Eternal Fire SAVES not TORTURES (2)

[FrGlen]

None of which say everyone will be saved. It's still YOUR opinion.

If the scriptures quoted do not indicate the possibility that all shall be saved, how many scriptures indicating that Christ's intent that his salvation was for all would you like? It looks to me as if you are saying that a valid interpretation of scripture is false only because it is not your own interpretation. I'm not taking any position on universalism, or on any similar beliefs here. I AM saying that the reply of "that's only your opinion" is neither a rebuttal or refutation of the argument at hand.

Blessings, Glen+

 

[dollarsbill]

If the scriptures quoted do not indicate the possibility that all shall be saved, how many scriptures indicating that Christ's intent that his salvation was for all would you like? It looks to me as if you are saying that a valid interpretation of scripture is false only because it is not your own interpretation. I'm not taking any position on universalism, or on any similar beliefs here. I AM saying that the reply of "that's only your opinion" is neither a rebuttal or refutation of the argument at hand.

Blessings, Glen+

Are you familiar with the NT terms, everlasting, eternal, and forever? How about 'eternal life'? Does eternal life end?

 

[he-man]

If the scriptures quoted do not indicate the possibility that all shall be saved, how many scriptures indicating that Christ's intent that his salvation was for all would you like? It looks to me as if you are saying that a valid interpretation of scripture is false only because it is not your own interpretation. I'm not taking any position on universalism, or on any similar beliefs here. I AM saying that the reply of "that's only your opinion" is neither a rebuttal or refutation of the argument at hand.Blessings, Glen+

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Only those who are in Christ and displayed regret and have repented will be resurrected and given a ballot!

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Re 2:16 Regret for having done wrong accordingly; and if not, coming to you swiftly, also, I will will fight against them by the sword of my maw1.
1* Greek στόμα cavernous opening that resembles the open mouth of a voracious animal

17 He who has ears, hear what the Spirit says to the gatherings; To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white ballot, and in the ballot a new name written, for no one except the receiver.

Re 2:11 He who has an ear, hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies; He who is victorious/overcomes shall in no way be wronged from the second death.

Isa 66:14 And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.

15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

 

[FrGlen]

Are you familiar with the NT terms, everlasting, eternal, and forever? How about 'eternal life'? Does eternal life end?

Yup...all of the above. Also familiar with the term "non sequitur". What does your question possibly have to do with my comment, or the discussion at hand? Eternal life does NOT end. Scripture is quite clear about that. I suppose the real question you are not so subtly trying to ask is, what about eternal punishment? Well, that comes down to whether you understand the scripture to teach that salvation is by Grace, and that Grace comes through God's actions, not ours, in the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Or do you understand the scriptures to teach salvation by works (even added to grace, makes no difference). If Christ came as the savior for all, as is plainly stated as his intent (look at the plethora of previous posts in this thread) then the Grace of God means something in that through the Son, the Father sees us as righteousness. If he did not come as the savior for all, then we are left with works and another tired old temporary sacrifice.

So, my brother in Christ, which is it?
Glen+

Blessings, Glen+

 

[createdtoworship]

Yup...all of the above. Also familiar with the term "non sequitur". What does your question possibly have to do with my comment, or the discussion at hand? Eternal life does NOT end. Scripture is quite clear about that. I suppose the real question you are not so subtly trying to ask is, what about eternal punishment? Well, that comes down to whether you understand the scripture to teach that salvation is by Grace, and that Grace comes through God's actions, not ours, in the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Or do you understand the scriptures to teach salvation by works (even added to grace, makes no difference). If Christ came as the savior for all, as is plainly stated as his intent (look at the plethora of previous posts in this thread) then the Grace of God means something in that through the Son, the Father sees us as righteousness. If he did not come as the savior for all, then we are left with works and another tired old temporary sacrifice.

So, my brother in Christ, which is it?
Glen+

Blessings, Glen+

what about all the commands to repent and be converted? How can God save all, if He commands them to repent. And wouldn't that mean none are saved because non truly repent? Or is it really just a matter of repenting of every known sin to the best of our ability and repeatedly as a love factor proving we are His children? But this means that if we have not love, then we are not God's children. Still not all are saved.

