When Will Christ Return?

[ViaCrucis]

If spiritual-physical particles exist, they could turn out to be "the God Particle" of science.

...what? No. Wow.

The "God particle" is a media buzzword attached to the Higgs-Boson, a proposed elementary particle that, according to the best available math, supposedly gives matter mass. The term "God Particle" is a media buzzword (because more people will stay tuned to "God Particle" than "Higgs-Boson"). It has nothing to do with the divine, with spirituality; and certainly isn't anything like a "spiritual-physical particle" which is, by its very notion, soundly absurd.

That you then indulge in a B-rated sci-fi fantasy involving demonically engineered towers shooting spiritual laser beams into the universe crosses the boundary line from mere absurdity into the town square of Bonkersville.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[eclipsenow]

Bible2, why do you keep copying this stuff to every thread you encounter? The 1990's want their eschatology and sci-fi imagery back.

Ha ha! More people are encountering the sheer troll power of Bible2. Give that guy ANY excuse and he'll copy and paste ALL his theories into ANY thread, whether or not they are relevant. Android Anti-Christ's come free with the stake knives!

Here is the Anti-Christ in full golden bling, being worshipped by his subjects!

(Sorry for any reprehensible and off topic Bible2 copy and paste blowback that may result from this post. He's a troll, and I guess this is feeding the troll. But do use the ignore button. I certainly have. Most of the time. The only downside is you occasionally see what he's written in the notifying emails. Just try to ignore, he's not worth it).

 

[Gnarwhal]

Ha ha! More people are encountering the sheer troll power of Bible2. Give that guy ANY excuse and he'll copy and paste ALL his theories into ANY thread, whether or not they are relevant. Android Anti-Christ's come free with the stake knives!

Here is the Anti-Christ in full golden bling, being worshipped by his subjects!

(Sorry for any reprehensible and off topic Bible2 copy and paste blowback that may result from this post. He's a troll, and I guess this is feeding the troll. But do use the ignore button. I certainly have. Most of the time. The only downside is you occasionally see what he's written in the notifying emails. Just try to ignore, he's not worth it).

I think he's under the delusion that he'll just wear down his "opponents" by bombarding them with his unintelligible nonsense.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

 

[eclipsenow]

I think he's under the delusion that he'll just wear down his "opponents" by bombarding them with his unintelligible nonsense.

He wore me down, but not by any arguments that changed my mind. Instead his lengthy nonsense made me change his status to IGNORE!

 

[Jipsah]

In the future, cell phones could become links to the Antichrist's (the AC's) future image (Rev. 13:15)

So folks are gonna call up the image of the AC on their cellphones? Why? Would it be a 1-900 number?

, which could be a machine (i.e. a speaking android that looks just like the AC, & also supercomputers that will generate a speaking CGI of the AC).

You don't need a supercomputer for that sort of thing, any decent laptop would do. But I'm trying to figure out who's gonna be impressed by a "speaking android". Disney did that back in the 60s, and they've been a theme park staple ever since. I made my living designing "machines that talk" for a good many years, and I don't think many people had any urge to prostrate themselves before them. ("Thank you for calling The Antichrist. You call is very important to us. Press one for false prophecies, 2 for the blasphemy du jour, blah blah blah.") The Talking Android Antichrist sounded more impressive when that sort of thing was the province of science fiction, but now it's just another annoying advertising schtick.

The AC's android image could be placed standing in the holy place of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, so that the android image will become the abomination of desolation (Mt. 24:15, Dan. 11:31).

A "third temple" would be an abomination in and of itself, since its existence would be a tangible denial of the coming of God Incarnate. A new "temple" would be a shout of defiance of the Christian faith by unbelieving Jews.

And in order to make it easy for everyone in the world to be able to see the image & worship it (Rev. 13:15)

Which still begs the question of why anyone would want to worship the stupid contraption in the first place.

, it could appear on every cell phone at set times each day.

Is this the "worship me or I'll annoy you incessantly" technique? I don't think that'll gain 'em much traction.

And to make it possible for everyone to interact with it personally, it could appear as a computer generated image on each individual's cell phone, speaking in & understanding each individual's language, conversing with each individual with personalized messages & responses devised by supercomputers running artificial intelligence & language software.

Forget the "supercomputers"; that would take either magic of a sort that would impress Harry Potter, or a huge telephone boiler-room full of Antichrist impersonators.

