you were just unclear in the first instance and unaware of the spectacular volume of "Real Man" codswallop already out there that either describes things that not all men are or are applicable to more than one gender.

 

[1234321]

I absolutely oppose trying to blend the sexes into the generic person. There are legitimate differences between man and woman other than physical traits.

There are also Scriptural responsibilities that are gender oriented as well. Why has the family broken down so? Men are remaining boys too long....period

This is part of my point: could you please expand on this (if you don't mind.)

 

[Gadarene]

Well a man of God has the Fruits of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, tolerance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

As do many men who dispense with the idea of God.

 

[1234321]

Right, of course. Couldn't be that you were just unclear in the first instance and unaware of the spectacular volume of "Real Man" codswallop already out there that either describes things that not all men are or are applicable to more than one gender.

Well, then that settles it. It is my fault for being nebulous.

So, since we in agreement with most everything, our conversation is over right?

 

[iamauthentic]

Jesus is the epitome of a real man. a man who is in love with His Savior and lets Him live thru him is the closest thing to be a real man. IMO

 

[quatona]

Are you being facetious?

I am talking about a man, as opposed to an adult boy, get it?

So what is the reason you are talking about males, specifically?

It is psychological and sociological. Although, your question does raise a point about effeminate men, and masculine women, hegemony, gender roles, and socially constructed gender paradigms. I don't want to get into all of that, necessarily. I am talking about what makes a male a man - implying responsibility, maturity, accountability, and transparency.

I find that an odd approach. Personally, I would ask myself: "What traits do I value?", and I would value them in male and female adults alike.

 

[1234321]

So what is the reason you are talking about males, specifically?

Because I am a male, and I have observed the topic of the philosophical discussion at hand. I have also had many girlfriends in my youth that have informed me what they [rightfully so] expect from a man, and not a little boy. I cannot say what a female should be because I am not female (though, since I know myself, I know what kind of female I would want to be a mate for me.)

Also, because the Western world is a male-dominated hegemony, a lot of the problems in false images of success, family, happiness, etc. begin with men. I could have easily said what makes a real woman, but I wanted to implore males to speak on what they thought makes a real man, and it would at the same time highlight the possible solutions and problems within our society.

I find that an odd approach. Personally, I would ask myself: "What traits do I value?", and I would value them in male and female adults alike.

Males and females can make your common Venn Diagram. They both should have similar valued qualities (selflessness, reasoning/wisdom, love, caring, etc.) However, it is undeniable that there are exclusive non-physical attributes that are shared within males and females. Like someone said before, a man takes care of the household. What does that mean? Does it mean he provides monetary security while he has sex with every other woman? Does it mean showing no emotion, but everyone has food to eat, and a warm bed? What do people believe is a real man, and what does it mean are some of the questions I am trying to dig into. Some people have to look outward to find value in themselves. Does this make them less than a man/woman, even if they find and hold on to the value? Are you more of a man for being able to look inward? Et cetera...

 

[Illuminaughty]

I absolutely oppose trying to blend the sexes into the generic person. There are legitimate differences between man and woman other than physical traits.

Then there is no need to mold people in the direction of traditional gender roles then right?. If such roles are an inherent part of a females nature they will simply show up regardless of what we do. If you have to demand women follow traditional roles than that's evidence of that role not being natural. There would be no need for demand if it were. Most everyone is different. Women don't all fit into the same cookie cutter pattern. You can really only speak of probabilities there.

 

[Received]

Are you being facetious?

I am talking about a man, as opposed to an adult boy, get it?

It is psychological and sociological. Although, your question does raise a point about effeminate men, and masculine women, hegemony, gender roles, and socially constructed gender paradigms. I don't want to get into all of that, necessarily. I am talking about what makes a male a man - implying responsibility, maturity, accountability, and transparency.

It's not psychological and sociological so much as it is cultural (which is arguably nearly indistinguishable from sociology).

So what makes a man is relative to the cultural views you hold. With Latino culture, the masculine ideal is machismo; with upper-class white males, it's businesslike and likely scattered on emotional expression. Those are near-glosses, but you get the point.

So I wonder if it's a purely comprehensible question to ask, "what makes a male?" without also asking, "what males a male according to X culture?"

 

[quatona]

They both should have similar valued qualities (selflessness, reasoning/wisdom, love, caring, etc.) However, it is undeniable that there are exclusive non-physical attributes that are shared within males and females.

Well, since you have declared this undeniable I guess there´s no point in having a discussion about it.

 

[1234321]

It's not psychological and sociological so much as it is cultural (which is arguably nearly indistinguishable from sociology).

So what makes a man is relative to the cultural views you hold. With Latino culture, the masculine ideal is machismo; with upper-class white males, it's businesslike and likely scattered on emotional expression. Those are near-glosses, but you get the point.

So I wonder if it's a purely comprehensible question to ask, "what makes a male?" without also asking, "what males a male according to X culture?"

I agree that it is cultural, which is why I am trying to [first] begin with the "Western Man." No doubt the West claims to be a melting pot, however there is an inherent "Western culture," (whatever that means/what I am getting at) that drives people in the society we call The West to align themselves with who they think they are (as a loser, boy, man, male, etc.)

