PEANUT GALLERY-FORMAL DEBATE-Sabbath for Christians; Obligation or Not?

[Frogster]

But not in Genesis 2:1-3 and not in the New Earth and not today.

The Sabbath as given in Genesis 2 would not be given in animal sacrifice.

in Christ,

Bob

say bob..i notice you have been pasting differet commentators here and about, so i don't suppose u would mind me pasting a bible verse from a NLT bible, that a group of scholars put together, that countless Christians read?
i mean, lets listen to scholars, and look at the not word here.


col 2:16 So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths.

 

[Frogster]

The annual sabbaths given in Lev 23 were based on animal sacrifices from their very inception and as Hebrews 10 states - their sacrifices are ended in the NT - thus they end.

in Christ,

Bob

say bob, is a Christian in sin, if he wears a cotton linen tweed jacket?

Leviticus 19:19

New International Version (NIV)


19 “‘Keep my decrees.
“‘Do not mate different kinds of animals.
“‘Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. “‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

 

[TruthWave7]

say bob, is a Christian in sin, if he wears a cotton linen tweed jacket?

Leviticus 19:19

New International Version (NIV)


19 “‘Keep my decrees.
“‘Do not mate different kinds of animals.
“‘Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. “‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

Here is an example of how TruthWave7 will take apart Frogster.

1. Frogster does not know the difference of authority level between God's Laws. The laws that he quoted above were written by the hand of Moses by the inspiration of God, on parchment and kept on the outside of the Ark of the Covenant. Those laws were dealing with a wider spectrum of situations in the Nation of Israel, most a still good laws to this day, some are not applicable in our modern world as sanitation and other circumstances make them irrelevant.

2. The 10 Commandments were written by the finger of God himself, by passing even Moses. They are divine laws of the highest order in the Universe. All 10 are moral in nature, and transcend the OT and NT. They were stored inside the Ark of the Covenant.

 

[BobRyan]

col 2:16 So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths.

The moderator told me I could not respond to posts here - except to clarify some statement in my debate post.

Try that one out on another thread please. I will respond there.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Bob, when u have a minute, why does Paul say he wasted his time on the church, when they observed sabby?


10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

Try that one on a thread where I am allowed to respond --

 

[BobRyan]

I can not post anything else until you do. We have alternating posts limited to 5,000 words.

My apologies that I ran out of space.

bugkiller

Thanks - I will respond shortly.

 

[Frogster]

Here is an example of how TruthWave7 will take apart Frogster.

1. Frogster does not know the difference of authority level between God's Laws. The laws that he quoted above were written by the hand of Moses by the inspiration of God, on parchment and kept on the outside of the Ark of the Covenant. Those laws were dealing with a wider spectrum of situations in the Nation of Israel, most a still good laws to this day, some are not applicable in our modern world as sanitation and other circumstances make them irrelevant.

2. The 10 Commandments were written by the finger of God himself, by passing even Moses. They are divine laws of the highest order in the Universe. All 10 are moral in nature, and transcend the OT and NT. They were stored inside the Ark of the Covenant.

sorry,,the ministry of death, on stones was not permanent. do you know better than Paul. read 2 cor 3.

sorry, but i am still one unit, not taken apart.

 

[Frogster]

i have said that over and over here on this forum, waste of time..sabby..gal 4;10-11

 

[from scratch]

Here is an example of how TruthWave7 will take apart Frogster.

1. Frogster does not know the difference of authority level between God's Laws. The laws that he quoted above were written by the hand of Moses by the inspiration of God, on parchment and kept on the outside of the Ark of the Covenant. Those laws were dealing with a wider spectrum of situations in the Nation of Israel, most a still good laws to this day, some are not applicable in our modern world as sanitation and other circumstances make them irrelevant.

2. The 10 Commandments were written by the finger of God himself, by passing even Moses. They are divine laws of the highest order in the Universe. All 10 are moral in nature, and transcend the OT and NT. They were stored inside the Ark of the Covenant.

