The best evidence for Creationism

[AV1611VET]

I believe you when you say there is no evidence for creation,

Suuuuure you do.

You just like to ask/demand it from time to time, right?

 

[Davian]

LOL -- like that one time when we asked for evidence for god, and you know, there wasn't any --LOL

I believe you when you say there is no evidence for creation, which necessarily leads one to conclude it never happened. So, what you perceive as us asking for evidence for something that never happened, we see you as believing something without justification.

He does have justification. He wants it to be true.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

Suuuuure you do.

You just like to ask/demand it from time to time, right?

I tend to ask where the evidence is when one claims something happened, but there's no evidence for the claim. That's when I go suuuuuuure buddy, and I've got ocean front property in AZ.

 

[AV1611VET]

I tend to ask where the evidence is when one claims something happened, but there's no evidence for the claim.

That might work in the natural world, but eventually you'll make the mistake of applying that to God, and you'll get a wake-up call.

Then you'll whine and pout, but still not get what you want.

You guys are like the proverbial kid being pushed through the aisle in a shopping cart by his mother, whining, "I want this! I want that!" And the mother says, "No", and then... well ... then the whine-vent-ridicule triad starts.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

That might work in the natural world, but eventually you'll make the mistake of applying that to God, and you'll get a wake-up call.

Then you'll whine and pout, but still not get what you want.

You guys are like the proverbial kid being pushed through the aisle in a shopping cart by his mother, whining, "I want this! I want that!" And the mother says, "No", and then... well ... then the whine-vent-ridicule triad starts.

Applying the laws of nature and the scientific method to anything, including your claim of a god(s), is the only criteria that has ever worked, for anything, at any time. If your god ever calls, I'll be ready, and trust you me, he'll be shamed and embarrased by the time I'm done with it, 'cause he's got a lot of 'splaining to do!

As for kids, once they grow up, they jettison beliefs in myths, and take reality like a (wo)man.

 

[AV1611VET]

If your god ever calls, I'll be ready, and trust you me, he'll be shamed and embarrased by the time I'm done with it, 'cause he's got a lot of 'splaining to do!

I remember a radio preacher once mentioning that he had gotten an opportunity to actually meet Prisident Nixon for a Q&A session.

He said that, as he sat in the lobby with others, they talked big; with each one mentioning how he was going to 'get answers' to tough questions.

Suddenly, the door opened and out stepped the President; and not one person acted tough.

I guarantee you, when you come into the presence of Almighty God -- and you will -- you'll bow the knee.

 

[mkatzwork]

Unfortunately, various people then did ask Nixon some tough questions and it all went downhill from there...

I remember a radio preacher once mentioning that he had gotten an opportunity to actually meet Prisident Nixon for a Q&A session.

He said that, as he sat in the lobby with others, they talked big; with each one mentioning how he was going to 'get answers' to tough questions.

Suddenly, the door opened and out stepped the President; and not one person acted tough.

I guarantee you, when you come into the presence of Almighty God -- and you will -- you'll bow the knee.

 

[thaumaturgy]

I guarantee you, when you come into the presence of Almighty God -- and you will -- you'll bow the knee.

So when that glorious day comes when all the people whom you found unsavory are brought low before God, do you think God will let you be around to watch it? Or would God say "Gee, that seems a lot like a revenge fantasy and it isn't particularly seemly for one of my followers."

Nah, I bet God will say "hey, AV, come on over and watch me debase some of my creations! You'll like this!"

Will that be like the bestest day in heaven? I bet it will. Then you and God can have a cold brewsky and talk about how many knees were bent!

And God will say "Ya know, AV, you're one of my faves, and you TOLD them this would happen! Now they know! They see you now!"

 

[CaliforniaSun]

I remember a radio preacher once mentioning that he had gotten an opportunity to actually meet Prisident Nixon for a Q&A session.

He said that, as he sat in the lobby with others, they talked big; with each one mentioning how he was going to 'get answers' to tough questions.

Suddenly, the door opened and out stepped the President; and not one person acted tough.

I guarantee you, when you come into the presence of Almighty God -- and you will -- you'll bow the knee.

Nixon was impeached eventually, and lived the rest of his days ignominiously. The god described in the bible makes Nixon look like a saint.

P.S. I bend my knee for no one. I have rights granted to me by the U.S. constitution by virtue of my birth, and that is a right I shall never give up.

You can bend your knee to whomever you choose.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

Nixon was not impeached.