 

[strangertoo]

Are you familiar with the NT terms, everlasting, eternal, and forever? How about 'eternal life'? Does eternal life end?

there is nothing new about the 'new testament' . sinners made that up too ... the new covenant was given to Israel by Jeremiah [Jer 31:31-34, c.f. Heb 8:8-12] and this is the ONLY covenant of grace , explicitly ONLY with both the still-divided nations of Israel's descendants [scattered worldwide amongst all nations and most of them, the House of Israel to whom only Jesus said he is sent , and they never were Jews !

so that shows how early sinners corrupted the word of God , mass religion was born when Rome DESTROYED all Hebrew Chruistians and invented its own version of a religion, stealing the name of Christ for it from Israel... work of Satan then , as Jesus confirms mass religion of thsi world must be -Rev 13:3-4

thus the mistranslation of 'to the age' as 'eternal' , 'to the age of ages' [i.e. to the END of time] mistranslated as 'forever, BY SINNERS , not saints..

AND the rest of scripture explains that there is no 'firever' of time, Jesus is the beginning and THE END ... promises all creation will accept his rule of Love, stop sinning and Love one another instead for a happy life eventually for all...

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb to the age of the ages [end of time]

scientists have even proven that time was created as PART of this space-time universe , so we KNOW scientifically as well as from God's word, that time will end when God destroys this earth and heavens... albeit He will create time again in the new earth and heavens, but that too must end as it began in the end of the righteous new earth and heavens when all move on from life as men to life' of the spirit AS ONE , having all come to accept Jesus' rule of Love, being ONE as men...

that then is the LAW of God of these two successive creations, amn will be persuaded to FREELY choose the BETTER way of living ... the consequences of sin, notably destroying this world with 'capitalistic' greed and lies to the many, fake money that does not retain its value, but life of men, their life's work, 'stolen' by international banking laws created by evil men under Satan [so they even control mass religion to keep men quiet about the mega con-ggame of 'ecnomics' where a few private men create all the money and charge others interest for doing so...power of lies for nothing over most men, evil in extreme...]

God allows it because He knows it is the ONLY way some men, many men, learn, by falling flat on their faces, pride in the dust ... sad, but true... but it must END , man cannot destroy endlessly evl cannot grow endlessly because it destroys all that Love builds, eveil even destroys its own world, this one, but that is no problem for teh craetor tocreate a new one , it allows all men to be freed from hell at one time [excepting the few saints of this earth who must set up Jesus' kingdom first in the new earth ...

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name [Israel] remain.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more
sea.

One can hardly have a more explicit ending of time than the end of this universe :-

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
...
2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world...

some discussions on the web of the 'ages of the ages' :-

The Doctrine of the Ages in the Bible

Hebrew Word Meanings
The Hebrew "Olam," and the Greek "Aionios

 

[FrGlen]

what about all the commands to repent and be converted? How can God save all, if He commands them to repent. And wouldn't that mean none are saved because non truly repent? Or is it really just a matter of repenting of every known sin to the best of our ability and repeatedly as a love factor proving we are His children? But this means that if we have not love, then we are not God's children. Still not all are saved.

I guess the pivotal question is, who brings one to repentance? Once again, under Grace, if we consider repentance, it is God who brings each of us to repent. If we just leave it to the plain concept I repent of my sins, and it is not God who has lead us to repentance, then we are back at works again. If it is God, through Grace who has control of the process (and there must be no doubt that He does) then the possibility that all will be saved is not unreasonable. One again, this is not because we all deserve it, but because we are the totally unmerited Grace of God in Christ Jesus. Universalism is not my point, but God's pure Grace, and the fact that we can do nothing to merit salvation is.

Blessings, Glen+

 

[strangertoo]

I guess the pivotal question is, who brings one to repentance? Once again, under Grace, if we consider repentance, it is God who brings each of us to repent.

God persuades all men by Love to love , through Jesus' Love followed by the FEW saints Matt 7:14, Jude 1:14, Rev 7:3-8, followed by countless many in the new earth [Rev 7:9-10] who were all destroyed in this earth [Matt 7:13] , followed by the remainder through the final baptism of fire, the lake of fire ...

