Have you been immersed (baptized) in water?

[Francess]

I think I received a Catholic baptism when I was a baby, but I have received an immersion baptism now.

 

[Michaelismyname]

Please read my words carefully. Baptism is not about obedience or disobedience. Jesus did not command us to be baptized.
He commissioned the church to go and make disciples. Two components of disciple-making are baptizing those disciples and teaching those disciples. But there is no command to be baptized.

Matthew 28:20 is not a command. Jesus is sending the apostles (and by extension, the Church) to make disciples.

"teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you"

How can this be twisted into placing an obligation on people to be baptized? Where did Jesus make such a command?

ahh ok .. so you want to word play - why . as justification for ignoring the lords instruction to "follow him ?
you still have not answered as to what your motivation is- it still appears to be to encourage disobedience ?

then for you we can simply fit the words to your word play stance and ask ... who have you baptized? since he commanded them to make disciples baptizing them in the name of the father and the son and the Holy spirit (baptizing being immersion)

and added to it the question in acts ..

37 Now when they heard this, they were acutely distressed and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “What should we do, brothers?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children, and for all who are far away, as many as the Lord our God will call to himself.” 40 With many other words he testified and exhorted them saying, “Save yourselves from this perverse generation!” 41 So those who accepted his message were baptized,.....-

you see when you play with words based only on a single instance rather then upon what the entire bible says on the topic you risk falling into false doctrines .And it is displayed in the above text that people who desire to follow Christ having believed in him.. have no problem with simple obedience but do with a willing heart that which is asked of them under the instruction of the Holy Spirit in agreement to the Lord Jesus
those that "will" not are displaying the fruit of disobedience .

and again i ask .. what is your motive in the arguments you are giving - do you wish to encourage obedience to Christ or disobedience ?

 

[holyrokker]

What word play? You, or someone else in this thread, claimed that Christians must be baptized out of obedience to Christ's command; yet no one has shown that Jesus actually commanded that.

You, and a couple of other individuals, claim that Jesus gave such a command in Matthew 28:18-20, but that passage (nor any other passage in the entire Bible) gives a command from Jesus to be baptized.

You quoted Acts 2:38, but that also is neither a command, nor is it from Jesus. It is part of Peter's exhortation to the crowds.

It seems to me that you are taking church tradition, and turning it into a Biblical mandate.

 

[All4HISglory]

Yes. Twice. Once a child by the ushering of my parents and another as an adult when I consciously chose to serve God.

~For Your glory Lord {iPad}

 

[greatdivide46]

Originally posted by holyrokker

You, and a couple of other individuals, claim that Jesus gave such a command in Matthew 28:18-20, but that passage (nor any other passage in the entire Bible) gives a command from Jesus to be baptized.

Is there any command at all in Matthew 28:18-20?

 

[greatdivide46]

But this is not a command to be baptized, and shouldn't be taken as such.

The "command" is to make disciples. Two aspects of this activity are baptizing the disciples and teaching them to observe His commands.

So, making disciples is commanded but baptizing them and teaching them is not? I mean there's the command, which I assume we must obey, but the very actions that will carry out and fulfill that command are not themselves commands? How exactly are we supposed to fulfill the command then if were not commanded to fulfill the command? Sorry, it's not making much sense to me that Jesus would command us do to something then tell us how to do that, but then turn around a boldly state that that which we do to fulfill the command is not a command.

 

[Michaelismyname]

Originally Posted by holyrokker
Please read my words carefully. Baptism is not about obedience or disobedience. Jesus did not command us to be baptized.
He commissioned the church to go and make disciples..[( and baptize them)-you omitted that partholyroker.] .Two components of disciple-making are baptizing those disciples and teaching those disciples. But there is no command to be baptized.
Matthew 28:20 is not a command. Jesus is sending the apostles (and by extension, the Church) to make disciples.
"teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you"
How can this be twisted into placing an obligation on people to be baptized? Where did Jesus make such a command?

and since the very action of becoming a follower of the lord Jesus is in the public declaration of faith in Him this must be done by those who disciple others and since those that disciple others are told to baptize them it is all integrated but you wish to divide it - but for what motive?
------------------

What word play? You, or someone else in this thread, claimed that Christians must be baptized out of obedience to Christ's command; yet no one has shown that Jesus actually commanded that.

