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Creationism V Evolution.

USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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The new fossil, Paleohyrax reprobae, differs from modern rabbits in a number of subtle anatomical ways, lending weight to it being truly a new species from the Cambrian era. “This is definitely not a modern rabbit,” said Dr Splenebyrst. “It was about half the size and may even have been carnivorous. It appears to have been foraging for trilobites in the ancient tidal pools.”


What does it take for you to understand my point? There was no oxygen atmosphere in the Precambrian. There are no Precambrian fossils of terrestrial life whatsoever. All Precambrian fossils are of marine origin.

That's crazy talk. I can accept a Cambrian marine rabbit, but any talk of it being a carnivore is insane. Carnivores didn't evolve until the Eocene.​
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Right. and movies don't exist either. They are actually just a bunch of separately created still images and they are in no way related, right?

No matter how many transitional fossils we find, you are going to say those are 'fully formed' as well and you'll then see 2 more holes to fill on either side of those.

Tell me, what would we need to find to prove that evolution occurred?

I have a feeling he would want extant Amniote species X giving birth (or laying a clutch of eggs hatching) to distantly related extant Amniote species Y.

Of course such a thing would falsify evolution, but Creationists can never move those goalposts far enough.
 
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Split Rock

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Pretty much like your morph software. Even though that is a trick and one does not really change into the other. Like the Cambrian explosion. you would have to have a different fossil at the end of the era compared to the fossils you find at the beginning. As fossil record is, once something appears, it does not change.The bottom line for Christians is that you have 30,000 generations of E Coli. You start with E Coli and in the end you still have E Coli. With the fruit flys, you start with a fruit fly, in the end that is all you have is a fruit fly. So your experments with E Coli and the Fruit flys BOTH show me that micro evolution is true. You clearly have variation and individual species adapting and fine tuning themselves.
One cannot escape one's ancestry... no evolutionary biologist would claim different. Just as fruit flies only give rise to fruit flies, eukaryotes only give rise to eukaryotes, animals only give rise to animals, vertebrates only give rise to vertebrates, tetrapods only give rise to tetrapods, mammals only give rise to mammals, primates only give rise to primates and humans only give rise to humans. That is why our ancestors were primates, mammals, tetrapods, vertebrates, animals, and eukaryotes.


But there is no evidence for macro evolution. You do not have one species change into another species.
Are you under the impression that "fruit fly" is a species?? They are an entire family Tephritidae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia **excuse me.. two families** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drosophilidae

As far as speciation, yes it has been observed, even in fruit flies. Here is just the part of Lucaspa's famous Observed Speciation list that deals with insects:

Speciation in Insects
1. G Kilias, SN Alahiotis, and M Pelecanos. A multifactorial genetic investigation of speciation theory using drosophila melanogaster Evolution 34:730-737, 1980. Got new species of fruit flies in the lab after 5 years on different diets and temperatures. Also confirmation of natural selection in the process. Lots of references to other studies that saw speciation.
2. JM Thoday, Disruptive selection. Proc. Royal Soc. London B. 182: 109-143, 1972.
Lots of references in this one to other speciation.
3. KF Koopman, Natural selection for reproductive isolation between Drosophila pseudobscura and Drosophila persimilis. Evolution 4: 135-148, 1950. Using artificial mixed poulations of D. pseudoobscura and D. persimilis, it has been possible to show,over a period of several generations, a very rapid increase in the amount of reproductive isolation between the species as a result of natural selection.
4. LE Hurd and RM Eisenberg, Divergent selection for geotactic response and evolution of reproductive isolation in sympatric and allopatric populations of houseflies. American Naturalist 109: 353-358, 1975.
5. Coyne, Jerry A. Orr, H. Allen. Patterns of speciation in Drosophila. Evolution. V43. P362(20) March, 1989.
6. Dobzhansky and Pavlovsky, 1957 An incipient species of Drosophila, Nature 23: 289- 292.
7. Ahearn, J. N. 1980. Evolution of behavioral reproductive isolation in a laboratory stock of Drosophila silvestris. Experientia. 36:63-64.
8. 10. Breeuwer, J. A. J. and J. H. Werren. 1990. Microorganisms associated with chromosome destruction and reproductive isolation between two insect species. Nature. 346:558-560.
9. Powell, J. R. 1978. The founder-flush speciation theory: an experimental approach. Evolution. 32:465-474.
10. Dodd, D. M. B. and J. R. Powell. 1985. Founder-flush speciation: an update of experimental results with Drosophila. Evolution 39:1388-1392. 37. Dobzhansky, T. 1951. Genetics and the origin of species (3rd edition). Columbia University Press, New York.
11. Dobzhansky, T. and O. Pavlovsky. 1971. Experimentally created incipient species of Drosophila. Nature. 230:289-292.
12. Dobzhansky, T. 1972. Species of Drosophila: new excitement in an old field. Science. 177:664-669.
13. Dodd, D. M. B. 1989. Reproductive isolation as a consequence of adaptive divergence in Drosophila melanogaster. Evolution 43:1308-1311.
14. de Oliveira, A. K. and A. R. Cordeiro. 1980. Adaptation of Drosophila willistoni experimental populations to extreme pH medium. II. Development of incipient reproductive isolation. Heredity. 44:123-130.15. 29. Rice, W. R. and G. W. Salt. 1988. Speciation via disruptive selection on habitat preference: experimental evidence. The American Naturalist. 131:911-917.
30. Rice, W. R. and G. W. Salt. 1990. The evolution of reproductive isolation as a correlated character under sympatric conditions: experimental evidence. Evolution. 44:1140-1152.
31. del Solar, E. 1966. Sexual isolation caused by selection for positive and negative phototaxis and geotaxis in Drosophila pseudoobscura. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (US). 56:484-487.
32. Weinberg, J. R., V. R. Starczak and P. Jora. 1992. Evidence for rapid speciation following a founder event in the laboratory. Evolution. 46:1214-1220.
33. V Morell, Earth's unbounded beetlemania explained. Science 281:501-503, July 24, 1998. Evolution explains the 330,000 odd beetlespecies. Exploitation of newly evolved flowering plants.
34. B Wuethrich, Speciation: Mexican pairs show geography's role. Science 285: 1190, Aug. 20, 1999. Discusses allopatric speciation. Debate with ecological speciation on which is most prevalent.
 
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Norman321

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One cannot escape one's ancestry...
There are better ways to explain the data then darwin's theory. He is not the only game in town. Although the best arguments against his theory actually comes from evolutionists. They just do not want to admit that the evidence they have does not support the current theory.
 
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Split Rock

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There are better ways to explain the data then darwin's theory. He is not the only game in town. Although the best arguments against his theory actually comes from evolutionists. They just do not want to admit that the evidence they have does not support the current theory.

Well don't be shy... show us this "better way" to explain the data. Also, you do know that the theory of evolution has moved on since Darwin's time... right?
 
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CaliforniaSun

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There are better ways to explain the data then darwin's theory. He is not the only game in town. Although the best arguments against his theory actually comes from evolutionists. They just do not want to admit that the evidence they have does not support the current theory.
What theory can better explain 50,000 species of beetle?
 
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RickG

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That's crazy talk. I can accept a Cambrian marine rabbit, but any talk of it being a carnivore is insane. Carnivores didn't evolve until the Eocene.

Did you not follow the link I provided? It was a spoof site. :p
 
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