And it could discuss with them even the most intimate details of their lives, for it could have access to huge databases compiled by the AC's worldwide intelligence, law enforcement, economic, & health agencies, databases containing all the facts about everyone

I thought y'all reckoned the end was near. But here you are talking about technology that's nowhere near existing. And even if it was, so what?

You need to change most of your "coulds" to "couldn'ts" this time, This is purest fantasy. But then, that's what most "end times" blather has turned into.

 

[DCJazz]

So, what year range do you think Jesus Christ will return? Vote in the poll and then post your reason for your vote.

I think Christ will return in the 2030s for several reasons:

1) The 2030s will be exactly 2000 years after Christ left. God has a thing with numbers, and Christ has a 1000 year reign. It could be that Jesus Christ returns 2000 years after he ascended into heaven.

2) The timing is simply not right at this moment. We need a one world government before anything in the book of Revelation can begin happening, and it is going to take some time to set up a one world government (many legal hurdles, etc.). As soon as the one world government is in place the antichrist will appear. I think this will begin in the mid-to-late 2020s.

It's not for us to know. So I said "I don't know". It could be 50 years from now, or 50 seconds.... or even 5. I just don't know, as it should be.

 

[Jipsah]

Not necessarily; it could be applied with only a scalpel,

Or a Sharpie.

The AC's miracle-working False Prophet

How's he gonna manage that? I mean, calling down fire from heaven is old hat now, since it only implies access to air or space borne weapons systems. So what's the old FP gonna do to inspire worship? And where's that kind of magic come from?

 

[eclipsenow]

So folks are gonna call up the image of the AC on their cellphones? Why? Would it be a 1-900 number?

You're kidding: he did go on about the Android AntiChrist in this thread already? I was only joking when I said...

"Give that guy ANY excuse and he'll copy and paste ALL his theories into ANY thread, whether or not they are relevant. Android Anti-Christ's come free with the stake knives!"

...and honestly didn't know he had already done this routine!

I've never met a troll like him. He's so bad, it's like he's a caricature of himself! Or is that an 'image' of himself? Maybe HE is the antiChrist and we're going to be seeing images of HIM on our cell phones?

 

[Bible2]

Jipsah said in post 505:

So folks are gonna call up the image of the AC on their cellphones?

No, it could call them up on their cell phones, every day. And it could demand to be worshipped by them, every day, on the pain of them being beheaded (see post 485).

A "third temple" would be an abomination in and of itself . . .

It wouldn't be, for while the church as a whole is a figurative temple building (Eph. 2:21), it coexists as the temple of God with the literal temple building in heaven (Rev. 11:19), & with the temple of Jesus' individual human body (Jn. 2:21), & with the temple of every Christian's individual human body (1 Cor. 6:19). And if the church-as-a-whole-temple can currently coexist with all these other temples of God, it will be able to coexist with the future, 3rd-earthly-literal temple building which the scriptures show will exist during the future tribulation (Rev. 11:1-2, Mt. 24:15, Dan. 11:31,36, 2 Thes. 2:4), which 3rd temple building will be accepted by God as a valid temple, just as the 2nd temple building was accepted by God as a valid temple, even at the time of Jesus' 1st coming (Mt. 23:21) & even at the time of the early church (Lk. 24:53, Acts 22:17).

For the ultra-Orthodox Jews will build the 3rd temple, & will offer animal sacrifices in front of it, under the auspices of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (the OCML), which remains holy before God (Rom. 7:12). That's why God still keeps an ark of the OCML in his temple building in heaven (Rev. 11:19), & why it was possible for Paul one time to involve himself with the 2nd temple's OCML practices without him committing sin (Acts 21:20-26, 1 Cor. 9:20). This isn't to say that the Jesus-denying motives of the ultra-Orthodox Jews will be holy before God, but that the OCML 3rd temple in itself & its animal sacrifices in themselves will be holy before God because the OCML in itself remains holy before God (Rom. 7:12), even though its letter is no longer meant to be practiced by people (Rom. 7:6) because the New Covenant has been inaugurated by Jesus & his once-for-all-time sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Heb. 10:1-23, Mt. 26:28).

. . . since its existence would be a tangible denial of the coming of God Incarnate.

It wouldn't be, in itself.

