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Let's Talk About Hell (6)

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LutheranMafia

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Isa.33.10 Now, will I arise, Saith Yahweh, Now, will I lift myself up, Now, will I be exalted! 11 Ye shall conceive chaff Ye shall bring forth stubble,--Your own breath, like fire, shall devour you. 12 So shall peoples, become, as the burnings of lime,--As thorns lopped off, with fire, shall they be burned. 13 Hear--ye that are far off. what I have done, And know--ye that are near my might: 14 Terror-stricken in Zion,--are sinners, Shuddering hath seized the impious,--Who among us can sojourn with a fire that devoureth? Who among us can sojourn with burnings age-abiding?

it says peoples will become as the burnings of lime and thorns. So if people are as burnings of lime, and burnings of lime = burnings everlasting as the verses state, whatever the exact meaning is is unclear, at least to me. Saying it means people burn forever or don't isn't clear from those verses, at least to me it isn't.
Here is the other verse where siyd is translated as lime:
Thus said Jehovah: For three transgressions of Moab, And for four, I do not reverse it, Because of his burning the bones of the king of Edom to lime
Amos 2:1
Other translations say ashes; lime here means the carbon that is left over after something is completely burnt out. So lime can be burned forever without reducing or changing state.
 
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BobRyan

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To "have power over" someone you must be able to force them to do something against their will.

In the case of 1Sam 28 -- the witch claims to have power over dead saints to "conjure them up " on command.

Impossible to miss that detail in the text.

That witch is said to do this via the power and aid of her "familiar spirit". As Young's literal translation and many others point out - this is "in the text".

No news there for anyone who reads the Bible on that topic.

However the fact that the immortal soul side of this discussion is so prone to argue on behalf of the witch actually having the power that she claims over the dead saints -- should be a clear "sign" to the Bible students - to the objective unbiased readers.

And so it is helpful to bring this up so that they can see how naturally the immortal-soul argument takes up the cause of the witch in 1Sam 28.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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strangertoo

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thy kingdom comes, the Bible says.....not built. And Israel will be the head of the nations and Jesus will sit on the throne of david. We will travel back and forth from the new jerusalem to police the world, rule, and reign. We will also judge angels the Bible says. Then after the renovation of the earth and a new heaven and new earth come the new jerusalem will touch down in the middle east. It is then we will have an eternal estate and be able to enjoy heaven, after the millenial reign on earth for 1000 years.

read again :-

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world
 
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strangertoo

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In the case of 1Sam 28 -- the witch claims to have power over dead saints to "conjure them up " on command.

Impossible to miss that detail in the text.

That witch is said to do this via the power and aid of her "familiar spirit". As Young's literal translation and many others point out - this is "in the text".

No news there for anyone who reads the Bible on that topic.

However the fact that the immortal soul side of this discussion is so prone to argue on behalf of the witch actually having the power that she claims over the dead saints -- should be a clear "sign" to the Bible students - to the objective unbiased readers.

And so it is helpful to bring this up so that they can see how naturally the immortal-soul argument takes up the cause of the witch in 1Sam 28.

in Christ,

Bob

I would have thought the very last thing a witch wants to meet is a saint perfected in Love knowing all Truth of God , translated free of death ...
 
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createdtoworship

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read again :-

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world

the millenium kingdom will be Christs earthly kingdom, which was in heaven when He said that verse above, but now will be on earth when it comes "thy kingdom comes"

resultantly
THE MILLENIUM WILL BE HEAVENLY IN CHARACTER
"And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more" (Isa. 2:4). "But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins" (Isa. 11:4, 5). "Behold, the day is come, saith the Lord, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah. In those days, and at that time, I will cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The Lord our righteousness. For thus saith the Lord; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel" (Jer. 33:14-17). "And in that day I will make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely "(Hos. 2:18).