First one has to be subject to something to violate it. thus just one passage sends you to the corner or to th emat for the count.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Even circumcision exceeds the 10 Cs in authority.

 

[Frogster]

Here is an example of how TruthWave7 will take apart Frogster.

1. Frogster does not know the difference of authority level between God's Laws. The laws that he quoted above were written by the hand of Moses by the inspiration of God, on parchment and kept on the outside of the Ark of the Covenant. Those laws were dealing with a wider spectrum of situations in the Nation of Israel, most a still good laws to this day, some are not applicable in our modern world as sanitation and other circumstances make them irrelevant.

2. The 10 Commandments were written by the finger of God himself, by passing even Moses. They are divine laws of the highest order in the Universe. All 10 are moral in nature, and transcend the OT and NT. They were stored inside the Ark of the Covenant.

sorry...u don't understand, and that is why u cant refute me on my methodology thread, that is the whole point, the law was one, no pickey choosey, you say this about the clothing post i made, yet you uphold shrimp ordinances!


the law was one legal code, you break one, you break em all, as u quoted on the other thread about james.

why not here? break one, break em all, and paul said THE WHOOOOLE LAW, in gal 5:3...so that would include sabby, and food, FESTIVALS so u can't pick-n-choose bro.

 

[Frogster]

Scholars!


NLT col 2:16 So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths.

 

[Cribstyl]

@ TruthWave7





TW7, here is an example of how da Frog would destroy you in a debate.

I'd expect you to go on the offense by making claims that are foreign to scriptures.
I dont expect you to play defense and rebutt any of Frogsters claims with scriptures because Frogster tells it like it is.
In our last volley#50 you avoided my rebuttals to raise more questionable arguments.

Yes, we have read Genesis 2:1-3. It's says no such thing. By definition and understanding, God did not take a sabbath because He was finished and therefore ended all His work.

Dont you find it odd that sabbath was made for man, but you saying God is keeping it? Propper application of the 4th commandment in Ex20 Remember to keep the sabbath day holy because God rested on the seventh day, wherefore the sabbath blessed and sanctified.

Dont you find it odd that man did not work six days creating the world, God did.
Why would man need to rest the day after being created?

Truth matters..... God's word is truth.
When God gave the sabbath He commanded the CIO to go out 6 days and work by picking up manna. Why would God allow man to rest the day after He was created?
The fact in Genesis 1 proves that the works of creating was done by the one true creator. And therefore the rest on the seventh day was only by the creator.

Above is example of my claim you avoided in your response. You dont dispute fact, you just grow your own. #55

Originally Posted by TruthWave7

God comes close to mankind when he keeps the Sabbath day holy. If there was to be any day that God would visit in person with the first human beings on planet earth it would be Sabbath!



Rest in this case meant for Adam and Eve and Jesus in close face to face communion. That is what rest is all about on the Sabbath. Its not resting from physical labor, its shifting the focus from work to spiritual themes and conversations.
​

What can you prove from the scriptures?

 

[TruthWave7]

sorry,,the ministry of death, on stones was not permanent. do you know better than Paul. read 2 cor 3.

sorry, but i am still one unit, not taken apart.

Don't you realize how irrational and illogical your reasoning is? If what you stated above is true, then you and every professing Christian in the world can continue breaking God's Holy Law, the 10 Commandments, without remorse, or consequences! If that is the case, then there there was no need for Jesus to have died for us! The Gospel that you preach is no Gospel at all, because it promotes lawlessness and sin, which eventually leads to eternal death.

 

[Cribstyl]

Don't you realize how irrational and illogical your reasoning is? If what you stated above is true, then you and every professing Christian in the world can continue breaking God's Holy Law, the 10 Commandments, without remorse, or consequences! If that is the case, then there there was no need for Jesus to have died for us! The Gospel that you preach is no Gospel at all, because it promotes lawlessness and sin, which eventually leads to eternal death.