Read scripture MORE CAREFULLY and you too will see that only the FEW saints of this world are saved by grace , the many are freed from sin by DEATH for sin[Rom 6:7] and saved by works, not grace [Rev 20:13]... the WHOLE bible explains that God elected Israel to be His priests and kings of Jesus' kingdom come in the new earth... so why listen to sinners who bizarrely claim God punishes meaninglessly without reprieve instead of being saviour of all men as Jesus claims he is ,will be :-

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

For God's sake and your own, read the scripture instead of repeating tales of sinners from mass religion Jesus says MUST be apostate [fallen away] - Rev 13:3-4 worshipping Satan's image of a god as a god because he as a man claims to be God and Christ... and does a few lying 'wonders' to fool the masses of this earth , almost all this earth ...

If we just leave it to the plain concept I repent of my sins, and it is not God who has lead us to repentance, then we are back at works again.

No-one can repent all their sins until spirit baptism because men le even to ourselves, God has to point out all our sins once we WANT to stop sinning... as for going 'back' to woks, 'Love' without works of Love is just lying to oneself, if one does not DO Love then one does not Love at all :-

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

the FEW , all SAINTS, none any longer sinners , are saved by grace , but grace causes one to do works of Love else one is still a sinner ...deceiving oneself one can be saved without becoming Loving, without obeying Jesus and Loving all men, no more sin against them...

If it is God, through Grace who has control of the process (and there must be no doubt that He does)

God cannot CHOOSE Love for you, you have to choose for yourself whether to sin or Love... God can only tell you Love will make you happy, sin will bring you woe, it is YOUR choice what you DO...

then the possibility that all will be saved is not unreasonable.

it ain't about 'reason', it's simply obvious that God cannot be the God of Love of all men if anyone sins endlessly as sinners paradoxically claim they can [whilst bizarrely claiming 'grace' covers their continual sinning , refusal to Love abd obey Jesus ... the bible says many times it does NOT cover sin after water baptism , only past sins can be forgiven, that is when one STOPS sinning at water baptism, dies to the man of sin within and allows God within - spirit baptism]

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

we even have that abomination of an oxymoron, men calling themselves 'sinner priests' of Satan's mass religion of sinners led by sinners, blind leading the blind for NONE can know God or Jesus as a sinner until they stop and choose Love instead of sin against others...... water baptism should mark that tie, but it is too easy to fake it , but one cannot fake spirit baptism without which no-one enters the kingdom, no-one ...sealed it is :-

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

One again, this is not because we all deserve it, but because we are the totally unmerited Grace of God in Christ Jesus.

Why not READ the new covenant instead of repeating the nonsense of sinners - Heb 8:8-12, Jer 31:31-34, it is NOT with everyone BECAUSE most are freed from sin by death and resurrection [Rom 6:7] , ALL are freed from hell [Rev 20:13] ... again giving the lie to preachings of sinners in frocks... so the many who are destroyed in this life [Matt 7:13] can be saved in the new earth kingdom come by WORKS [Rev 20:13] , not grace, and many are [Rev 7:9-10] , not just the few saints taken by Jesus [Jude 1:14] to build the kingdom first

Universalism is not my point, but God's pure Grace, and the fact that we can do nothing to merit salvation is.

God however states that He is the saviour of all men and it is His pleasure that all men be saved and none can stop Him doing so... BUT YOU overlook that Love MUST be freely chosen else it is not Love at all... so God cannot save anyone, He has to persuade men Love is better than sin for all, for everyone... then men save themselves by WORKS of Love ... one cannot MERIT forgiveness, it is freely given because of Love, but equally there is no salvation if one's Love does not cause one to Love... works are what shows one's Love is not a lie... all Love is TRIALLED in baptism of 'fire' , the PROOF one can Love even sinners, even folks who kill one in life, even those who kill one's friends and family, even those who killed Jesus and almost all saints since Jesus died, any prophets of Love before that... baptism of fire is REQUIRED because men lie even to themselves and especially in religion and politics...

 

[createdtoworship]

I guess the pivotal question is, who brings one to repentance? Once again, under Grace, if we consider repentance, it is God who brings each of us to repent. If we just leave it to the plain concept I repent of my sins, and it is not God who has lead us to repentance, then we are back at works again. If it is God, through Grace who has control of the process (and there must be no doubt that He does) then the possibility that all will be saved is not unreasonable. One again, this is not because we all deserve it, but because we are the totally unmerited Grace of God in Christ Jesus. Universalism is not my point, but God's pure Grace, and the fact that we can do nothing to merit salvation is.