JERUSALEM DURING THE MILLENIUM WILL BE CALLED “THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS” - The second aspect of this fulfillment will be the restoration of Jerusalem as God’s dwelling place. The city that was about to be destroyed by Babylon (Jer. 33:4-5) will someday live in safety. Though this verse is also found in 23:6, Jeremiah pictured the safety of Israel and Judah through the ministry of the Messiah who was called “The Lord Our Righteousness.” However, by changing “Israel” to “Jerusalem” and by changing the preposition “he” to “it” (lit., to her”) Jeremiah made the title, The LORD Our Righteousness apply to the city of Jerusalem instead of to the Messiah. The city will take on the same characteristics as the Lord who will dwell within her (Ezek. 48:35).

4. Immanuel's kingdom will be established by the power of the returning King.

"That then the Lord will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee" (Deut. 30:3). "Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people. Gather my saints unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice" (Ps. 50:3-5). "For he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth" (Ps. 96:13). "Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the Lord, and many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee. And the Lord shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again. Be silent, O all flesh, before the Lord: for he is raised up out of his holy habitation" (Zech. 2:10-12). "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts. But who may abide the day of his coming? And who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: and he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness. Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the Lord, as in the days of old, and as in former years" (Mal. 3:1-4).
 
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strangertoo

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the millenium kingdom will be Christs earthly kingdom, which was in heaven when He said that verse above, but now will be on earth when it comes "thy kingdom comes"

almost, but not quite ... the kingdom of God , of Jesus, exists in the heart of all saints in this earth, all who follow Jesus and so do what he said, search the whole globe for the lost House of Israel, healing the sick , doing miracles as he did, serving the poor and needy as they go [relying on charty and work of their own hands, not parasites on the poor like modern sinner churchmen , sinner 'priests' [as if a priest of God could not be a saint] ...

the kingdom of God is thus alive and well on THIS earth and comes NEAR everyone as the true future priest-kings, saints, of God scour the earth contnuallyall their lives seeking the next generation of saints of the House of Israel's remnant whom alone Jesus said God sent him to find...

Luke 10:9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
...
Luke 10:11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
 
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createdtoworship

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almost, but not quite ... the kingdom of God , of Jesus, exists in the heart of all saints in this earth, all who follow Jesus and so do what he said, search the whole globe for the lost House of Israel, healing the sick , doing miracles as he did, serving the poor and needy as they go [relying on charty and work of their own hands, not parasites on the poor like modern sinner churchmen , sinner 'priests' [as if a priest of God could not be a saint] ...

the kingdom of God is thus alive and well on THIS earth and comes NEAR everyone as the true future priest-kings, saints, of God scour the earth contnuallyall their lives seeking the next generation of saints of the House of Israel's remnant whom alone Jesus said God sent him to find...

Luke 10:9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
...
Luke 10:11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

how can we beat swords into plows and how can the lion lay with the lamb, if His kingdom is simply in the heart and not real?

"And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more" (Isa. 2:4). "But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins" (Isa. 11:4, 5). "Behold, the day is come, saith the Lord, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah. In those days, and at that time, I will cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The Lord our righteousness. For thus saith the Lord; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel" (Jer. 33:14-17). "And in that day I will make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely "(Hos. 2:18).
 
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LutheranMafia

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However the fact that the immortal soul side of this discussion is so prone to argue on behalf of the witch actually having the power that she claims over the dead saints -- should be a clear "sign" to the Bible students - to the objective unbiased readers.
The SDA side accuses the Bible of being false. THAT should be the sign to objective unbiased readers. When the Bible says, “Samuel says” the SDA side of the argument is that the Bible is false and making a dishonest statement.

And so it is helpful to bring this up so that they can see how naturally the immortal-soul argument takes up the cause of the witch in 1Sam 28.
Arguing that the Bible is telling the truth is not taking up the cause of the witch. Your argument is twisted and intellectually dishonest.