You, and a couple of other individuals, claim that Jesus gave such a command in Matthew 28:18-20, but that passage (nor any other passage in the entire Bible) gives a command from Jesus to be baptized.

You quoted Acts 2:38, but that also is neither a command, nor is it from Jesus. It is part of Peter's exhortation to the crowds.

It seems to me that you are taking church tradition, and turning it into a Biblical mandate.

----------
actually in the OP it is worded ..

as an act of obedience by faith

..and again

water baptism is also a conscious act of obedience by faith and a public declaration of that faith in the Lord Jesus

the word command is not used .

are you then advocating that a person should not be obedient to Christ Jesus as an act of faith ?

I notice you keep ignoring the question in regard to your motives in raising the the argument you Do. i also observe that you keep ignoring the fact that Jesus commanded the believers to be go into all the world (as already proven by quoted scripture ) making disciples and baptizing them .
you have in no way refuted .this but only ignored it .

why do you wish to lead people into disobedience ?does the lord Jesus have to use the words "I command you " before you will walk in obedience to him?
rather he says "My sheep hear my voice and they follow me " A willing heart after God does not need "command" , by the very nature of a "willing heart "

I will give no further reply to your posts on this topic until you have clarified your motives .to encourage people to walk in obedience - or to encourage people to walk in disobedience .. state your stance .

 

[Michaelismyname]

So, making disciples is commanded but baptizing them and teaching them is not? I mean there's the command, which I assume we must obey, but the very actions that will carry out and fulfill that command are not themselves commands? How exactly are we supposed to fulfill the command then if were not commanded to fulfill the command? Sorry, it's not making much sense to me that Jesus would command us do to something then tell us how to do that, but then turn around a boldly state that that which we do to fulfill the command is not a command.

I understood that fully lol and your quite right .

its "nit pikkng" at words and ignoring the spirit of it .playing with the" letter of the law and completely missing the heart"
while posting under the declared mood of "amusement" -one might not find it so amusing if the words lead to some one else falling away from the faith or stumbling .

 

[holyrokker]

My objection is making baptism an obligation; a command. Jesus did NOT make it a command.

I know, I know: Jesus said "teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you" But WHERE is the command to be baptized? It is not ANYWHERE in the Bible. It is not in the Matthew 28 text. It is not in Peter's exhortation in Acts chapter two. It is not in Paul's epistles.

The Church is commissioned to make disciples (not the same thing as a command). PART of that disciple-making process is baptising those disciples. (I feel like I'm just repeating myself over and over.)

Baptism is not a matter obedience to Christ.
A person who is baptized is no more obedient than someone who isn't.
A person who is not baptized is no less obedient than someone who is.

Once again - there is no command to be baptized; so there is no obedience or disobedience related to baptism.

I have been baptized, and I have baptized others. I have no objection to baptism. My objection is to making baptism an obligation. To do so contradicts the Gospel.

 

[Michaelismyname]

My objection is making baptism an obligation; a command. Jesus did NOT make it a command.

I know, I know: Jesus said "teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you" But WHERE is the command to be baptized? It is not ANYWHERE in the Bible. It is not in the Matthew 28 text. It is not in Peter's exhortation in Acts chapter two. It is not in Paul's epistles.

The Church is commissioned to make disciples (not the same thing as a command). PART of that disciple-making process is baptising those disciples. (I feel like I'm just repeating myself over and over.)

Baptism is not a matter obedience to Christ.
A person who is baptized is no more obedient than someone who isn't.
A person who is not baptized is no less obedient than someone who is.

Once again - there is no command to be baptized; so there is no obedience or disobedience related to baptism.

I have been baptized, and I have baptized others. I have no objection to baptism. My objection is to making baptism an obligation. To do so contradicts the Gospel.

firstly - why didn't you just say that ?
secondly - by that reason there is no reason to obey almost any of the new testament - but obedience does not need command .
to know what is right and not do it ..is sin

 

[revrobor]

What word play? You, or someone else in this thread, claimed that Christians must be baptized out of obedience to Christ's command; yet no one has shown that Jesus actually commanded that.