Blessings, Glen+

well if God brings us to repentance, why command it of us in so many verses?

silly

 

[dollarsbill]

Yup...all of the above. Also familiar with the term "non sequitur". What does your question possibly have to do with my comment, or the discussion at hand? Eternal life does NOT end. Scripture is quite clear about that. I suppose the real question you are not so subtly trying to ask is, what about eternal punishment? Well, that comes down to whether you understand the scripture to teach that salvation is by Grace, and that Grace comes through God's actions, not ours, in the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Or do you understand the scriptures to teach salvation by works (even added to grace, makes no difference). If Christ came as the savior for all, as is plainly stated as his intent (look at the plethora of previous posts in this thread) then the Grace of God means something in that through the Son, the Father sees us as righteousness. If he did not come as the savior for all, then we are left with works and another tired old temporary sacrifice.

So, my brother in Christ, which is it?
Glen+

Blessings, Glen+

Jesus came to save ALL who repent. Eternal life, eternal punishment, NEVER ending.

 

[dollarsbill]

there is nothing new about the 'new testament' . sinners made that up too ... the new covenant was given to Israel by Jeremiah [Jer 31:31-34, c.f. Heb 8:8-12] and this is the ONLY covenant of grace , explicitly ONLY with both the still-divided nations of Israel's descendants [scattered worldwide amongst all nations and most of them, the House of Israel to whom only Jesus said he is sent , and they never were Jews !

so that shows how early sinners corrupted the word of God , mass religion was born when Rome DESTROYED all Hebrew Chruistians and invented its own version of a religion, stealing the name of Christ for it from Israel... work of Satan then , as Jesus confirms mass religion of thsi world must be -Rev 13:3-4

thus the mistranslation of 'to the age' as 'eternal' , 'to the age of ages' [i.e. to the END of time] mistranslated as 'forever, BY SINNERS , not saints..

AND the rest of scripture explains that there is no 'firever' of time, Jesus is the beginning and THE END ... promises all creation will accept his rule of Love, stop sinning and Love one another instead for a happy life eventually for all...

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb to the age of the ages [end of time]

scientists have even proven that time was created as PART of this space-time universe , so we KNOW scientifically as well as from God's word, that time will end when God destroys this earth and heavens... albeit He will create time again in the new earth and heavens, but that too must end as it began in the end of the righteous new earth and heavens when all move on from life as men to life' of the spirit AS ONE , having all come to accept Jesus' rule of Love, being ONE as men...

that then is the LAW of God of these two successive creations, amn will be persuaded to FREELY choose the BETTER way of living ... the consequences of sin, notably destroying this world with 'capitalistic' greed and lies to the many, fake money that does not retain its value, but life of men, their life's work, 'stolen' by international banking laws created by evil men under Satan [so they even control mass religion to keep men quiet about the mega con-ggame of 'ecnomics' where a few private men create all the money and charge others interest for doing so...power of lies for nothing over most men, evil in extreme...]

God allows it because He knows it is the ONLY way some men, many men, learn, by falling flat on their faces, pride in the dust ... sad, but true... but it must END , man cannot destroy endlessly evl cannot grow endlessly because it destroys all that Love builds, eveil even destroys its own world, this one, but that is no problem for teh craetor tocreate a new one , it allows all men to be freed from hell at one time [excepting the few saints of this earth who must set up Jesus' kingdom first in the new earth ...

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name [Israel] remain.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more
sea.

One can hardly have a more explicit ending of time than the end of this universe :-

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
...
2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world...

some discussions on the web of the 'ages of the ages' :-

The Doctrine of the Ages in the Bible

Hebrew Word Meanings
The Hebrew "Olam," and the Greek "Aionios

We are all sinners. Some just can't admit it.

