Creationism V Evolution.

[FaithIsAll]

Have you never wondered why all of the creationists probing questions about evolution come to nothing?
why none of the so called creationist revelations about evolution go anywhere?

I'll tell you why, they are not genuine criticisms of evolution they are all designed to fool creationists into believing there is something wrong with evolution, they are not meant to seriously challenge evolution, creationist leaders know very well that the ToE is so well established and so well documented and evidenced they could never even hope to dent it, that was never their intension, ever, they do it to keep creationists believing in creationism and paying them money, they know that creationism is a belief and evolution is a fact, they don't fight it they use it.

It was never about evolution being wrong it was always about fooling creationists.

We keep hearing about the next big thing that is going to destroy evolution but nothing ever comes from it, the world is going to be changed by these fantastic revelations, educators, scientists, geologists and archaeologists are all going to change their minds [just as long as they are not too closed minded to see the truth] but nothing ever happens. nada, zilch, zero.

Let me ask you, could it be you creationists who are being duped? could you be the ones being fooled?

We had the creationist movies that were going to obliterate evolution because they told everyone just what a load of rubbish evolution really was, where are they now? they have all disappeared without a trace, not even a ripple left in the sand.

ARGUMENTS AGAINST EVOLUTION ARE DESIGNED TO FOOL CREATIONISTS NOT CHALLENGE EVOLUTION.

 

[Norman321]

ToE is so well established and so well documented and evidenced they could never even hope to dent it

We hear a lot about evidence, but we never see any of it. If there is so much evidence and "TOE" is so well documented, then why can't you show us anything in the way of evidence to try and show us what your saying is true.

 

[FaithIsAll]

We hear a lot about evidence, but we never see any of it. If there is so much evidence and "TOE" is so well documented, then why can't you show us anything in the way of evidence to try and show us what your saying is true.

I can't because it's a secret.

 

[MostlyLurking]

ARGUMENTS AGAINST EVOLUTION ARE DESIGNED TO FOOL CREATIONISTS NOT CHALLENGE EVOLUTION.

Yes, check out "The Ham Hightail", coined by PZ Myers. It summarizes your thoughts quite well. Creationist ministry entrepreneurs [Answer in Genesis is a $24 million annual income operation] know that their arguments have no chance of drawing anything but laughter from scientists and even the sincere scientifically-literate inquirer. The pseudoscience is solely directed for the scientifically illiterate donors and the buyers of "creation science" books and videos. I'm very familiar with this strategy because I grew up in a creationist family and church and I got involved as a volunteer. I lost my stomach for it after a while and the dishonest quote-mining and the denying of evidence (and distortion of the real science) became overwhelming. The Golden Crocoduck Award is not just a joke about the 9th Commandment. It exposes an ongoing travesty of bad ethics. I encourage everyone to watch the videos on Potholer54's Youtube channel. The Golden Crocoduck Nominees are featured using video/audio of their own claims. Prepare to be amazed---because there are people who find the "creation science" video excerpts somehow credible.

 

[MostlyLurking]

We hear a lot about evidence, but we never see any of it.

Covering your eyes and ears explains it. Think about it. That's why you "never see any of it." (Haven't you ever wondered why millions see the evidence and study it all the time and you somehow fail to see it? Nobody is fooled by your complaints.)

If there is so much evidence and "TOE" is so well documented, then why can't you show us anything in the way of evidence to try and show us what your saying is true.

Is that the anti-evolution Christians equivalent to the infamous "When did you quit beating your wife?" tactic? I assure you, nobody finds it convincing. It only makes your arguments sound lame.

If you truly want evidence, there's plenty of evidence online, at your local library, and at major museums. If you are ignorant of the evidence, it is a deliberate choice on your part.

Meanwhile, you conveniently dodged the question which launched this thread and tried to replace it with your own----and by doing so, you illustrated exactly what the OP was saying.

But here is the question again, just in case you decide NOT to dodge it this time:

"Have you never wondered why all of the creationists' probing questions about evolution come to nothing?" "Why [do] none of the so called creationist revelations about evolution go anywhere?

Unlike your question, this one is based upon truth. Here's an example: remember the book title which became an anti-evolution mantra? Here it is: "Evolution is a Theory in Crisis." and yet the theory is stronger than ever as more and more evidence accumulates. Indeed, not only have the numbers of transitional fossil forms grown exponentially, genomic evidence has rapidly piled higher through a new kind of Theory of Evolution explosion of knowledge.