You, and a couple of other individuals, claim that Jesus gave such a command in Matthew 28:18-20, but that passage (nor any other passage in the entire Bible) gives a command from Jesus to be baptized.

You quoted Acts 2:38, but that also is neither a command, nor is it from Jesus. It is part of Peter's exhortation to the crowds.

It seems to me that you are taking church tradition, and turning it into a Biblical mandate.

Why in the world are you arguing that Jesus telling us to baptize is not a command. What difference does it make what you call it? Jesus said do it so we do it. Your argument seems totally irrelevant.

 

[holyrokker]

Why in the world are you arguing that Jesus telling us to baptize is not a command. What difference does it make what you call it? Jesus said do it so we do it. Your argument seems totally irrelevant.

I'm not making that argument.

Jesus left the Church instructions to (among other things) baptize disciples.

But that is different from what many have claimed, that it is an act of obedience to be baptized.

Am I the only person who sees the distinction?

It is our responsibility to carry on the ordinance of baptism, but no one is under the obligation to be baptized.

 

[revrobor]

I'm not making that argument.

Jesus left the Church instructions to (among other things) baptize disciples.

But that is different from what many have claimed, that it is an act of obedience to be baptized.

Am I the only person who sees the distinction?

It is our responsibility to carry on the ordinance of baptism, but no one is under the obligation to be baptized.

Apparently you are the only one to hold that opinion. While baptism is not required for salvation it is an act of loving obedience. Why would you not want to be baptized? Have you been baptized? If not, why not? Yours seems like a silly argument.

 

[greatdivide46]

It is very telling, to me, that every single person who became a Christian in the New Testament was baptized. Whether its a command or not (and personally I've always had my doubts about making it a matter of obedience) it is something that all Christians should do, apparently. At least based on the universal use of baptism in the New Testament. The New Testament, particularly the book of Acts, knows no such thing as an unbaptized Christian.

 

[holyrokker]

Apparently you are the only one to hold that opinion. While baptism is not required for salvation it is an act of loving obedience. Why would you not want to be baptized? Have you been baptized? If not, why not? Yours seems like a silly argument.

I don't think you understand anything that I've been saying throughout this thread. If you did, you wouldn't have made those comments.

 

[Michaelismyname]

I don't think you understand anything that I've been saying throughout this thread. If you did, you wouldn't have made those comments.

thats the problem - it seems no one can is understanding what your trying to say .

quite simply , we love the lord Jesus - we don't need a "command"
if he but softly suggested it - i would willingly do it out of gratitude for what he has done for me.
and yet every one can see that he told the disciples to make more disciples and baptize them - in order for the new disciples to be baptized .. they need to BE baptized
doing what you are told - is obedience .

its all very simply really

 

[Barefooter]

I believe baptism shows the world that we're identified with Christ. To say that you have to be baptised to be saved means that we're DOING some work to be saved. There is nothing we can do to work for our salvation. We are saved by grace, belief in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Michaelismyname]

I believe baptism shows the world that we're identified with Christ. To say that you have to be baptised to be saved means that we're DOING some work to be saved. There is nothing we can do to work for our salvation. We are saved by grace, belief in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Hi .. could you pop back to the original post and read it all . i would appreciate that .

and ..obedience is evidence of righteousness .. not a means by which to achieve it .

 

[greatdivide46]

I believe baptism shows the world that we're identified with Christ. To say that you have to be baptised to be saved means that we're DOING some work to be saved. There is nothing we can do to work for our salvation. We are saved by grace, belief in the Lord Jesus Christ.

So, if we don't believe can we be saved? If not, then we have to do something to be saved, don't we?

 

[Barefooter]

If you're saying that you can be saved, but not believe that Jesus Christ is the only Son of God, thru Him we recieve salvation. Jesus said "no man comes to the father but by me". That is not doing or working, it is simple acceptance of His word, belief in Him, having you're sins forgiven, etc. If we feel we've done anything except that, there's a sense of pride that comes in. Maybe I'm not following your thoughts, if so, sorry.