Eternal Fire SAVES not TORTURES (2)

[Timothew]

I didn't say it's a parable. It isn't. Jesus didn't make up horror stories.

Jesus told parables. The parable of Lazarus and the rich man is one of them.

 

[dollarsbill]

No proof of rich man account being a parable. Zero.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by dollarsbill I didn't say it's a parable. It isn't. Jesus didn't make up horror stories.

Jesus told parables. The parable of Lazarus and the rich man is one of them.

No proof of rich man account being a parable. Zero.

We are well aware of your view of that by now.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program........

 

[Timothew]

No proof of rich man account being a parable. Zero.

This is not true.

Parable:
A story, usually short and simple, that illustrates a lesson.
Some of the most famous parables are those in the New Testament.
parable - definition and examples of parables

1. Jesus told parables.
2. Lazarus and the Rich Man is a story in the New Testament.
3. The story is short and simple.
4. The story illustrates a lesson.
5. "Lazarus and the Rich Man" is included in many if not all of the lists of the parables of Jesus.

According to the definition of parable, "Lazarus and The Rich Man" is a parable.

 

[dollarsbill]

No NT parable uses literal people.

 

[Timothew]

No NT parable uses literal people.

This is not true.
The Parable of "Lazarus and the Rich Man" does.

 

[dollarsbill]

This is not true.
The Parable of "Lazarus and the Rich Man" does.

Opinion does not make it a parable. It neither says nor implies it is a parable.

 

[Timothew]

Opinion does not make it a parable. It neither says nor implies it is a parable.

By the definition of a parable, it is a parable.

 

[dollarsbill]

Annihilationists MUST make this a parable to fit their beliefs. It is not.

Luke 16:22-28 (NASB)
22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 ~'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.' 27 "And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house— 28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Annihilationists MUST make this a parable to fit their beliefs. It is not.
.'

Take that to the appropriate thread

http://www.christianforums.com/t7603478/
The Case for Annihilationism

 

[Leggomyegolas]

By the definition of a parable, it is a parable.

By comparison to Jesus' other, undisputed parables, it isn't.

 

[Timothew]

Annihilationists MUST make this a parable to fit their beliefs. It is not.

Luke 16:22-28 (NASB)
22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 ~'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.' 27 "And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house— 28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

Eternal tormentalists must insist that this is not a parable to fit their beliefs. This bible passage doesn't even talk about eternal torment (the parable talks about torment, but not eternal torment), so it is really a lost case for them. The bible in plain language specifically states in no uncertain terms that the wages of sin is death and the penalty is eternal destruction.

 

[Timothew]

By comparison to Jesus' other, undisputed parables, it isn't.

Check this parable against the definition of parable in any dictionary.
Check to see if this parable is included in lists of parables.

The only time the parable-ness of this parable is disputed is when the eternal tormentalists need it for proof of their doctrine. Nobody else has ever disputed it. Show me an example of anyone disputing that this is a parable without it being in a discussion of hell and eternal torment.

 

[dollarsbill]

Eternal tormentalists must insist that this is not a parable to fit their beliefs. This bible passage doesn't even talk about eternal torment (the parable talks about torment, but not eternal torment), so it is really a lost case for them. The bible in plain language specifically states in no uncertain terms that the wages of sin is death and the penalty is eternal destruction.

Great! If I'm wrong I can't burn in Hell forever.

 

[dollarsbill]

Check this parable against the definition of parable in any dictionary.
Check to see if this parable is included in lists of parables.

The only time the parable-ness of this parable is disputed is when the eternal tormentalists need it for proof of their doctrine. Nobody else has ever disputed it. Show me an example of anyone disputing that this is a parable without it being in a discussion of hell and eternal torment.

He is talking about NT parables. Not worldly definitions of God's Word.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Check this parable against the definition of parable in any dictionary.
Check to see if this parable is included in lists of parables.

The only time the parable-ness of this parable is disputed is when the eternal tormentalists need it for proof of their doctrine. Nobody else has ever disputed it. Show me an example of anyone disputing that this is a parable without it being in a discussion of hell and eternal torment.

Did you get a chance to check out this post concerning the greek use of "parable" in Chapt 15-16

http://www.christianforums.com/t7306890/#post61216727

At the beginning of Jesus' discourse in chapter fifteen of Luke the statement is made that "He spoke this parable unto them, saying," (Lk. 15:3).
The Greek is very definite in making the word for parable clearly a singular noun. It is "the parable this.."

 

[Timothew]

Great! If I'm wrong I can't burn in Hell forever.

Nobody will. Because the wages of sin is death, not burning in hell forever.

Nobody who rejects Jesus Christ's offer of eternal life will receive eternal life.

 

[Timothew]

Did you get a chance to check out this post concerning the greek use of "parable" in Chapt 15-16

http://www.christianforums.com/t7306890/#post61216727

At the beginning of Jesus' discourse in chapter fifteen of Luke the statement is made that "He spoke this parable unto them, saying," (Lk. 15:3).
The Greek is very definite in making the word for parable clearly a singular noun. It is "the parable this.."

I agree.

It is a careless assumption and an unfounded assertion to argue that the story of the rich man and Lazarus is not a parable!

 

[dollarsbill]

Nobody will. Because the wages of sin is death, not burning in hell forever.

Nobody who rejects Jesus Christ's offer of eternal life will receive eternal life.

Emphasis on ETERNAL, NEVER ending:

Matthew 25:41 (NASB)
41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

Matthew 25:46 (NASB)
46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I agree.

It is a careless assumption and an unfounded assertion to argue that the story of the rich man and Lazarus is not a parable!

Do you think that Preston Eby is an annihilationist?

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/abraham/abrahams_bosom.htm

ABRAHAM'S BOSOM

[SIZE=+1]by J. Preston Eby[/SIZE]