 

[Norman321]

It was never about evolution being wrong it was always about fooling creationists.

We are told that: (1 Cor 3:19-21 NKJV) "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God." All of man's wisdom is foolishness with God.

 

[Norman321]

That's why you "never see any of it."

Because you are showing me NO EVIDENCE. Just a lot of empty talk. Do you have evidence to show or not? You expect me to believe in slow gradual change. So there should be many transitions, thousands of transition fossils and yet you can not even show me one. Like they use to do with the old horse evolution with the skeltons. Only that turned out to be fake just like all the other evo evidence that tries to show evolution in terms of decent with modification. All you can show is an ecology fine tuning itself.

If your convinced fine, wonderful, go at it. But do not expect me to be convinced. It just ain't gonna happen. So you would be better to invest your energy in something where you can accomplish your objective. It would be a waste of my time to try to convert you to YEC. So why would you waste your time to try to convert me to your version of TE? Why is everyone running around trying to convert others to their way of thinking?

But they say: Evolution works. We can make predictions. The geocentric model worked for what they needed it to do. Science even convinced the church to go along with them. Every morning the sun would rise. Every evening the sun would set, just like their model predicted.

Newton's theory of gravity worked. For a while. Even today people believe in his theory and they can use it to make predictions that come true. Yet Einstein come along with a theory that was a lot more accurate, make better predictions and could be used for a whole lot more then Newton's theory.

If Darwin's theory works for you and your comfortable with it fine. But do not expect me to go along with it. Because I am waiting for something better to come along that better explains the evidence.

 

[DaneaFL]

Because you are showing me NO EVIDENCE. Just a lot of empty talk. Do you have evidence to show or not? You expect me to believe in slow gradual change. So there should be many transitions, thousands of transition fossils and yet you can not even show me one. Like they use to do with the old horse evolution with the skeltons. Only that turned out to be fake just like all the other evo evidence that tries to show evolution in terms of decent with modification. All you can show is an ecology fine tuning itself.

If your convinced fine, wonderful, go at it. But do not expect me to be convinced. It just ain't gonna happen. So you would be better to invest your energy in something where you can accomplish your objective. It would be a waste of my time to try to convert you to YEC. So why would you waste your time to try to convert me to your version of TE? Why is everyone running around trying to convert others to their way of thinking?

But they say: Evolution works. We can make predictions. The geocentric model worked for what they needed it to do. Science even convinced the church to go along with them. Every morning the sun would rise. Every evening the sun would set, just like their model predicted.

Newton's theory of gravity worked. For a while. Even today people believe in his theory and they can use it to make predictions that come true. Yet Einstein come along with a theory that was a lot more accurate, make better predictions and could be used for a whole lot more then Newton's theory.

If Darwin's theory works for you and your comfortable with it fine. But do not expect me to go along with it. Because I am waiting for something better to come along that better explains the evidence.

What is a transitional fossil?

How would we know when we found one?

Everything is just a modified version of whatever it's parents were. So I'm not sure if we have the same definition of 'transitional'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIijwkaqKzY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3SAGDZXLxI&feature=related

 

[FaithIsAll]

Because you are showing me NO EVIDENCE. Just a lot of empty talk. Do you have evidence to show or not? You expect me to believe in slow gradual change. So there should be many transitions, thousands of transition fossils and yet you can not even show me one. Like they use to do with the old horse evolution with the skeltons. Only that turned out to be fake just like all the other evo evidence that tries to show evolution in terms of decent with modification. All you can show is an ecology fine tuning itself.

As I told you, I am unable to tell you because it's secret, if you want to find out about evolution [which you don't] you will need to do it yourself, I could get shot for telling you.

If your convinced fine, wonderful, go at it. But do not expect me to be convinced. It just ain't gonna happen. So you would be better to invest your energy in something where you can accomplish your objective.

If it was just you then you can be assured that we would all give up and go, but it's not just you is it?

It would be a waste of my time to try to convert you to YEC.

That's because 99.9999999999% of creationists are made creationists from birth, only 00.000000001% are converts.

So why would you waste your time to try to convert me to your version of TE? Why is everyone running around trying to convert others to their way of thinking?