Technically no. He resigned rather than face certain impeachment and further humiliation. This changes my point how, exactly?

 

[AV1611VET]

So when that glorious day comes when all the people whom you found unsavory are brought low before God, do you think God will let you be around to watch it?

We will be there too -- bowing our knees as well.

 

[AV1611VET]

That is a interesting perspective. But what about the belief that: If it were not for the grace of God, there go I?

Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank You that I am not like other menextortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, God, be merciful to me a sinner! 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

Norman, my pastor believes that Pharisee went on-and-on praying, but that God, after hearing his first two sentences, said, "That's enough of that," and listened to the publican.

 

[AV1611VET]

Technically no. He resigned rather than face certain impeachment and further humiliation. This changes my point how, exactly?

What point? your red herring? it has exactly nothing to do with the point I made.

 

[NailsII]

"evolution" is a faith. the chances of it happening are impossible. the proof? since the character limit doesn't allow me to copy and paste the whole thing,
on mathematics of evolution .com on chapter 15 and icr.org article entitled, The Mathematical Impossibility Of Evolution

If evolution is impossible, and must be a faith position, all you have done is degrade faith.

The Universe has a beginning(most scientist agree), it is not infinite thus logically something must of brought it into existence that has always existed and is uncaused. logically that first uncaused cause is, God.

So logially Yahweh must have a beginning, and this was caused by Thor.

Because again, no random act could've created this earth, has to be something intelligent. thus that first uncaused cause is intelligent, thus it is God.

If no random act could create the earth (and I agree with you on this) then the logical conclusion is that it was then made by a non-random act.

Because again, no random act could've created this earth, has to be something intelligent. thus that first uncaused cause is intelligent, thus it is God. saying that it would happen randomly and accidentally for the sake of it would reply on faith not fact. it is a fact that this earth has intelligent design, and since it has that, logically it must have an intelligent designer, God. to say otherwise would rely on mere faith, that's why "atheism" is nothing but a faith. when it is logically and mathematically impossible for "evolution" to have occurred, and you say otherwise, then that is just relying on faith and not fact.

If 'atheists' are just silly because they believe on faith that the universe is made by purely random processes, then yes you can say that they are not basing their beliefs on any facts.
Logically and mathematically the universe was not created by randomness, and scientific models of the universe are based on observations and facts. Your inability to understand science or maths let alone evolutionary theory means that you attacking one huge sraw man here.

Whereas God is logically and substantially possible. The evidence leads to a creator, God.

Heck , that sounds just like William Lane Craig.

Gods may be possible, that is irrelevant. There is no evidence for a creator, nor should there be - because if there was, he wouldn't ask you to consider faith a virtue, would he?
If you think that god made the earth as written in the bible, how do you know that the bible was not written by humans without any divine input?

So you admit God's existence is possible. face it, only one and one way only that all those logically and mathematically impossibilities(as explained above) would have occurred is if God made it happen, that is the only way "evolution" can be logical. So again, either God made the earth the way he did in the bible(which is the most logical and possible) or he guided the evolution.(the only logical way evolution happened is with God)

But if the bible is literally true, god made everything ex nihilo and so evolution never happened.
Which is wierd, because guided evolution is a non-starter because animals go extinct - so their evolution isn't so well guided, is it?

That is why I am a Young Earth Creationist, God creating the earth the way he says in The Bible makes the most logical, possible and scientific sense.

That is a faith position which are entitled to take.
To claim that it is logical uses a different definition of the word from which I am used to.
It is possible, yes - but not probable.
It certainly doesn't make sense, and science does not back up the bible at all. Again, if it did, you wouldn't need faith.

No, irreducible complexity shows all or nothing. an accident statistically cannot make something so complex and this is common sense.

Irreducible complexity and sense - now there is two phrases that you don't often find together.
Speaking of common sense, look up at the sky during the daytime and tell me which way the sun is moving in the sky. Science tells us that the sun is stationary (from our perspective, I know that it does move) and we move around the sun. Science doesn't have to follow our notion of common sense, it deals with facts - otherwise quantum theory would never have made it anywhere.

"evolution" is like saying a pencil can magically scribble itself on a paper until it forms a proper sentence, that would never happen. the only way a sentence can be formed is if someone who has the power, knowledge, and will to write a sentence, wrote a sentence on purpose. nothing more to it. only way one would think those mathematically and logically impossible accidents happened is if they threw all logic out the window and relied on faith.

