Let's Talk About Hell (6)

[dollarsbill]

This clearly doesn't say that God burns people alive forever. Why is THAT so hard to believe?
I stated that the Bible says He burns humans alive. Refute that.

And you still haven't refuted John 8:21

Why do you keep referring to verses that have nothing to do with the subject? Nothing to refute.

 

[Timothew]

This clearly doesn't say that God burns people alive forever. Why is THAT so hard to believe?
I stated that the Bible says He burns humans alive. Refute that.

Why do you keep referring to verses that have nothing to do with the subject? Nothing to refute.

What? Now you agree that the penalty for sin is death and not eternal torture? I was beginning to think that you would never accept the truth.

Here is the 7th proof of conditional immortality, that those who are without Christ will die in their sins and not be eternally tortured for their sins.

John 8:21

Then He said again to them, “I go away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin; where I am going, you cannot come."
​

Jesus said they would die in their sin, not be burned alive forever.

If they were to be tortured alive for their sins after they died, why didn't Jesus tell them about it? Why did he say they would die in their sins if it's true that they will never die in their sins but be kept alive in hell forever burning?

 

[dollarsbill]

What? Now you agree that the penalty for sin is death and not eternal torture? I was beginning to think that you would never accept the truth.

I Have several times. First - Spiritual death. Second - physical death. LAST - THE SECOND DEATH.

NONE meaning 'cease to exist'.

 

[he-man]

The cause of the pain will be the fire mentioned several times in the NT. Why is it so hard to believe that God will burn humans forever when the Bible CLEARLY shows that He burns humans alive?

Matthew 13:40-42 (NASB)
40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. 41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

2Peter 3:7 "but now, by the same Word [that is Jesus], heaven and earth are saved and kept for fire on the day of judgment, and the destruction of impious men.
http://aggreen.net/beliefs/heaven_hell.html

 

[dollarsbill]

2Peter 3:7 "but now, by the same Word [that is Jesus], heaven and earth are saved and kept for fire on the day of judgment, and the destruction of impious men.
http://aggreen.net/beliefs/heaven_hell.html

Which English translation are you quoting?

 

[he-man]

Which English translation are you quoting?

Take your pick:

2Peter 3:7 "but now, by the same Word [that is Jesus], heaven and earth are saved and kept for fire on the day of judgment, and the destruction of impious men.
http://aggreen.net/beliefs/heaven_hell.html

2 Peter 3:7 YLT
Young's Literal Translation
and the present heavens and the earth, by the same word are treasured, for fire being kept to a day of judgment and destruction of the impious men.

2 Peter 3:7 DBY
The Darby Translation
But the present heavens and the earth by his word are laid up in store, kept for fire unto a day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:7 BBE
Bible in Basic English
But the present heaven and the present earth have been kept for destruction by fire, which is waiting for them on the day of the judging and destruction of evil men.

2 Peter 3:7 ESV
English Standard Version
But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

2 Peter 3:7 GW
GOD'S WORD Translation
By God's word, the present heaven and earth are designated to be burned. They are being kept until the day ungodly people will be judged and destroyed

 

[BobRyan]

I Have several times. First - Spiritual death. Second - physical death. LAST - THE SECOND DEATH.

NONE meaning 'cease to exist'.

Matt 10:28 "Fear him who is ABLE to destroy BOTH body AND SOUL in fiery hell"---

This is the "be no more" end of the wicked for God has also "Destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah reducing them to ashes".

He is ABLE to save unto the uttermost those that diligently seek him and He is ABLE to destroy both body and soul in fiery hell. According to Christ.

in Christ,

bob

 

[createdtoworship]

What? Now you agree that the penalty for sin is death and not eternal torture? I was beginning to think that you would never accept the truth.

death doesn't mean annihilate or why would we need to destroy BOTH the body and the soul....if death meant the defeat of both simultaneously?

 

[Timothew]

I Have several times. First - Spiritual death. Second - physical death. LAST - THE SECOND DEATH.

NONE meaning 'cease to exist'.

What do you mean? Of course the first death means to cease to exist until the resurrection on the last day, and the second death means to cease to exist without another resurrection to end it. Another way the bible expresses this is "eternal destruction."

 

[Timothew]

death doesn't mean annihilate or why would we need to destroy BOTH the body and the soul....if death meant the defeat of both simultaneously?

Matt 10:28 "Fear him who is ABLE to destroy BOTH body AND SOUL in fiery hell"---
If destroying both body and soul in fiery gehenna doesn't mean annihilation, what does it mean? Non-destruction of both body and soul?
Does it say fear him who is able to destroy both body and soul by not destroying body and soul?

 

[Timothew]

Why do you keep referring to verses that have nothing to do with the subject? Nothing to refute.

So the seventh proof, John 8:21 goes unrefuted. Okay. it is established that the result of sin is that people die in their sins. The result is not that people will be tortured by God in hell forever for their their sins.