In the case of 1Sam 28 -- the witch claims to have power over dead saints to "conjure them up " on command.

Impossible to miss that detail in the text.
Impossible to miss, unless you don't use the NASB, which is the only version to use the word conjure in verse 8. The KJV says divine, as does Young's Literal Translation, Green's Literal Translation, American Standard Version and English Standard Version. So how is divining a deceased spirit “having power over” that spirit? (To divine means to ask an oracle a question.)

I think the New King James Version does the best job of rendering this verse: “Please conduct a séance for me, and bring up for me the one I shall name to you.” This grounds the translation in modern venacular terminology. Using archaic language that has not been in common use in centuries, you can get confused and end up with a cartoon image in your head that is very fanciful. Hopefully using modern venacular terminology will ground this conversation and bring it back to reality. Do you believe that a séance is supposed to “have power over” deceased spirits? If so, what would the deceased be forced to do in a séance?

That witch is said to do this via the power and aid of her "familiar spirit". As Young's literal translation and many others point out - this is "in the text".
The concept of familiar spirits did not exist in Biblical times, so it is most definitely not in the text. It is only in English and French translations of the 1500's to the 1800’s. It is not in the original Hebrew, it was never in Greek or German translations of the Old Testament and it is not in any modern English translation. Young's translation is over a century old. Modern translators use basic common sense and realize that a Bible translation using a concept not invented until the Middle Ages is clearly an anachronism. Especially if that concept was limited to medieval England and France and not present in any other part of Europe or the rest of the world.

Your claim that "familiar spirits" is in the text is like trying to claim that the Bible was originally written in English.

No news there for anyone who reads the Bible on that topic.
You are quite conceited about your wacky anachronistic interpretation of the Bible, as though only SDA’s and Jehovah’s Witnesses read the Bible.
 
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BobRyan

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The SDA side accuses the Bible of being false.

Not even close.

Rather we argue with Martin Luther that the immortal soul idea is product of the mythology born in the dark ages.

In 1Sam 28 the text says that the familiar spirit of the witch is the power behind her work.

[FONT=&quot]NASB[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 7Then Saul said to his servants, "Seek for me a [/FONT][FONT=&quot]woman who is a medium[/FONT][FONT=&quot], that I may go to her and inquire of her[/FONT][FONT=&quot]." And his servants said to him, "Behold, there is a [/FONT][FONT=&quot]woman who is a medium at En-dor[/FONT][FONT=&quot]." [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 8Then Saul disguised himself by putting on other clothes, and went, he and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night; and he said, "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Conjure up [/FONT][FONT=&quot]for me, please, and bring up for me whom[/FONT][FONT=&quot] I shall name to you." [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 9But the woman said to him, "Behold, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off those who are mediums and spiritists from the land. Why are you then laying a snare for my life to bring about my death?" [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]KJV[/FONT]
7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.
9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]YLT[/FONT]
7 And Saul saith to his servants, `Seek for me a woman possessing a familiar spirit, and I go unto her, and inquire of her;' and his servants say unto him, `Lo, a woman possessing a familiar spirit in En-dor.'
8 And Saul disguiseth himself and putteth on other garments, and goeth, he and two of the men with him, and they come in unto the woman by night, and he saith, `Divine, I pray thee, to me by the familiar spirit, and cause to come up to me him whom I say unto thee.'
9 And the woman saith unto him, `Lo, thou hast known that which Saul hath done, that he hath cut off those having familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land; and why art thou laying a snare for my soul -- to put me to death?'

Darby –
7 Then said Saul to his servants, Seek me a woman that has a spirit of Python, that I may go to her and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman who has a spirit of Python at En-dor.
8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other garments, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night; and he said, I pray thee, divine to me by the spirit of Python, and bring me [him] up whom I shall name to thee.
9 And the woman said to him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul has done, how he has cut off the necromancers and the soothsayers out of the land; and why layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?