If it was, then no-one would accept it as a working scientific theory.
So lets see if you can logicallly follow through this argument.

Me sacrificing myself for a loved one, for love doesn't have anything at all to do with survival of fittest. that would actually be the complete opposite, in no way would that keep us surviving. to deny that we all have obligated objective morals and love that we live by and to say that they evolved from "survival of the fittest" when they in no way help us survive is illogical and relies wholly on faith. again "atheism" and "evolution" is nothing but a faith.

Your inability to understand evolution, what it claims or how it works is not relevent.
Objective morality is questionable as best.
Moral choices depend upon context, and are therfore subjective.

Still, you fail to say why rape is wrong, that doesn't give any logical explanation to why it is wrong. someone can get raped and not get pregnant and it is still wrong and traumatizing. rape isn't wrong because it destroys parent bond, it is wrong because it is sick and takes advantage of another person. evolution cannot explain evil. evolution cannot explain love and unselfishness. love isn't selfish and it isn't in anyway for survival.

Rape is used as a legitimate tactic of war in the old testament - so does god think it it wrong?
If it wasn't wrong in biblical times, but is wrong now, then we have a subjective morals - right?

see this is where you rely on faith to imply that the reason rape is wrong is because it "destroys parent bond" , that is not why it is wrong and you know it. I assume you have morals, so i ask you, do you feel rape is wrong? and if you do(hopefully you do because it is wrong) why is it wrong to you? if you think morals aren't objective and that nothing matters, what prevents you from not breaking morals?

I personally think that rape is wrong because it is the domination of one person against their will. It hurts physically and mentally and is not an act that a loving human being would ever inflit on another.

If you say you think rape is wrong because of "evolution" and "destroys parent bonds" then I would be really shocked. I'm sure you know better than that, I'm sure you know rape is wrong because it's sickening, abuse, traumatizing, and just pure evil.

I agree, it is sick and evil.

That was an example. the "evolution" theory is that the fit survive and "evolve" and that that the weak die off. so if evolution happened there would be no problem with killing or raping to "evolve" or get rid of 'weak'. but no there is a problem with killing and raping, killing IS wrong, rape IS wrong. "evolution" doesn't explain why at the heart rape, killing and violence are wrong and sickening, it just comes up with illogical excuses.

Again, your failure to understand - some might argue you havn't even read any literature on evolution which wasn't produced by an anti-evolutionist group - is no basis for an argument.
So my point is - if humans have objective morals, and these are dictated by god, why is something so obviously wrong as rape not in the commandments?
Why does god appear to allow rape and murder as a tactic of war?
What about child rape and murder?

So you're saying we have morals because society says so and keeps in check? sorry but that fails, when we feel compassion or love we don't think about what society thinks or "survival".

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here.

If someone were to rape a loved one, I would get sad because the person I love was violated, hurt, abused, and I wouldn't want to see anyone suffer that. not because it "decreases parent bond" or because society says so but because plain and simple, it is sick. no way anyone can defend rape and murder unless they are twisted.

Or followers of Yahweh, so it would seem.

How? that's actually true. as explained, "evolution" doesn't explain morals. the facts are morals go beyond us, we don't control them. if I felt regret for doing something wrong, "evolution" would not, and could not explain it. the fact would be, I feel bad for doing something wrong because I knew it was wrong, you rely on faith, that takes all logic out the window, that "evolution" would explain morals when it simple cannot.

Social animals must have some kind of organisation in order to maintain a social group - otherwise there would be chaos.
In nature we often see a social heirarchy, an alpha male or female, and parental care.
We don't see random acts of aggression, rape, torture or anarchy as the norm in nature - so what does that tell you?
By the way, if you are going to argue that social cohesion in animals is only possible due to god, then you might want to explain why he had to give us written commandments yet didn't need to give them to other animals.
And if faith takes all logic out of the window, why does religion rely so heavily on faith?

That is just a fact, unless someone is a sociopath with no understanding of morality, they are lying. if you were to tell me that "killing is right" or that "rape is right", then you are either a sociopath or lying because you know that it is wrong.

If killing can never be right, is the killing of a child-molesting monster who has hold of your child the right or wrong thing to do?

Sorry but "evolution" doesn't have any logical explanation on morality, none. doesn't explain where morals come from, doesn't explain why there are objective morals. they only assume that morals aren't objective or created for survival (which they are not as I explained)

If you read up on some biology you might want to re-think this part of your post.