The ultimate temple will be the Trinity itself on the new earth in the literal city of New Jerusalem, which contains no temple building (Rev. 21:22). Jesus' individual human body is already a temple of God (Jn. 2:21), & at the time of his 1st coming, his body-temple coexisted with the 2nd temple building in Jerusalem, which was also indwelt by God at the same time (Mt. 23:21). And his body-temple also coexisted (and still coexists today) with the literal temple building in heaven (Rev. 11:19). There's now also the church-as-a-whole figurative temple building (Eph. 2:21), & the myriad different temples of every Christian's individual human body (1 Cor. 6:19). There will also be the 3rd, earthly, literal temple building in Jerusalem during the future tribulation (Rev. 11:1-2, Mt. 24:15, Dan. 11:31,36, 2 Thes. 2:4), & also a 4th earthly, literal temple building in Jerusalem during the future millennium (Zech. 14:20-21), which won't begin until after the 2nd coming (Rev. 19:7-20:6, Zech. 14:3-21).

 

[Bible2]

eclipsenow said in post 487:

Jesus having 7 eyes and 7 horns and a sword-tongue was of course literal.

Re: Jesus having 7 eyes and 7 horns, that's symbolic (see the "Rev. 5:6" parts of posts 446 and 471). Re: "a sword-tongue", the "sword", not a sword "tongue", in Rev. 1:16; 19:15,21 could be a literal, spiritual sword, like the one in Gen. 3:24.

This is the most metaphorical book in the entire bible!

See post 471.

---

post 468:

While some of the early church fathers may have been Premil, they were NOT Dispensationalist.

That's right.

Pre-mil & futurism per se should be distinguished from dispensationalism. For pre-mil & futurism per se are correct, for the future tribulation (Rev. chs. 6-18/Mt. 24) & Jesus' subsequent 2nd coming (Rev. 19, Mt. 24:29-31) & the subsequent millennium (Rev. 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29) have never been fulfilled. But dispensationalism is mistaken, for all those in the church who are genetic Jews remain Israel (Rom. 11:1), & all those in the church who are genetic Gentiles have been grafted into Israel (Rom. 11:17,24, Eph. 2:12,19, Gal. 3:29). So the entire church is Israel (Rev. 21:9,12, 1 Pet. 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Mt. 26:28, 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 9:15), & the New Covenant is made only with Israel (Jer. 31:31-34, Jn. 4:22b). Jn. 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the same as the "one fold" of the church (1 Cor. 12:13, Eph. 4:4-6, Rev. 21:9,12). Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they're genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Rom. 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews if they've undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus (Rom. 2:29, Philip. 3:3, Col. 2:11-13).

Now some of these early church fathers had some 'futurist bits' like Historic Premillennialism

That's right. Premil was the teaching of the early church (see Papias) subsequent to John's writing-down of the book of Revelation, based on the clear prophecy of Rev. 19:7-20:6, which shows that the millennium will occur subsequent to Jesus' 2nd coming. Amil was an error that didn't crop up until later. The scriptural truth of premil was recovered in relatively modern times when a significant part of the church became interested again in eschatology, & believers could search the scriptures for themselves & see that premil is true, as opposed to during the centuries when the mistakenly-amil RCC hierarchy mistakenly kept the scriptures from believers & simply told them what to believe. (See also post 486)

Jesus says "My kingdom is not of this world" . . .

See the "Jn. 18:36" part of post 472.

. . . and that we "Do not know the time or hour".

See the "Matthew 24:36" part of post 401.

 

[Tzaousios]

Bible2, why did you edit Jipsah's remarks in the quotes that you made? There were many excellent criticisms of the method that you use and which you failed to address.

 

[pc_home]

Sir Isaac Newton calculated the end of the year - 2060,
solve the following equation from the book of Daniel
{[7x360+(1335-1260)]-536}+1=2060 year

 

[ViaCrucis]

Sir Isaac Newton calculated the end of the year - 2060,
solve the following equation from the book of Daniel
{[7x360+(1335-1260)]-536}+1=2060 year

42?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[eclipsenow]

There will also be the 3rd, earthly, literal temple building in Jerusalem during the future tribulation (Rev. 11:1-2, Mt. 24:15, Dan. 11:31,36, 2 Thes. 2:4), & also a 4th earthly, literal temple building in Jerusalem during the future millennium (Zech. 14:20-21), which won't begin until after the 2nd coming (Rev. 19:7-20:6, Zech. 14:3-21).

If those are the only verses Bible2 can pull out as evidence for a 3rd temple, then woe, woe, woe to his silliness! But I've explained all this to him before.