If you see a bird with a broken wing do you leave it to suffer of do you try and help it?
you are the bird with the broken wing, you just don't know it yet, but hopefully one day you will.

 

[FaithIsAll]

What is a transitional fossil?

How would we know when we found one?

If you showed him a thousand transitional fossils he would change the subject and ask for something else.

The last thing creationists want is evidence, they are like children who continually ask 'Why'.

They never answer questions all they ever do is ask questions which are intended to confuse, why?
they don't want answers because they think they already have all of the answers, that's how mixed up they are.

They were not raised having questions answered, they were told what to believe and not to ask questions,
creationism smashed all of their ideas and robbed them of their creativity right from the very beginning.

Answer a thousand questions for them then fail to answer one and they will tell you it's all wrong.

 

[Split Rock]

Have you never wondered why all of the creationists probing questions about evolution come to nothing?
why none of the so called creationist revelations about evolution go anywhere?

I'll tell you why, they are not genuine criticisms of evolution they are all designed to fool creationists into believing there is something wrong with evolution, they are not meant to seriously challenge evolution, creationist leaders know very well that the ToE is so well established and so well documented and evidenced they could never even hope to dent it, that was never their intension, ever, they do it to keep creationists believing in creationism and paying them money, they know that creationism is a belief and evolution is a fact, they don't fight it they use it.

It was never about evolution being wrong it was always about fooling creationists.

We keep hearing about the next big thing that is going to destroy evolution but nothing ever comes from it, the world is going to be changed by these fantastic revelations, educators, scientists, geologists and archaeologists are all going to change their minds [just as long as they are not too closed minded to see the truth] but nothing ever happens. nada, zilch, zero.

Let me ask you, could it be you creationists who are being duped? could you be the ones being fooled?

We had the creationist movies that were going to obliterate evolution because they told everyone just what a load of rubbish evolution really was, where are they now? they have all disappeared without a trace, not even a ripple left in the sand.

ARGUMENTS AGAINST EVOLUTION ARE DESIGNED TO FOOL CREATIONISTS NOT CHALLENGE EVOLUTION.

I have often posted similar conclusions here myself. Creationists don't relly care bout the scientifc evidence, they only care about the bible and thier dogma concerning the bible. The "evidence against evolution" is just a list of talking points to use to "win" the debate.

However, I wouldn't say the arguments against evolution are designed to fool creationists (though they are certainly not to challenge evolution in the scientific community). Creationists already "know" the truth, and that truth is based on evangelical/fundamentalist dogma, not scientific evidence. They are instead designed to reinforce creationist dogma and give creationists arguments to "win" the debate with.

 

[Split Rock]

We hear a lot about evidence, but we never see any of it. If there is so much evidence and "TOE" is so well documented, then why can't you show us anything in the way of evidence to try and show us what your saying is true.

I doubt you really want to see this evidence, since a simple Google search will provide it for you. However, just in case I am wrong, a good site to start your search is this website. It is designed for laymen and easy to use: Understanding Evolution

If you really want the nitty gritty data, you can follow the 19,1506 hits I got at PubMed by searching the scientifc literature for "biological evolution." biological evolutioin - PubMed - NCBI
After your done studying all these, you can come back and tell me if there is "no evidence" or not.

We are told that: (1 Cor 3:19-21 NKJV) "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God." All of man's wisdom is foolishness with God.

I have asked this question before, but never gotten a response... Does the foolishness of "man's wisdom" extend to his/her fallible interpretation of scripture?

 

[Split Rock]

Because you are showing me NO EVIDENCE. Just a lot of empty talk. Do you have evidence to show or not? You expect me to believe in slow gradual change. So there should be many transitions, thousands of transition fossils and yet you can not even show me one. Like they use to do with the old horse evolution with the skeltons. Only that turned out to be fake just like all the other evo evidence that tries to show evolution in terms of decent with modification. All you can show is an ecology fine tuning itself.

What fossils of horse transitionals were found to be fake? I think you are just making stuff up.

If your convinced fine, wonderful, go at it. But do not expect me to be convinced. It just ain't gonna happen. So you would be better to invest your energy in something where you can accomplish your objective. It would be a waste of my time to try to convert you to YEC. So why would you waste your time to try to convert me to your version of TE? Why is everyone running around trying to convert others to their way of thinking?

