Let's Talk About Hell (6)

[LutheranMafia]

This specifically says that the soul can die and it will. Jesus also said that the soul can be destroyed.

I have to agree with Timothew when he is right, which seldom happens, but this happens to be one of those cases. The "second death" refers to the death of the soul. Souls only become immortal at the resurrection.

 

[createdtoworship]

I have to agree with Timothew when he is right, which seldom happens, but this happens to be one of those cases. The "second death" refers to the death of the soul. Souls only become immortal at the resurrection.

how can that be the second death is AFTER the resurrection!

 

[createdtoworship]

I have to agree with Timothew when he is right, which seldom happens, but this happens to be one of those cases. The "second death" refers to the death of the soul. Souls only become immortal at the resurrection.

the soul doesn't die at death, it dies in Hell. The soul doesn't die in the grave but in eternal fire. Right?

 

[createdtoworship]

Then how come Saul couldn't see Samuel, only the witch could? Clearly the witch saw a spirit. She said she saw an elohim, which almost never refers to a physical being. Secondly, how do you suppose the witch of Endor got the ability to resurrect the dead? You are way out on a limb here, not even the JW's would argee with you on this one.

your right!

 

[Joshuaspitsfire]

I don't know if I believe in hell or should even worry about it. If hell is the motivation behind salvation. You will never gain salvation.

God and only God should be the reason, because that's what God wants for you.

Revelation is mostly symbolic.

Do you think locusts with human heads and crowns with lions teeth and horse bodies. With wings and scorpion tails are real?
Or is it symbolic?

Do you think your soul will burn and be in hell forever?
Hell is separation from God.
Armageddon is the battle within ones self. Like the temple of God is also the soul.
Who sits at your throne with in you?
Who's mark or belief system is in your forehead?
Whos mark is in your hand -whos works are you working?

Are you a witness spewing the "fire" or word of God?

I apologize if I've skewed from subject. My heart went there so I went with it.

 

[Timothew]

I have to agree with Timothew when he is right, which seldom happens,

Thank you!
BTW, I am right more often than you know. Actually, it is not me that is rigth, the bible is right and I just happen to agree with it.

 

[Timothew]

Then how come Saul couldn't see Samuel, only the witch could? Clearly the witch saw a spirit. She said she saw an elohim, which almost never refers to a physical being. Secondly, how do you suppose the witch of Endor got the ability to resurrect the dead? You are way out on a limb here, not even the JW's would argee with you on this one.

The JWs also don't agree with me on the divinity of Jesus Christ, so what they agree with is not really relevant in this case. God resurrects the dead, not the witch anyway. This was record in scripture, so it was according to God's plan that Samuel was temporarily resurrected. In any case, there are a lot of ways to understand this passage other than as a ghost story. So the passage doesn't prove what Gradyll wants to prove, that a soul can survive death and live on after the soul's body is dead.

 

[Timothew]

I don't know if I believe in hell or should even worry about it. If hell is the motivation behind salvation. You will never gain salvation.

God and only God should be the reason, because that's what God wants for you.

Revelation is mostly symbolic.

Do you think locusts with human heads and crowns with lions teeth and horse bodies. With wings and scorpion tails are real?
Or is it symbolic?

Do you think your soul will burn and be in hell forever?
Hell is separation from God.
Armageddon is the battle within ones self. Like the temple of God is also the soul.
Who sits at your throne with in you?
Who's mark or belief system is in your forehead?
Whos mark is in your hand -whos works are you working?

Are you a witness spewing the "fire" or word of God?

I apologize if I've skewed from subject. My heart went there so I went with it.

I think that you are pretty much bringing the thread back to the topic, "Let's talk about hell."

 

[createdtoworship]

there are a lot of ways to understand this passage other than as a ghost story. So the passage doesn't prove what Gradyll wants to prove, that a soul can survive death and live on after the soul's body is dead.

alot of ways? I only see two options, either it was a physical resurrection or it wasn't. You must have in mind many ways to interpret the passage right? What are some?