Rev is NOT literal, but symbolic literature. Bible 2 doesn't understand the word METAPHOR at all. He does not understand literary genres or scriptural types and anti-types.

Matthew 24 talks about the end of Herod's temple, the one the disciples could see with their own eyes. I've debated Bible2 till my eyes nearly bled on this point, and got no where. He raves about irrelevant foundations, when the discussion was clearly about the temple buildings that the disciples could see with their own eyes, and were OBVIOUSLY asking Jesus about. But, just to satisfy Bible2's futurist timetables, Jesus mysteriously suddenly DOES NOT ANSWER the disciples question about THAT temple, but starts unclear blathering about a still hypothetical 3rd temple. Yeah right. Pull the other one, it plays jingle bells.

Daniel 11, well, that's OT and could start a huge debate but I'm doubting it's end times. I see no evidence that it is a future temple. There are 2 points in history where this could already have been fulfilled: the Greek invasion or the Roman invasion.

2 Thessalonians 2 does not predict a still hypothetical future third temple!

Even commentators I know of who actually *believe* in a future Anti-Christ have commented that the verse phrase "so that he sets himself up in God’s temple" could easily mean setting himself up in God's church. Yes it is *imagery* drawn from Antiochus Epiphanes (Daniel 8, 9, and 11) and Mark 13:14. But Paul warns "Don’t let anyone deceive YOU", the church! Not the Jews! The CHURCH! They have "not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness." Paul says this struggle is about a counterfeit gospel, not a counterfeit Jewish kingdom.

Now check this out.
1 Corinthians 3:16
"Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?"

2 Cor 6:16
16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God."

Eph 2:21
Ephesians 2:21
"In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord."

It *could* be that the 'Anti-Christ' is a reference to anyone who takes up residence in the CHURCH and is trying to corrupt THAT temple of God. Indeed, since Jesus body was the TRUE temple, and we are now all growing up into the corporate temple of the Christian church, I think that makes far more sense. Especially given Paul's concern for pure preaching and teaching. The Anti-Christ here is trying to usurp God's purposes in the church.

This reading would make these verses in 2 Thessalonians an applicable warning to false teachers for ALL Christians in ALL ages, not some silly end-times-table prophecy that we may as well cut out of our bibles for 2000, 3000, or 4000 years. (Or however long it takes the Lord to return?)

What good is rebuilding an actual bricks and mortar temple for a largely secular Jewish state anyway? The real action, as far as hurting God's people goes... is to hurt GOD'S PEOPLE! According to the New Testament, that's not the Jews any more, but believers. Jews AND Gentiles that call on Christ as Lord! That's God's people now. So the Anti-Christ wants to invade and usurp the church! Get in there and do some false teaching. As 1 John says, there are many Anti-Christs. We should watch out for them.

"It is probably best to take "temple of God" as a metaphor, meaning that the AntiChrist will usurp God's authority." So says David Ewert in the "Evangelical Commentary on the Bible". In other words, this guy believes in a literal AntiChrist, but even he doesn't seem to correlate that with believing a literal third temple will be rebuilt.

IS THERE EVEN GOING TO BE A LITERAL ANTI-CHRIST?

I have 3 reasons for being sceptical about an AntiChrist.

1/ I don't read Revelation literally, as it's the most symbolic book in the bible.

2/ I don't read Matthew 24 as about a future Anti-Christ as I believe the Abomination was fulfilled in the destruction of the second temple under Titus. (After all, the disciples were asking aboUt *that* temple, the one they could see with their own eyes and point to! Jesus told them it was going to be destroyed, and the temple would suffer an abomination, and Titus had his soldiers sacrifice to him as a God while the temple burned in AD70. Fulfilled.)

3/ John talks about *many* Anti-Christs.

So, really, if this 2 Thess 2 passage turns out to be a metaphor for something else, I'm scratching my head to think of any other Anti-Christ-in-the-temple verses for the future?

This next guy is a personal friend of mine!

“But is there going to be one mega-evil ruler who will deceive the world and lead millions astray and do things like brand ‘666’ on their foreheads?
Probably not. There are passages in the Bible, which talk about a particular being that is Christ's foe (e.g., “the man of lawlessness” in 2 Thessalonians 2 or the dragon of Revelation 12-13 who is identified as the Devil). But this kind of symbolic language is used to describe an attitude or spirit of evil rather than a single evil person. The fact that some parts of Scripture bring ultimate evil to a head by using an individual character to identify it probably says more about how dramatic literature operates than it does about predicting history.”