It is impossible to be an "atheist", "atheism" does not exist. you cannot prove it, there is no evidence to completely not believe. when it is shown that it is impossible for an intelligent creator not to exist from an evolutionary standpoint, it is then completely impossible for God not to exist. either a person acknowledges God, doesn't know, is unsure, or blatantly denies him.

It is therefore impossible to be a theist as you cannot prove it and there is no evidence for a creator.
I personally don't think there is any credible evidence for any god nor any reason to think that there should be one.

I am a Christian because of my personal experience, and because the scientific, historical, and logical evidence all points to Christianity, to The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit... God.

If all the evidence points to god, why do religions need faith?
This is a contradictory position, and if all the evidence did indeed lead to god, you really would have to be a fool not to believe.
So why do people not believe? Is it because your statement is incorrect, and in fact there is no evidence that leads to god unless you already believe in the first place - which means that your interpretation of the evidence is as subjective as your morals?

 

[thaumaturgy]

We will be there too -- bowing our knees as well.

Oh, OK. That's OK,then.

So long as we all have a purpose.

 

[HoopsMcCaan]

NailsII,

The title of your post is ironic unless you were trying to one up SavedByChrist94 because your post had exactly zero facts. Unless you count that the earth revolves around the sun, which by you noting, proves just what a scientific genius you are. And because "You're too dumb to get it" is the universal outcry of the evolutionist, please explain through biology what SavedByChrist94 just isn't understanding about evolution.

"No evidence for a creator" is quite comical to me. I can name approximately 18 trillion evidences for Him, but none of them are big words, they're easily explained, and don't need website links to back them up, which is why you dismiss them because the layman can easily understand them. Pretty ironic that you have to be super duper smart, as you proclaim to be, to ignore God's creation.

But you're so incredibly smart and gifted, you know exactly how God would think, if there were one. I'll give you a hint, your brain is human, fallible and not even remotely close to all knowing. That fact that, according to evolutionists, we evolved from a primordial soup indicates that we were destined to become super geniuses! Why WOULDN'T we know all the ins and outs of the universe with our one off monkey brains?

God most certainly exists. I pray that one day you will be shown that. If you seek God, you will find Him. Most unbelievers want nothing to do with God, and therefore seek the evidences they desire so they can rest easy. Through my life, and doubts, and hopes and fears, I was given proof by God himself that He's real, He's watching, and one day, sooner or later, you will find that out.

God Bless you, NailsII. You're in my prayers tonight. Fortunately, my God answers prayers. Always has.

Peace

 

[NGC 6712]

Fortunately, my God answers prayers. Always has.

No he hasn't unless you never pray and therefore you are batting 0 for 0.

 

[Guy1]

NailsII,

The title of your post is ironic unless you were trying to one up SavedByChrist94 because your post had exactly zero facts. Unless you count that the earth revolves around the sun, which by you noting, proves just what a scientific genius you are. And because "You're too dumb to get it" is the universal outcry of the evolutionist, please explain through biology what SavedByChrist94 just isn't understanding about evolution.

"No evidence for a creator" is quite comical to me. I can name approximately 18 trillion evidences for Him, but none of them are big words, they're easily explained, and don't need website links to back them up, which is why you dismiss them because the layman can easily understand them. Pretty ironic that you have to be super duper smart, as you proclaim to be, to ignore God's creation.

But you're so incredibly smart and gifted, you know exactly how God would think, if there were one. I'll give you a hint, your brain is human, fallible and not even remotely close to all knowing. That fact that, according to evolutionists, we evolved from a primordial soup indicates that we were destined to become super geniuses! Why WOULDN'T we know all the ins and outs of the universe with our one off monkey brains?

God most certainly exists. I pray that one day you will be shown that. If you seek God, you will find Him. Most unbelievers want nothing to do with God, and therefore seek the evidences they desire so they can rest easy. Through my life, and doubts, and hopes and fears, I was given proof by God himself that He's real, He's watching, and one day, sooner or later, you will find that out.

God Bless you, NailsII. You're in my prayers tonight. Fortunately, my God answers prayers. Always has.

Peace

Hey bro. You're doing that thing where you're typing ... but not really saying anything.

 

[HoopsMcCaan]

Hey bro. You're doing that thing where you're typing ... but not really saying anything.

Pot, meet kettle.

 

[HoopsMcCaan]

No he hasn't unless you never pray and therefore you are batting 0 for 0.

Agree to disagree.