And Paul had his own encounter with those whose work - was in fact the work of demons -- in Acts 16

[FONT=&quot]DARBY – Acts 16[/FONT]
16 And it came to pass as we were going to prayer that a certain female slave, having a spirit of Python, met us, who brought much profit to her masters by prophesying.
17 She, having followed Paul and us, cried saying, These men are bondmen of the Most High God, who announce to you [the] way of salvation.
18 And this she did many days. And Paul, being distressed, turned, and said to the spirit, I enjoin thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And it came out the same hour.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]KJV – Acts 16[/FONT]
16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]YLT - Acts 16[/FONT]
16 And it came to pass in our going on to prayer, a certain maid, having a spirit of Python, did meet us, who brought much employment to her masters by soothsaying,[FONT=&quot][/FONT]


In both 1Chronicles 10 and in 1Samuel 28 the Bible points out that Saul is not making inquiry of God - but rather is making in inquiry of the witch.


This can not be an simpler.

No wonder Martin Luther himself - got the point.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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BobRyan

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In the case of 1Sam 28 -- the witch claims to have power over dead saints to "conjure them up " on command.

Impossible to miss that detail in the text.

That witch is said to do this via the power and aid of her "familiar spirit". As Young's literal translation and many others point out - this is "in the text".

No news there for anyone who reads the Bible on that topic.

However the fact that the immortal soul side of this discussion is so prone to argue on behalf of the witch actually having the power that she claims over the dead saints -- should be a clear "sign" to the Bible students - to the objective unbiased readers.

And so it is helpful to bring this up so that they can see how naturally the immortal-soul argument takes up the cause of the witch in 1Sam 28.


I would have thought the very last thing a witch wants to meet is a saint perfected in Love knowing all Truth of God , translated free of death ...

AS we read the text - the witch claims to have power OVER such beings - to conjure them up on command. Why should she fear them because in fact - they are nothing more than her own familiar spirit pretending to be the saint in question.



[FONT=&quot]NASB[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 7Then Saul said to his servants, "Seek for me a [/FONT][FONT=&quot]woman who is a medium[/FONT][FONT=&quot], that I may go to her and inquire of her[/FONT][FONT=&quot]." And his servants said to him, "Behold, there is a [/FONT][FONT=&quot]woman who is a medium at En-dor[/FONT][FONT=&quot]." [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 8Then Saul disguised himself by putting on other clothes, and went, he and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night; and he said, "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Conjure up [/FONT][FONT=&quot]for me, please, and bring up for me whom[/FONT][FONT=&quot] I shall name to you." [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 9But the woman said to him, "Behold, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off those who are mediums and spiritists from the land. Why are you then laying a snare for my life to bring about my death?" [/FONT]
The Bible makes it clear -- this is the work of her familiar spirit.

[FONT=&quot]KJV[/FONT]
7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.
9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?

[FONT=&quot]YLT[/FONT]
7 And Saul saith to his servants, `Seek for me a woman possessing a familiar spirit, and I go unto her, and inquire of her;' and his servants say unto him, `Lo, a woman possessing a familiar spirit in En-dor.'
8 And Saul disguiseth himself and putteth on other garments, and goeth, he and two of the men with him, and they come in unto the woman by night, and he saith, `Divine, I pray thee, to me by the familiar spirit, and cause to come up to me him whom I say unto thee.'
9 And the woman saith unto him, `Lo, thou hast known that which Saul hath done, that he hath cut off those having familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land; and why art thou laying a snare for my soul -- to put me to death?'

Darby –
7 Then said Saul to his servants, Seek me a woman that has a spirit of Python, that I may go to her and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman who has a spirit of Python at En-dor.
8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other garments, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night; and he said, I pray thee, divine to me by the spirit of Python, and bring me [him] up whom I shall name to thee.
9 And the woman said to him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul has done, how he has cut off the necromancers and the soothsayers out of the land; and why layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?

