Physics and the Immortality of the Soul

[Illuminaughty]

But can you distinguish the mind from the body?

I have experiences I label "body". Other experiences I label "mind". That's mostly for the sake of convenience though and not a strict definition of anything. I tend to view "body" as an experience within mind but admittedly I would have trouble proving it. Many go with the opposite starting assumption that mind is simply an epiphenomena of matter which is equally hard to prove. The former just coincides with my experience and intuition.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

I have experiences I label "body". Other experiences I label "mind". That's mostly for the sake of convenience though and not a strict definition of anything. I tend to view "body" as an experience within mind but admittedly I would have trouble proving it. Many go with the opposite starting assumption that mind is simply an epiphenomena of matter which is equally hard to prove. The former just coincides with my experience and intuition.

There is no reason to believe that the mind is anything but a process of the body. It gets special treatment for some reason. How come people don't argue that the ability to concentrate urine is separate from the body? If the function of the kidney is clearly a bodily process, why isn't the function of the brain also clearly a bodily process?

 

[Illuminaughty]

There is no reason to believe that the mind is anything but a process of the body.

The body could just as well be a process of the mind.

 

[Illuminaughty]

To quote two imminent men of science:

"The stream of knowledge is heading towards a non-mechanical reality; the Universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter... we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter."

Sir James Jeans

"The stuff of the world is mind-stuff"....."The mind-stuff of the world is, of course, something more general than our individual conscious minds…. The mind-stuff is not spread in space and time; these are part of the cyclic scheme ultimately derived out of it…. It is necessary to keep reminding ourselves that all knowledge of our envi-ronment from which the world of physics is constructed, has entered in the form of messages transmitted along the nerves to the seat of consciousness…. Consciousness is not sharply defined, but fades into subconsciousness; and beyond that we must postulate something indefinite but yet continuous with our mental nature…. It is difficult for the matter-of-fact physicist to accept the view that the substratum of everything is of mental character. But no one can deny that mind is the first and most direct thing in our experience, and all else is remote inference."

Sir Arthur Eddington​

 

[AV1611VET]

To quote two imminent men of science:

"The stream of knowledge is heading towards a non-mechanical reality; the Universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter... we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter."

Sir James Jeans

"The stuff of the world is mind-stuff"....."The mind-stuff of the world is, of course, something more general than our individual conscious minds…. The mind-stuff is not spread in space and time; these are part of the cyclic scheme ultimately derived out of it…. It is necessary to keep reminding ourselves that all knowledge of our envi-ronment from which the world of physics is constructed, has entered in the form of messages transmitted along the nerves to the seat of consciousness…. Consciousness is not sharply defined, but fades into subconsciousness; and beyond that we must postulate something indefinite but yet continuous with our mental nature…. It is difficult for the matter-of-fact physicist to accept the view that the substratum of everything is of mental character. But no one can deny that mind is the first and most direct thing in our experience, and all else is remote inference."

Sir Arthur Eddington​

Please don't tell me you're one of those who have [collectively] diverted an approaching storm? or made the clouds go away?

 

[Illuminaughty]

Please don't tell me you're one of those who have [collectively] diverted an approaching storm? or made the clouds go away?

I can't say I ever tried.

 

[AV1611VET]

I can't say I ever tried.

Seeing around corners? high-level eavesdropping? astral projecting? action at a distance?

None of the above, I hope?

 

[Illuminaughty]

astral projecting?

I've done that a few times. No psychic spying for the CIA though.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

The body could just as well be a process of the mind.

If you want to reduce the universe to Matrix-esque philosophical mumbo-jumbo, sure, this could all be a product of imagination. But the universe seems to work based on rules and reproducibility, so the only way to live is to work with those rules (in my opinion).

 

[AV1611VET]

But the universe seems to work based on rules and reproducibility,

Unless it doesn't -- right?

Like the Big Bang and abiogenesis?

Or are those [convenient] exceptions to reproducibility?

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

Unless it doesn't -- right?

Like the Big Bang and abiogenesis?

Or are those [convenient] exceptions to reproducibility?

1. Everyone has to start with a fundamental philosophical assumption in order to live a seemingly meaningful life

2. I don't have to re-create the big bang or abiogenesis to have good science supporting that they happened. The fact that you expect "reproducing" those things as the only way to show they happened shows how little you know about the topics themselves or science in general.

 

[Norman321]

I tend to view "body" as an experience within mind but admittedly I would have trouble proving it.

To some degree we can use prayer, meditation or even hypnosis to control pain and other issues with the body. So I do see a little bit the control the mind has over the body. Actually what amazes me though is that just about everyone person I know that does construction work, believes in mind over matter. Esp the people who work with huge amounts of weight up to 100 tons at a time. It always amazes people how easy it is to move that much weight. I love to set up these big heavy weight lifters. They try to move something and it is difficult for them. Then I go get a little 12 year old girl. Show her how to move that much weight and it becomes almost effortless for her.

 

[Norman321]

what the definition for mind and will is.

Definitions aren't that complicated

The Catholic Encyclopedia talks about a distinction between soul and mind. They tend to believe that the real assault on the belief in a soul has to do with it's existence after death.

"The question of the reality of the soul and its distinction from the body is among the most important problems of philosophy, for with it is bound up the doctrine of a future life. Various theories as to the nature of the soul have claimed to be reconcilable with the tenet of immortality, but it is a sure instinct that leads us to suspect every attack on the substantiality or spirituality of the soul as an assault on the belief in existence after death."

 

[Elendur]

The Catholic Encyclopedia talks about a distinction between soul and mind. They tend to believe that the real assault on the belief in a soul has to do with it's existence after death.

"The question of the reality of the soul and its distinction from the body is among the most important problems of philosophy, for with it is bound up the doctrine of a future life. Various theories as to the nature of the soul have claimed to be reconcilable with the tenet of immortality, but it is a sure instinct that leads us to suspect every attack on the substantiality or spirituality of the soul as an assault on the belief in existence after death."

I doubt assault is the correct term.
assault - definition of assault by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
"A violent physical or verbal attack."

If it is one of the most important problems of philosophy it should be discussed. To use the term assault is merely a provocation to both sides.

 

[mzungu]

The Catholic Encyclopedia talks about a distinction between soul and mind. They tend to believe that the real assault on the belief in a soul has to do with it's existence after death.

"The question of the reality of the soul and its distinction from the body is among the most important problems of philosophy, for with it is bound up the doctrine of a future life. Various theories as to the nature of the soul have claimed to be reconcilable with the tenet of immortality, but it is a sure instinct that leads us to suspect every attack on the substantiality or spirituality of the soul as an assault on the belief in existence after death."

Philosophy is not bound by the rules governing science. Now will someone please give me a scientific definition of "SOUL"? Anyone

 

[AV1611VET]

Now will someone please give me a scientific definition of "SOUL"?

That's like asking for a Biblical definition of quantum electrodynamics.

 

[mzungu]

That's like asking for a Biblical definition of quantum electrodynamics.

Don't look at me; I'm not the one who insists on mixing science with religion.

 

[AV1611VET]

Don't look at me; I'm not the one who insists on mixing science with religion.

Then why do you want a definition of soul?

 

[Guy1]

Then why do you want a definition of soul?

Because there are people here who do want to mix religion and science. They want us to buy into their "evidence" when they haven't even defined What they insist they're substantiating.

 

[AV1611VET]

Because there are people here who do want to mix religion and science. They want us to buy into their "evidence" when they haven't even defined What they insist they're substantiating.

Didn't God create nature, then give us scientists to interpret it?