So, you want to see evidence and you want to see transitionals, but you insist that you will never be convinced. Why are you asking for evidence then? To waste our time?

But they say: Evolution works. We can make predictions. The geocentric model worked for what they needed it to do. Science even convinced the church to go along with them. Every morning the sun would rise. Every evening the sun would set, just like their model predicted.

Newton's theory of gravity worked. For a while. Even today people believe in his theory and they can use it to make predictions that come true. Yet Einstein come along with a theory that was a lot more accurate, make better predictions and could be used for a whole lot more then Newton's theory.

If Darwin's theory works for you and your comfortable with it fine. But do not expect me to go along with it. Because I am waiting for something better to come along that better explains the evidence.

So, what will better explain the evidence? Does creationism better explain the evidence?

 

[AV1611VET]

However, I wouldn't say the arguments against evolution are designed to fool creationists (though they are certainly not to challenge evolution in the scientific community). Creationists already "know" the truth, and that truth is based on evangelical/fundamentalist dogma, not scientific evidence. They are instead designed to reinforce creationist dogma and give creationists arguments to "win" the debate with.

I agree with you.

And in my opinion, creationists get what they deserve when they get their evidence Veg-o-maticked.

The Theory of Evolution is going to be alive and well, right through the Tribulation.

 

[RickG]

Because you are showing me NO EVIDENCE. Just a lot of empty talk. Do you have evidence to show or not? You expect me to believe in slow gradual change. So there should be many transitions, thousands of transition fossils and yet you can not even show me one. Like they use to do with the old horse evolution with the skeltons. Only that turned out to be fake just like all the other evo evidence that tries to show evolution in terms of decent with modification. All you can show is an ecology fine tuning itself.

Transition fossils are not necessary. Please explain why there are no horse, rabbit, or human fossils in Devonian strata. Explain why there are no dinosaur fossils in Oligocene strata. Why does the fossil record mimic what evolution would show?

 

[Norman321]

What fossils of horse transitionals were found to be fake? I think you are just making stuff up.

Do you really know that little about what we are talking about. Because it would be so very easy for you to do a google search to look at the old and the new theory of horse evolution.
Here is the OLD THEORY, this one has now been falsifed:

 

[Norman321]

Transition fossils are not necessary. Please explain why there are no horse, rabbit, or human fossils in Devonian strata. Explain why there are no dinosaur fossils in Oligocene strata. Why does the fossil record mimic what evolution would show?

That is your opinion not mine. God knows the end from the beginning. Mistakes and errors have nothing to do with it. Is that so difficult for you to understand? Clearly the universe is going from simple to complex. But that has nothing to do with errors, mistakes and mutations. It has to do with design and planning. Everyone talks about Biology but no one has studied design. You can feel free to use your theory to build whatever you want to build. But so far no one has got it to work to make anything.

It is not going to do you any good to address what we all accept and know to be true if your going to avoid what we all know is not true. It is just a shell game. We all know the shell is empty, you can not trick us that easy into thinking you have anything under your evolution shell. Your DNA shell has a bean under it, but that is not evolution. DNA is as Collins says, the Language of God and God don't studder. He don't make mistakes, He has no errors, His pencil don't even have and eraser. Life does not come from mutations.

 

[Split Rock]

Do you really know that little about what we are talking about. Because it would be so very easy for you to do a google search to look at the old and the new theory of horse evolution.
Here is the OLD THEORY, this one has now been falsifed:

One more time: What fossil horse transitionals were found to be FAKE, as you claimed?

 

[Guy1]

One more time: What fossil horse transitionals were found to be FAKE, as you claimed?

I think we both know the answer to that one. The ones at the start are clearly only horse-like, while the others are fully fledged horses. They still haven't shown a half-horse/half-dolphin anywhere. And also; drawings don't prove anything. I'm surprised you're still peddling this evo nonsense and expecting us to buy it. Stop showing us pictures and give us an actual transitional fossil!

 

[Split Rock]

I think we both know the answer to that one. The ones at the start are clearly only horse-like, while the others are fully fledged horses. They still haven't shown a half-horse/half-dolphin anywhere. And also; drawings don't prove anything. I'm surprised you're still peddling this evo nonsense and expecting us to buy it. Stop showing us pictures and give us an actual transitional fossil!

I want Norman to admit he just made up his assertion that horse transitionals were fakes.