What is your view of Christmas...

[Lulav]

I'm not positive but I think that quote is the only place where Hashem says that Israel is someone else's people and not "My people."

Yes, that is the chapter, one of my favorite. HaShem says to Moses that 'your people have corrupted themselves', it could be a handoff or it could mean that Moses' people were comprised of Hebrews and Egyptians. Jews and Gentiles.

 

[Lulav]

You missed the part where i stated - "-said in humor-" ? perhaps?

and don't make assumptions lol - im well familiar with the account of the Golden calf

as for not belonging - are we not believers in the Messiah here ?
do we not hold to the same faith in our hearts ?
are we to so segregate ourselves that we cut one another off from fellowship. God being our father by the Grace of his mercy his word and his Blood shed .
as David said so say I - "In thy WORD oh Lord do I put my trust"

Nope I saw that. but I must apologize, I got you confused with another new poster here. Your post sounded so similar to that one. forgive me?

-golden cow is Israels G-d ... ??
-lobster veiws ...??

haha I'm glad I am not alone in digressing .

idolatry and eating of meats clean or unclean ...if i randomly read only this page and took all the above out of context -id think id stumbled into a cult thread ..


_said in humor _

But in defense of my answer, idolatry is th4e subject at hand and how we see it and how G-d sees it.

 

[Michaelismyname]

Nope I saw that. but I must apologize, I got you confused with another new poster here. Your post sounded so similar to that one. forgive me?


shall we be mutual in our forgiveness ? I reacted rather then respond and i feel bad for doing so.

 

[Lulav]

NP

 

[Torah]

Last statistics I saw about 20% of Jews keep some sort of kosher. So...by your analogy we could go either way. Lobster, not at all kosher. Do Jews eat it? Yes. So...I am not sure what you are saying? Perhaps no, it isn't a common messianic view?

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Then the analogy is as you said. Some Messianic do keep [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Christmas.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I was answering the OP. I DO NOT! [/FONT]
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[ContraMundum]

That's pretty much what I said, it didn't begin with Constantine, it just kind of culminated with his regime. But it had begun, I think at least 2 centuries before. Just an assimilation of something pagan for the newbies to hang onto in such a different type religion.

I'm with you, Contra, all this screaming about paganism is really silly. If a believer wants to have a christmas tree and decorations and presents on Dec. 25 in a celebration of Yeshua's birth - there is nothing wrong in this. What's wrong is using this designated time as a time to PARTEE without a thought to the holiness that is what brought it all about.

I, personally, do not celebrate it but I don't judge those that do as being wrong or evil or unlearned or pagan. It's none of my business. And I do not separate myself from those who do celebrate it with pure hearts toward Yeshua. Who am I to judge how they choose to celebrate our Master? When all is said and done, it may be us who don't celebrate it that were wrong, and I sure don't want to stand beneath my own harsh judgment, that's for sure, 'cause we humans are great at passing judgment if we don't check ourselves constantly! Whew! may it never be!

To be frank, I think the birth of Jesus is sometime between 24 Dec and 6 Jan. (Interesting that the EOCs keep Jan 6 not Dec 25, pretty much killing the whole pagan connection myth) I don't do trees or stuff like that. Never have. I work every Xmas with feeding the poor. I'm happy with that and if some grinches here think that this is in honor of some fictitious sun god I couldn't care less. It's fulfilling a mitzvah about charity for me.

 

[ContraMundum]

People get too hung up on the letter of the Law sometimes.

2 Chron 30 shows God is gracious enough to look more at our faith than our perfect observance. Read it carefully and you'll see the great blessings of faith.

 

[Forge3]

The remembrance of the Birth of the Christ.

 

[pat34lee]

To be frank, I think the birth of Jesus is sometime between 24 Dec and 6 Jan. (Interesting that the EOCs keep Jan 6 not Dec 25, pretty much killing the whole pagan connection myth) I don't do trees or stuff like that. Never have. I work every Xmas with feeding the poor. I'm happy with that and if some grinches here think that this is in honor of some fictitious sun god I couldn't care less. It's fulfilling a mitzvah about charity for me.

There is one problem with a mid-winter birth for Yeshua. Remember the nativity story? Luke 2:8 specifically;

And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.​

It would be too cold in mid to late December to have the flocks loose in the fields at night.

From Clarke's commentary:

It was a custom among the Jews to send out their sheep to the deserts, about the passover, and bring them home at the commencement of the first rain: during the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As the passover occurred in the spring, and the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November, we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole of the summer. And as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, our Lord was not born on the 25th of December, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could he have been born later than September, as the flocks were still in the fields by night.​

 

[Yahu]

There is one problem with a mid-winter birth for Yeshua. Remember the nativity story? Luke 2:8 specifically;

And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.​

It would be too cold in mid to late December to have the flocks loose in the fields at night.

From Clarke's commentary:

It was a custom among the Jews to send out their sheep to the deserts, about the passover, and bring them home at the commencement of the first rain: during the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As the passover occurred in the spring, and the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November, we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole of the summer. And as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, our Lord was not born on the 25th of December, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could he have been born later than September, as the flocks were still in the fields by night.​

Actually, the shepards were not your normal shepards to begin with. They were the keepers of the herd of sheep used for the temple. The shepards were Levites that keep that flock. In winter they were kept penned.