 

[strangertoo]

We are all sinners. Some just can't admit it.

the scripture says not ... you cannot justify your sin by claimmng everyone else does it or it is inherent... you CHOOSE to sin or not ... Jesus showed that a man can choose to not sin, but obey Him and Love everyone insrtead of sinning against everyone :-

Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

so there is one lie of mass religion of sinners exposed ... but most folks are sinners until they choose to stop, choose to obey God and Jesus and become 'Christian' in the biblical sense :-
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

it is SEALED then, one cannot know God and Christ until one stops sinning...

Jesus will deny those who are still sinning by his return, because those he takes will be priests and kings in the kingdom, God will have no sin in the kingdom come , only Love ...

but the task of the kings and priests of the kingdom is clearly to minister and rule by Love, but over whom... clearly the only ones whom it can be are the many destroyed in this earth [Matt 7:13]... so indeed countless amny are saved later [Rev 7:9-10] BECAUSE the few choose Love now over sin...

alos clear is that the many are not saved in this world, but destroyed [Matt 7:13-14] giving the lie to mass religion of sinners' dogma yet again...

as for admitting sin, God baptises into His Truth [John 16:13] ALL who stop sinning with a WILL to cease even the sin they cannot admit to themselves ... the FIRST Truth God gives is the truth about oneself, one's sin, so one can repent FULLY all sin , stop all sin, Love as Jesus commands as Lord of saints, not of any sinner [because sinners disobey Jesus and God]

 

[he-man]

the scripture says not ... you cannot justify your sin by claimmng everyone else does it or it is inherent... you CHOOSE to sin or not ... Jesus showed that a man can choose to not sin, but obey Him and Love everyone insrtead of sinning against everyone :-

You have come short of the glory of God;

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

 

[dollarsbill]

the scripture says not ... you cannot justify your sin by claimmng everyone else does it or it is inherent...

I don't try to justify my sins. I just confess them to God.

Proverbs 28:13 (NASB)
13 He who conceals his transgressions will not prosper, But he who confesses and forsakes them will find compassion.

Matthew 6:12 (NASB)
12 'And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

1 John 1:8-10 (NASB)
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It wouldn't make any sense if "hell" merely meant the grave. What point would there be in condemning the wicked to hell if that's the same place where the righteous go? Clearly, Hell is a place only for the wicked who die in their sins. The righteous go to heaven to be with the Lord (2nd Corinthians 5:8).

from

Hell in the Scriptures

secondly, greek mythology teaches that there are more parts of the soul, while christianity was the first to teach only one soul. So there is no link between mythology and christianity

Hell...Gehenna...REPENT!

Young) James 3:6 and the tongue [is] a fire, the world of the unrighteousness, so the tongue is set in our members, which is spotting our whole body,
and is setting on fire the course of nature, and is set on fire by the gehenna.


A type of "gehenna" appears to be showing in this covenantle parable in Luke 16:

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
Jesus vs the Jews and Pharisees

LUKE 16:24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue;
for I am tormented in this flame.' "

Arthur Brown - Fire! (1975) - YouTube

 

[createdtoworship]

Hell...Gehenna...REPENT!

Young) James 3:6 and the tongue [is] a fire, the world of the unrighteousness, so the tongue is set in our members, which is spotting our whole body,
and is setting on fire the course of nature, and is set on fire by the gehenna.


A type of "gehenna" appears to be showing in this covenantle parable in Luke 16:

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
Jesus vs the Jews and Pharisees

LUKE 16:24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue;
for I am tormented in this flame.' "

Arthur Brown - Fire! (1975) - YouTube

I agree, but that link was a horrible commentary on lazerus and the rich man.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I agree, but that link was a horrible commentary on lazerus and the rich man.

I believe it was SPOT ON
What do you disagree with it?

 

[createdtoworship]

I believe it was SPOT ON
What do you disagree with it?

for one, it was not a parable it was a literal story. No parable mentions the name of a person in it. It normally states the subject of the parable as a farmer or as a lawyer or as a merchant, never a specific name.

 

[dollarsbill]

for one, it was not a parable it was a literal story. No parable mentions the name of a person in it. It normally states the subject of the parable as a farmer or as a lawyer or as a merchant, never a specific name.

They keep trying, don't they? Even though there is ZERO indication of being a parable.

 

[createdtoworship]

They keep trying, don't they? Even though there is ZERO indication of being a parable.

true, first time I heard little lamb, jump the fence

shocking