No wonder well-known Bible scholars like Matthew Henry "get the point" about the 1Sam 28 witch's seance not being an real appearance of anything other than a familiar spirit.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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LutheranMafia

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Rather we argue with Martin Luther that the immortal soul idea is product of the mythology born in the dark ages.
I differ with Luther here, I believe it is the spirit that is immortal, not the soul. The Bible refers to soul death a number of times, but it never refers to spirit death.

No wonder Martin Luther himself - got the point.
You got me here. After researching it I can only admit that you are correct about Luther.

I have noticed that instead of admitting defeat on any point where I have bested you that you ignore the point and move on.

As for me, I don't think that the Bible requires reading between the lines, I think it can be read at face value when it says "Samuel". I think that Luther was too intent on contradicting the Catholics and that it clouded his judgement in this case. I've been considering other denomination for some time. I've noticed that many Lutherans on Christian Forums have converted to Eastern Orthodox.
 
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DrBubbaLove

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I doubt a response is coming. When I pointed out in another thread that something being called a parable was nothing of the sort, there was no response. And that was after attempting to use that alledged "parable" example to discredit/dispargage my pointing out that Jesus uses spirits of the dead talking to one another in an actual parable.

I think some in the UT are too use to everyone agreeing with them and not being challenged on what is being posted. The lengths and liberties being taken with Scripture suggest the details of some of the views have not been well thought out.
 
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Phantasman

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My only comment in this thread would be that it must be an important subject to many people to discuss, debate and understand the wages of sins. This thread has the highest content of spectatorship, views and responses in the Unorthodox area and has split 4 times.

It is enough for me to know that it is a place to avoid at all costs. And Jesus tells me that I need not be concerned of it as long as I follow him. So I waste no time learning of hell and learn of Jesus more and more.

So why waste time talking of hell?
 
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tankerG

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My only comment in this thread would be that it must be an important subject to many people to discuss, debate and understand the wages of sins. This thread has the highest content of spectatorship, views and responses in the Unorthodox area and has split 4 times.

It is enough for me to know that it is a place to avoid at all costs. And Jesus tells me that I need not be concerned of it as long as I follow him. So I waste no time learning of hell and learn of Jesus more and more.

So why waste time talking of hell?

Good point! Though I agree with the reality of eternal punishment, I don't like it. We shouldn't be spending so much time debating the "mechanics" of hell that we miss snatching as many as we can out of its flames (Jude 23).

And the spectatorship (as you call it) is an important aspect. Typically, controversial threads such as this one may have as many as 10 times the views as replies. Obviously, alot of people are watching and reading the discussion but don't dare step into it. Hopefully, we're helping some of those "lurkers" that have serious questions.
 
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DrBubbaLove

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I think the "spectatorship" may not necessarily represent the level of bystanders interest as everytime someone posts I would typically view the thread to see what was said and to whom. Am pretty sure others do the same. So the viewed count would have to represent more than just bystander interest, it is the general interest of everyone in the new posts that keeps people coming by.

It would be interesting if the site differentiated between views by people already posted in the thread and those who are just following it.
 
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he-man

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I think the "spectatorship" may not necessarily represent the level of bystanders interest as everytime someone posts I would typically view the thread to see what was said and to whom. Am pretty sure others do the same. So the viewed count would have to represent more than just bystander interest, it is the general interest of everyone in the new posts that keeps people coming by.

It would be interesting if the site differentiated between views by people already posted in the thread and those who are just following it.
:amen:Psalm 145:18
(18) The LORD is near to all who call upon Him,
To all who call upon Him in truth.
 