On the contrary my friend.. God's word is true. Did you read 2Cor 3? If you read 2Cor 3 the conclusion of the matter is plain talk;
2Cr 3:11 For if that which is done away [was] glorious, much more that which remaineth [is] glorious.
2Cr 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

We expect you to ignor plainness of speech and 'reason in' being under covenant that 'was' glorious.

2Cr 3:17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.



The liberty is not to sin or to promote lawlessness. If you're indwelt by the holy spirit, you'd know that the spirit leads to faith through knowledge. Here is the real present truth about the next step after you've accepted Christ. If you see a command to keep the law let us know.

2Pe 1:2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2Pe 1:3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:12Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know [them], and be established in the present truth.


The Holy Spirit is able to use those who live by faith for the work of the Gospel. The gospel is not about the law, it's not about sin and death. The Gospel is about life in the spirit.

 

[Frogster]

Don't you realize how irrational and illogical your reasoning is? If what you stated above is true, then you and every professing Christian in the world can continue breaking God's Holy Law, the 10 Commandments, without remorse, or consequences! If that is the case, then there there was no need for Jesus to have died for us! The Gospel that you preach is no Gospel at all, because it promotes lawlessness and sin, which eventually leads to eternal death.

not at all, i am saying there is grace power, you are saying stone tablets stop sin, when in fact tablets came to increase sin in rom 5;20, but as usual u got no NT text to prove me wrong..

the power of sin is the law, 1 cor 15;56.

 

[from scratch]

Says who? Have you read Genesis 2? The first Sabbath was on the 7th day of Creation, Adam and Eve had not yet sinned by that time. Therefore, it is logical to assume that Adam and Eve kept the first Sabbath along with Jesus in the garden of Eden. This is confirmed by the NT text that Jesus spoke:

"The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27)

Why did God wait thousands of years to tell us He made the sabbath for us?

I do not see this said or implied in Book of the Law.

When did God visit with man according to the Scripture? [Hint no day is stated or implied.]

 

[Frogster]

On the contrary my friend.. God's word is true. Did you read 2Cor 3? If you read 2Cor 3 the conclusion of the matter is plain talk;
2Cr 3:11 For if that which is done away [was] glorious, much more that which remaineth [is] glorious.
2Cr 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

We expect you to ignor plainness of speech and 'reason in' being under covenant that 'was' glorious.

2Cr 3:17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.

they also don't want to see 2 things..

all in one verse..

who blinds the minde of people to the gospel?

and how the Glory came by christ in the gospel of grace, not the faded glory of the stones..

clealry showing how christ is new cov, juxtaposed to the old cov, they teach..


2 cor 4;4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.


so we got the devil not hiding the old cov, but the gospel...hmmmmm

 

[from scratch]

Don't you realize how irrational and illogical your reasoning is? If what you stated above is true, then you and every professing Christian in the world can continue breaking God's Holy Law, the 10 Commandments, without remorse, or consequences! If that is the case, then there there was no need for Jesus to have died for us! The Gospel that you preach is no Gospel at all, because it promotes lawlessness and sin, which eventually leads to eternal death.

Why do you refuse to accept the NC?

Why do you refuse to believe Moses?

Why do you refuse to believe the words of Jesus?

Why do you refuse to believe the prophets?

Why do you act as though some promote murder, lying, stealing, parent hating and adultery?

 

[Frogster]

Why do you refuse to accept the NC?

Why do you refuse to believe Moses?

Why do you refuse to believe the words of Jesus?

Why do you refuse to believe the prophets?

Why do you act as though some promote murder, lying, stealing, parent hating and adultery?

 

[Cribstyl]

Why did God wait thousands of years to tell us He made the sabbath for us?

That's a valid question.

I do not see this said or implied in Book of the Law.

Made up teaching.

When did God visit with man according to the Scripture? [Hint no day is stated or implied.]

Made up SDA teaching.