The birthplace of Yeshua was were the temple flock was kept to give birth.

He was also most likely born on Succoth and circumcised 8 days later, both being holy days. The census would not have been done in winter but during one of the mandatory feasts in Jerusalem.

 

[ContraMundum]

There is one problem with a mid-winter birth for Yeshua. Remember the nativity story? Luke 2:8 specifically;

And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.​

It would be too cold in mid to late December to have the flocks loose in the fields at night.

Lambing season. Still happens today. Clarke didn't know this. what the guy says in the post above is close.

 

[anisavta]

I'm not a shepherd, but I have been to Jerusalem/West Bank in December/January. Common sense tells me they wouldn't have their new lambs out grazing on frozen (yes it does get that cold) grass. Seems the new lambs would be kept warm in caves. Just my observation.
And if I were going to choose between setting Yeshua's birth time, I'd rather use priestly rotations and festivals over lambing season.

 

[davidbenephraim]

Do you feel it is wrong? Just curious no bashing intended.

I "feel" you are asking the wrong people to answer your questions. You should be asking El the Father what is His view of Christmas and does He feel that it is wrong? Oh and by the way, there a a number of sources including encyclopedias that can help you learn of the true origins of this hoilday.

Shalom,
David

 

[yedida]

Do you feel it is wrong? Just curious no bashing intended.

I "feel" you are asking the wrong people to answer your questions. You should be asking El the Father what is His view of Christmas and does He feel that it is wrong? Oh and by the way, there a a number of sources including encyclopedias that can help you learn of the true origins of this hoilday.

Shalom,
David

If the OP is planning on being around MJs, then, NO, he is not asking the wrong people. If he is planning on being around us, then it will be good for him to understand why we will not greet him on Dec. 24th with a cheerful, "Happy xmas!" or in April with a "Happy Easter!" He could become very confused and begin to take it personally that we don't want him around us. And, of course, that wouldn't be the thing at all - it's that we don't celebrate those holidays. Now, the majority of us MJs don't condemn those that do celebrate, we just don't join in.
It's to his benefit to know this and why. If he still chooses to celebrate those holidays, it's between him and Hashem, and none of our business. I won't attempt to dissuade him, only Ruach HaKodesh can and should be the One to do that, (as you so kindly pointed out).

 

[pat34lee]

Lambing season. Still happens today. Clarke didn't know this. what the guy says in the post above is close.

Lambing season wasn't in December either. It was around March-April. The sheep are kept in enclosures during the winter to protect them from predators and the cold weather.

 

[ContraMundum]

Lambing season wasn't in December either. It was around March-April. The sheep are kept in enclosures during the winter to protect them from predators and the cold weather.

Despite what people are saying to the contrary -it is lambing season and yes, it is cold too. This stuff was common knowledge when the Church was educated. Now of course, people just do what they want and call it true.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Migdal Edar is near Bethlehem and was where sheep were tended YEAR ROUND by the priesthood. These sheep were used in the Temple rituals.

This info is from the Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah by Edersheim.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Do you feel it is wrong? Just curious no bashing intended.

I "feel" you are asking the wrong people to answer your questions.
You should be asking El the Father what is His view of Christmas and does He feel that it is wrong? Oh and by the way, there a a number of sources including encyclopedias that can help you learn of the true origins of this hoilday.

Shalom,
David

How does one go about asking Father YAHWEH?

 

[bibledoctor]

What is your view of Christmas...

a traditional amerikan christmas signifying the event of the birth of the savior born of the virgin mary.

 

[Torah]

At one time I use to honer G-d with Chris-mas. I loved the the warm Fuzzy feelings I got at that time of year. I too use to call people scrooges who did not keep Chris-mas, I too helped poor people at that time of the year. I too said I think / believe that Chris-mas is of G-d.

Then one day someone said: “What does G-d think of your idea”? “What does G-d think”!? So, I asked myself these questions.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]what does G-d's word says about Worshiping him: [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]What days did G-d give us to Keep Holy and to Honer him with: [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Has G-d warn us when it comes to offering our worship to him:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Is there warnings in the Scriptures of what we should not offer to him:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Weather [[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]] [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]liked it or not there is his way and there is my way. [/FONT]

Mithraism

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Three times a day prayer was offered the sun toward the east, south, or west according to the hour. Sunday was kept holy in honour of Mithra, and the sixteenth of each month was sacred to him as mediator. The 25 December was observed as his birthday, the natalis invicti , the rebirth of the winter-sun,[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=8042http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=8042[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I have come to the conclusion by the warnings that G-d gives in his word that he does not want his people to take lightly his warning when it comes to honoring His Holiness. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I do NOT care to take the chance that what I offer up to G-d will be acceptable, when it may very well NOT be acceptable by him. I just don't want to take that chance.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2 Tim 4: 3-4 [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Each person must decide for there self.[/FONT]