 

[Timothew]

alot of ways? I only see two options, either it was a physical resurrection or it wasn't. You must have in mind many ways to interpret the passage right? What are some?

Even if there are only 2 options, either he was physically resurrected or he wasn't, then this passage is not proof of an eternal soul that somehow survives being dead. It can be understood as a physical resurrection.

 

[LutheranMafia]

how can that be the second death is AFTER the resurrection!

That is correct. I don't see how this contradicts or mitigates anything that I said.

the soul doesn't die at death, it dies in Hell. The soul doesn't die in the grave but in eternal fire. Right?

Right.

 

[LutheranMafia]

It can be understood as a physical resurrection.

Then why couldn't Saul see him? You completely ignored this the last time I said it, presumably because you have no counter-argument.

Additionally, can you point to another example of an elohim being a physical being, much less a resurrected being? You also completely ignored this the last time I said it.

 

[Timothew]

Then why couldn't Saul see him? You completely ignored this the last time I said it, presumably because you have no counter-argument.

Additionally, can you point to another example of an elohim being a physical being, much less a resurrected being? You also completely ignored this the last time I said it.

Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore your point. I don't think that Saul couldn't see Samuel. It never says that Saul couldn't see Samuel. Why wouldn't he be able to see him?

Elohim being a physical being, How about Jesus Christ? Also, it says "one like the elohim" if I recall correctly.

 

[createdtoworship]

Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore your point. I don't think that Saul couldn't see Samuel. It never says that Saul couldn't see Samuel. Why wouldn't he be able to see him?

Elohim being a physical being, How about Jesus Christ? Also, it says "one like the elohim" if I recall correctly.

apparently only the woman mentions seeing him, and the others could only hear him. At least thats what is being said in the passage directly. It never says anyone saw him other than the woman.

 

[createdtoworship]

That is correct. I don't see how this contradicts or mitigates anything that I said.

you said...

The "second death" refers to the death of the soul. Souls only become immortal at the resurrection.

Souls never die accept in Hell, and the only ones who will go through that is those that go through the second death. So I guess I agree. But the important thing is that souls are immortal till death. Souls are not immortal because of the resurrection, the are immortal because they are not physical and don't decay and die like a physical element does. I believe the resurrection is for the immortalizing of the body.

 

[Timothew]

Saul can see Samuel, see?

 

[createdtoworship]

Saul can see Samuel, see?

I guess Jesus looked like a 16th century Scotsman too!

 

[he-man]

Souls never die accept in Hell, and the only ones who will go through that is those that go through the second death. So I guess I agree. But the important thing is that souls are immortal till death. Souls are not immortal because of the resurrection, the are immortal because they are not physical and don't decay and die like a physical element does. I believe the resurrection is for the immortalizing of the body.

Firstly, the second death implies that it is after the first resurrection which is for the prophets and therefore there will be a second resurrection for the other believers and death for the unbelieving.

Secondly, there is no immortality of the Spirit before resurrection, ONLY GOD has immortality.

1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. This is the first resurrection

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[createdtoworship]

Firstly, the second death implies that it is after the first resurrection which is for the prophets and therefore there will be a second resurrection for the other believers and death for the unbelieving.

Secondly, there is no immortality of the Spirit before resurrection, ONLY GOD has immortality.

1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. This is the first resurrection

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

actually the second resurrection is for the wicked to judge them in their full faculties and then to send them to Hell afterward.

what the second resurrection is not, is for "other believers"

now there will be something called gleanings which includes tribulation saint to be resurrected (which is between the 1st and 2nd resurrection)

 

[he-man]

actually the second resurrection is for the wicked to judge them in their full faculties and then to send them to Hell afterward. what the second resurrection is not, is for "other believers"
now there will be something called gleanings which includes tribulation saint to be resurrected (which is between the 1st and 2nd resurrection)

Oh really? Then you for one thing, what happens to those who live during the thousand years? Do they all just go to the grave? Since there is no literal hell only the second death.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.