Here is the eighth proof against tormentalism.
Romans 5:12

Sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned.
​

Paul is saying what happens because of sin and it is death, not eternal torture in hell. If the penalty for sin is eternal torture, then Paul's statement is false. He should have said "Sin came into the world through one man, and eternal torment through sin, and so eternal torment spread to all men because all sinned." But, of course Paul did NOT say that.
This is just what Jesus also said in John 8:21

 

[createdtoworship]

Matt 10:28 "Fear him who is ABLE to destroy BOTH body AND SOUL in fiery hell"---
If destroying both body and soul in fiery gehenna doesn't mean annihilation, what does it mean? Non-destruction of both body and soul?
Does it say fear him who is able to destroy both body and soul by not destroying body and soul?

I didn't think you would have an answer to that one. Oh and BTW destruction means death not annihilate. Look it up.

 

[Timothew]

I didn't think you would have an answer to that one. Oh and BTW destruction means death not annihilate. Look it up.

Huh?

I did answer it. Read my response again until you begin to understand it.

 

[Timothew]

Oh and BTW destruction means death not annihilate. Look it up.

Annihilate:
1. a. To destroy completely: The naval force was annihilated during the attack.
b. To reduce to nonexistence.
c. To defeat decisively; vanquish.

2. To nullify or render void; abolish.

Oops! Destroy is part of the definition for annihilate. Once again you are wrong.

 

[createdtoworship]

Annihilate:
1. a. To destroy completely: The naval force was annihilated during the attack.
b. To reduce to nonexistence.
c. To defeat decisively; vanquish.

2. To nullify or render void; abolish.

Oops! Destroy is part of the definition for annihilate. Once again you are wrong.

yeah, it means to completely destroy. But if there are levels of destruction and you just pointed out that there is.....what level of destruction are we to input into the scriptures?


this destruction simply means demolition:


destruction [dɪˈstrʌkʃən]
n
1. the act of destroying or state of being destroyed; demolition
2. a cause of ruin or means of destroying
[from Latin dēstructiō a pulling down; see destroy]

 

[Timothew]

yeah, it means to completely destroy. But if there are levels of destruction and you just pointed out that there is.....what level of destruction are we to input into the scriptures?


this destruction simply means demolition:


destruction [dɪˈstrʌkʃən]
n
1. the act of destroying or state of being destroyed; demolition
2. a cause of ruin or means of destroying
[from Latin dēstructiō a pulling down; see destroy]

And if a person is demolished? you don't think they are destroyed, killed, annihilated and demolished?

 

[he-man]

yeah, it means to completely destroy. But if there are levels of destruction and you just pointed out that there is.....what level of destruction are we to input into the scriptures?
this destruction simply means demolition:destruction [dɪˈstrʌkʃən]
n 1. the act of destroying or state of being destroyed; demolition
2. a cause of ruin or means of destroying [from Latin dēstructiō a pulling down; see destroy]

κατάρριψη, κατεδάφιση demolition destruction, ruin ▶ noun

the demolition of the building: DESTRUCTION, levelling, bulldozing, clearance; obliteration.

the demolition of his theory: DESTRUCTION, refutation.
© Oxford University Press 1995, 2002

καταστροφή destruction

the destruction of cattle: SLAUGHTER, killing, putting down, extermination, termination.

the destruction of the enemies' forces: ANNIHILATION, obliteration, elimination, eradication, liquidation; killing, slaughter, massacre, extermination.
© Oxford University Press 1995, 2002

καταστροφή destruction ■ noun the action or process of destroying something. ▶a cause of someone's ruin.

ME: from L. destructio(n-), from destruere (see destroy).
© Oxford University Press, 2004

 

[createdtoworship]

καταστροφή destruction ■ noun the action or process of destroying something. ▶a cause of someone's ruin.

ME: from L. destructio(n-), from destruere (see destroy).
© Oxford University Press, 2004
[

to cause to ruin hmmm doensn't sound like annihilation to me sorry.

 

[he-man]

to cause to ruin hmmm doensn't sound like annihilation to me sorry.

Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the depository; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall pay a penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Psa 21:8 Thine hand shall find out all thine enemies: thy right hand shall find out those that hate thee.
Psa 21:9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.

κατάρριψη, κατεδάφιση demolition destruction, ruin ▶ noun

the demolition of the building: DESTRUCTION, levelling, bulldozing, clearance; obliteration.

the demolition of his theory: DESTRUCTION, refutation.
© Oxford University Press 1995, 2002

καταστροφή destruction

the destruction of cattle: SLAUGHTER, killing, putting down, extermination, termination.

the destruction of the enemies' forces: ANNIHILATION, obliteration, elimination, eradication, liquidation; killing, slaughter, massacre, extermination.
© Oxford University Press 1995, 2002

καταστροφή destruction ■ noun the action or process of destroying something. ▶a cause of someone's ruin.

ME: from L. destructio(n-), from destruere (see destroy).
© Oxford University Press, 2004

 

[createdtoworship]

καταστροφή destruction ■ noun the action or process of destroying something. ▶a cause of someone's ruin.

ME: from L. destructio(n-), from destruere (see destroy).
© Oxford University Press, 2004

the above quotation from you doens't sound like annihilation it sounds like ruining somoenes life. Is this what you wanted to say?