For example, a 1920's common Italian mobster may have been considered the epitome of a man at that time. The Malboro Man is the image of a Man's man for some people. John Wayne for other people. Even a Pimp is considered a man to some people. What is it (inclusively or exclusively) that makes people identify a male a man, with all of its connotations?

 

[Received]

I agree that it is cultural, which is why I am trying to [first] begin with the "Western Man." No doubt the West claims to be a melting pot, however there is an inherent "Western culture," (whatever that means/what I am getting at) that drives people in the society we call The West to align themselves with who they think they are (as a loser, boy, man, male, etc.)

For example, a 1920's common Italian mobster may have been considered the epitome of a man at that time. The Malboro Man is the image of a Man's man for some people. John Wayne for other people. What is it (inclusively or exclusively) that makes people identify a male a man, with all of its connotations?

I don't know if, precisely because of the melting pot you mentioned, that there is any unified concept of a "Western man." I imagine you could put together some difficult-to-find statistical data and create concepts based on popularity, in which case the typical Western male would be individualistic (but usually secretly collectivistic), materialistic, and usually involved in activities he doesn't know how to valuate according to how much it may contribute to his happiness.

As for an ideal Western man, that's exactly assuming my own ideal, therefore my own culture. Now, I'm not going to say at all that all cultures are equally valid, which to me would mean that each culture is equally competent at having its values allow its members to attain the same level of happiness. But I would say that, looking at the research, the happiest Western male is the one who isn't much of a well-defined masculine male at all -- the androgynous specimen is best, and that's where I try to live my life as well. It's the concept of the Western man as one approaching the caricature of masculinity that's also receding from happiness. The same goes with females and femininity.

 

[Paradoxum]

Those are just some of the qualities a man should have, IMO. But, if you do have those qualities, you would IMO be more "man" than many males that call themselves men hehe...

In reality, those traits (and others) that I would say make a male a [mature] man are some of the the same ones that make a female a [mature] woman.

Perhaps you are talking about what makes someone mature and virtuous, rather than specifically manly. Maybe a man must be mature before he can be a real man, but women can be mature and virtuous too.

Is there a difference between a real man and a real women? I don't know.

 

[1234321]

Perhaps you are talking about what makes someone mature and virtuous, rather than specifically manly. Maybe a man must be mature before he can be a real man, but women can be mature and virtuous too.

Is there a difference between a real man and a real women? I don't know.

No, I am trying to challenge the idea of manliness. There is such a thing, but is it necessarily the colloquial man?

There are distinct differences between males and females, besides physical attributes. There are also distinct differences between what makes someone a male/female, and a man/woman - as in, a true adult.

Money does not make someone an adult, otherwise, plenty of celebrity kids would be adults.

Power does not make someone an adult, otherwise, plenty of dictators' children would be adults.

Adulthood demands maturity and virtuosity. It demands responsibility, independence and several other traits of virtuosity. Is an adult man someone that has a good job, provides for his family, makes sure there is food on the table, but embezzles money to do this? Is a man an adult male that is loving, caring, considerate, selfless, but has no money or house? Is an adult woman someone that nurtures, takes care of the family, works, volunteers, but cheats on her husband? Where is the line drawn between boy and man, girl and woman? What is acceptable to call an adult man - pimp, athlete, banker, gangster, teacher, etc.? What makes them MAN?

A pimp can be virtuous and mature about his business of whoring out women, or can he? Can a contract killer with a high moral code that includes not killing innocents be considered a man?

I think it goes beyond culture, and hits more on the inherent qualifications in a male (or female.) What attributes are indicative of a man (or woman) cross-culture?

I do think there is a difference between a real man and real woman, but many of the attributes overlap.

 

[Gadarene]

There are distinct differences between males and females, besides physical attributes.

Which differences are they?

 

[jayem]

I'm only speaking in the broadest of generalities, because there is much individual variation, and overlap. Men are task driven, whereas women are relationship driven--particularly regarding their relationships with other women. A man's concern is to get his job done. A woman is concerned with her position in the group. Obviously, many men are quite hierarchical, and focused on gaining rank. But a lot of men will be satisfied with simply having a secure place as a member of the gang. I think a woman is more likely to want to rise in status, and will attempt to improve her position.

 

[juvenissun]

I absolutely oppose trying to blend the sexes into the generic person. There are legitimate differences between man and woman other than physical traits.

There are also Scriptural responsibilities that are gender oriented as well. Why has the family broken down so? Men are remaining boys too long....period

A real man is the head of his woman.

For example, Bill Clinton, is not likely a real man.

 

[1234321]

A real man is the head of his woman.

For example, Bill Clinton, is not likely a real man.

See, this is what I am getting at.

For all intents and purposes, the former president of the States would be considered "The Man." However, you say that (I assume) even though he was the leader of the "free world," in a position of power, had money, provided for his family, his infidelity disqualified him as a real man. Please, and respectfully, correct me if I am wrong. If I am right, why does infidelity "disqualify" a male from being a real man?