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createdtoworship

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Liberal Theology
The roots of liberal theology (also referred to as modernism) may be traced to Germany in the eighteenth century. Immanuel Kant (1724–1804) is normally considered the father of modern religious liberalism. Kant denied the proofs for the existence of God, maintaining that man could know God only through reason. This approach was the outcome of the Enlightenment, which viewed tradition and biblical authority with suspicion and acclaimed the merit of reason. Friedrich Schleiermacher (1768–1834) brought a new feature to theology through his emphasis on “feeling” in religion. Schleiermacher attempted to make theology compatible with the modern mind. He taught that religion cannot be identified with creeds but rather with expressions of feeling, be they art, literature, or other expressions. Schleiermacher defined religions as “the feeling of absolute dependence.” Conversely, he identified sin as a selfish preoccupation with this world. George Hegel (1770–1831) carried liberal thought in another direction. Hegel brought the concept of evolution into history (and religion) when he taught that history is the meeting of opposing movements (thesis-antithesis) with the resultant blending of the two (synthesis). Many feel that it was Hegelian philosophy strongly influenced Ferdinand C. Baur (1792–1860) and Julius Wellhausen (1844–1918) in their critical studies of the Bible. Higher criticism was thus born, in which the traditional views concerning the authors of the biblical books are questioned.
The tenets of liberal theology include the following.9 Emphasis on human reason and experience: religious beliefs must pass the tests of human reason and the findings of science; and Christianity must be adapted to the modern world. The Bible is not an infallible, authoritative book: it is a record of the experiences of others; and it has exemplary but not dogmatic value. There is no distinction between natural and supernatural: distinction between God and nature, man and animals, Christ and man is played down; the logical result of this view is pantheism.
Liberalism was an optimistic view of life that lost its influence as a result of World War I, and through the advent of a new approach to religious beliefs called Neo-orthodoxy.


from
Enns, Paul P.: The Moody Handbook of Theology. Chicago, Ill. : Moody Press, 1997, c1989, S. 463
__________________
 
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createdtoworship

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Immortality of the soul, taught by the ancient greeks, but not fully accurate.....Early Christians were the first to believe in ONE soul that was eternal.

Turtullian states:

I will go further, and say that the soul does not even fall into sleep along with the body, nor does it with its companion even lie down in repose. For it is agitated in dreams, and disturbed: it might, however, rest, if it lay down; and lie down it certainly would, if it fell. Thus that which does not fall even into the likeness of death, does not succumb to the reality thereof. Passing now to the other word mortuorum, I wish you to look carefully, and see to what substance it is applicable. Were we to allow, under this head, as is sometimes held by the heretics, that the soul is mortal, so that being mortal it shall attain to a resurrection; this would afford a presumption that the flesh also, being no less mortal, would share in the same resurrection. But our present point is to derive from the proper signification of this word an idea of the destiny which it indicates. Now, just as the term resurrection is predicated of that which falls—that is, the flesh—so will there be the same application of the word dead, because what is called “the resurrection of the dead” indicates the rising up again of that which is fallen down. We learn this from the case of Abraham, the father of the faithful, a man who enjoyed close intercourse with God. For when he requested of the sons of Heth a spot to bury Sarah in, he said to them, “Give me the possession of a burying place with you, that I may bury my dead,”110 —meaning, of course, her flesh; for he could not have desired a place to bury her soul in, even if the soul is to be deemed mortal, and even if it could bear to be described by the word “dead.” Since, then, this word indicates the body, it follows that when “the resurrection of the dead” is spoken of, it is the rising again of men’s bodies that is meant.
110 Gen. xxiii. 4.

Roberts, Alexander ; Donaldson, James ; Coxe, A. Cleveland: The Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol. III : Translations of the Writings of the Fathers Down to A.D. 325. Oak Harbor : Logos Research Systems, 1997, S. 558

about Greek influence on Early Christians:

Some of them deny the immortality of the soul; others affirm that it is immortal, and something more... it will be for Christians to clear away....Whatever noxious vapours, accordingly, exhaled from philosophy, obscure the clear and wholesome atmosphere of truth,..., both by shattering to pieces the arguments which are drawn from the principles of things—I mean those of the philosophers—and by opposing to them the maxims of heavenly wisdom

Turtullian; Ibid. S. 184


If it had been possible to construct the soul and to destroy it, it would no longer be immortal. Since, however, it is not mortal, it is also incapable of dissolution and division.