The devil you know | The Briefing

Or try Luke Woodhouse:
"To explain this present spiritual reality in 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul draws a picture of the last days, when the man known as ‘lawlessness’ will be exposed. On that day, rebellion at its highest magnitude will be revealed for all to see. Comparisons with ‘lawless’ figures over history have often been distractions for Christians, in that they miss the picture Paul sketches. But comparisons should not be totally dismissed. The global outrage at figures like Adolf Hitler is a rare opportunity to see the secret power of lawlessness brought out into the open and examined. It is a moment where the whole world stops and notices anarchy with its disguise removed. It's a glimpse of hell."
Getting refocused on the return of Jesus | The Briefing

So, in summary, I'm not even convinced in a literal AntiChrist figure, let alone an AntiChrist that has to rebuild the temple so he can stand in it!

 

[BobRyan]

So, what year range do you think Jesus Christ will return? Vote in the poll and then post your reason for your vote.
.

We are very near the end - 2030's are wayy too far off

 

[Achilles6129]

We are very near the end - 2030's are wayy too far off

I don't think that's the case at all. I mean, I suppose it's a possibility, but I think we have a few decades to go. Why do you believe we are so close to the end?

 

[rockytopva]

I don't think that's the case at all. I mean, I suppose it's a possibility, but I think we have a few decades to go. Why do you believe we are so close to the end?

I go with 2053 AD... With the Lord's return to reign a 1,000 years at 2060 AD... The date Isaac Newton predicted...

12.25 2060, Isaac Newton, Seven Churches, and High Oil Prices - YouTube

 

[BobRyan]

I don't think that's the case at all. I mean, I suppose it's a possibility, but I think we have a few decades to go. Why do you believe we are so close to the end?

That is a good question.

Daniel 7, and Rev 11, and Revelation 12, and Revelation 13 all predicted the 1260 years of dark ages persecution to happen before the end. that has passed.

Matt 24 predicts that the Gospel will go into all the World and THEN will the end come. That is either past or right on top of passing - as the gospel ministries have covered the globe umpteen times over. I was in India and noticed that they Christian Gospel programming in both English and Hindi pretty much non-stop on some channels. So even though Christianity is no more than 1% or 2% of the population - the coverage is massive. And now with internet - the former iron-curtain countries have their own people exposed to Christian sermons, Bible studies videos etc.

In Revelation 12 - you have the 1260 years of the Dark Ages.

In Revelation 13 you have a 7 headed (symbolic) beast that is a composite of all the world empires listed (as beasts with a total of 7 heads) in Daniel 7.

That has already happened.

In Rev 13 you have another beast rising up at the end of the Dark Ages - and rising to world super power status. That has happened.

In Rev 13 that super power - starts off like a lamb. (The good guys) - but it ends up revoking every principle of its constitution and speaking instead like a dragon - before it is all over. It sets up the mark of the beast.

It has yet to do such a thing - but ...
Obama gives himself control of all communication systems in America — RT

It is getting closer to creating a foundation for it. So yes - wayyy closer than 30 years away.

Reading Matt 24 and looking for patterns. Shouldn't we be seeing some odd things as signs in the heavens if it really is this close?

Good question --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk-3MU-rc0M&feature=related





in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

A calm review of some signs - might be considered here. Not that I agree with all the solutions being suggest. Rather the point is that this kind of review of events and discussion of problems vs solutions (at that level ) is to be taken seriously by at least some world leaders.

Lyndon LaRouche Addresses Mexican Conference

A video Cam survey of 2011-2012 indicators of a "near term" date for the 2nd coming might be seen here.

2012 Signs - World Chaos, Earths Vengeance And Planetary Visitaions - YouTube

But seeing chaos at that level is pretty tough so perhaps only the first 8 minutes is best.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Another source talking about the last-minute in which we live. Speaking about the fact that man-made and natural disasters are rapidly shrinking the available land capable of producing food - take a look at this.

BBC Report


He warned: "We have 20 years to arguably deliver something of the order of 40% more food; 30% more available fresh water and of the order of 50% more energy.


"We can't wait 20 years or 10 years indeed - this is really urgent."



BBC News - Report: Urgent action needed to avert global hunger