Turtullian; Ibid. S. 193

The attributes that belong to the soul's own proper condition are these: immortality, rationality, sensibility, intelligence, and freedom of the will...All these endowments of the soul which are bestowed on it at birth are still obscured and depraved by the malignant being who, in the beginning, regarded them with envious eye, so that they are never seen in their spontaneous action, nor are they administered as they ought to be.

Turtullian; Ibid. S. 219

Being Himself immortal, God wills that the soul should also be everlasting

Lactantius (304-313, W), 7.77

"the body can do nothing without the soul. But the soul can do many and great things without the body....The soul is not the same thing as the mind. For it is one thing to live and another thing to think. And it is the mind of the sleeping person that is at rest--not the soul. And in those who are insane, it is the mind that is not functioning; the soul continues to function. For that reason, they are said to be out of the minds"

Lactantius; Ibid. 7.208, 209

"The soul cannot entirely perish, for it received its origin from the Spirit of God, which is eternal....So long as the soul is united with the body, it is destitute of virtue, and it grows sick by the contagion of the body and from sharing its frailty....However, once the soul is disunited from the body, it will flourish by itself.
...It is not the soul that becomes senseless when the body fails. Rather, it is the body that becomes senseless when the soul takes it departure"

"We acknowledge with us a soul that is incorporeal and immortal"
Apostolic Constitutions (compiled c.390, E), 7.454; extended discussion; 3.181-3.220; 4.286-4.289

For observe, these men asserted that the soul was immortal, or rather, they did not merely assert this, but persuaded others of it.

"and so these last were victorious over Plato and Pythagoras, in short, over all that had gone astray; and they surpass those whose lives had been worn out in31 astrology and geometry, mathematics and arithmetic, and who had been thoroughly instructed in32 every sort of learning, and33 were as much superior to them as true and real philosophers are superior to those who are by nature foolish and out of their senses.34 For observe, these men asserted that the soul was immortal, or rather, they did not merely assert this, but persuaded others of it. The Greeks, on the contrary, did not at first know what manner of thing the soul was, and when they had found out, and had distinguished it from the body, they were again in the same case, the one asserting that it was incorporeal, the other that it was corporeal and was dissolved with the body."
31 al. “who were familiar with.”
32 al. “had got together.”
33 al. “these they cast as dust, and.”
34 al. “so that these appeared henceforward to be truly philosophers, but those fools by nature and out of their senses.”

St. John Chrisostom
Schaff, Philip: The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers Vol. XIV. Oak Harbor : Logos Research Systems, 1997, S. 234

but we have an immortal soul, that we may use every means to prepare ourselves for that other life. For if one enquire the use of horses and asses and oxen, and other such-like animals, we shall tell him that it is nothing else but only to minister to the present life; but this cannot be said of us; our best condition is that which follows on our departure hence; and we must do all that we may shine there, that we may join the choir of Angels, and stand before the King continually, through endless55 ages. And therefore the soul is immortal, and the body shall be immortal too, that we may enjoy the never-ending blessings.
55 al. “incorrupt.”

St John Chrisostom; Ibid. S. 111


having filled His eleven disciples with His mighty31 power, He sent them to men throughout all the world, to be the common healers of all their kind,32 to correct their way of living, to spread through every part of the earth the knowledge of their heavenly doctrines, to break down the tyranny of devils, to teach those great and ineffable blessings, to bring to us the glad tidings of the soul’s immortality, and the eternal life of the body, and rewards which are beyond conception, and shall never have an end.
31 al. “a certain irresistible and divine.”
32 Or “of their whole nature.”


St John Chrisostom; Ibid. S. 42
 
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