Let's Talk About Hell (6)

[he-man]

the above quotation from you doens't sound like annihilation it sounds like ruining somoenes life. Is this what you wanted to say?

What I did was define ruin , demolition, obliteration, killing, putting down, extermination, termination.
to show you the actual meanings.
κατάρριψη, κατεδάφιση demolition destruction, ruin ▶ noun

the demolition of the building: DESTRUCTION, levelling, bulldozing, clearance; obliteration.

the demolition of his theory: DESTRUCTION, refutation.
© Oxford University Press 1995, 2002

καταστροφή destruction

the destruction of cattle: SLAUGHTER, killing, putting down, extermination, termination.

the destruction of the enemies' forces: ANNIHILATION, obliteration, elimination, eradication, liquidation; killing, slaughter, massacre, extermination.
© Oxford University Press 1995, 2002

καταστροφή destruction ■ noun the action or process of destroying something. ▶a cause of someone's ruin.

ME: from L. destructio(n-), from destruere (see destroy).
© Oxford University Press, 2004

 

[createdtoworship]

What I did was define ruin , demolition, obliteration, killing, putting down, extermination, termination.
to show you the actual meanings.
κατάρριψη, κατεδάφιση demolition destruction, ruin ▶ noun

the demolition of the building: DESTRUCTION, levelling, bulldozing, clearance; obliteration.

the demolition of his theory: DESTRUCTION, refutation.
© Oxford University Press 1995, 2002

καταστροφή destruction

the destruction of cattle: SLAUGHTER, killing, putting down, extermination, termination.

the destruction of the enemies' forces: ANNIHILATION, obliteration, elimination, eradication, liquidation; killing, slaughter, massacre, extermination.
© Oxford University Press 1995, 2002

καταστροφή destruction ■ noun the action or process of destroying something. ▶a cause of someone's ruin.

ME: from L. destructio(n-), from destruere (see destroy).
© Oxford University Press, 2004

so destruction CAN mean annihilation according to your english dictionary. But it also gives another three definitions firstly. So which is it? Are you merely choosing one of FOUR definitions to suit your emotional appeal?

 

[Timothew]

so destruction CAN mean annihilation according to your english dictionary. But it also gives another three definitions firstly. So which is it? Are you merely choosing one of FOUR definitions to suit your emotional appeal?

What were the other defintions besides annihilation?
obliteration, extermination, termination.

These terms aren't helping your case that people are undestroyed, unannihilated, unobliterated, unexterminated, and unterminated in hell in order to be tortured there.

 

[he-man]

so destruction CAN mean annihilation according to your english dictionary. But it also gives another three definitions firstly. So which is it? Are you merely choosing one of FOUR definitions to suit your emotional appeal?

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[createdtoworship]

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go for it, I question their authority on greek translation of scriptures. There are classical usages and biblical usages and the two are not always the same.

 

[Timothew]

go for it, I question their authority on greek translation of scriptures. There are classical usages and biblical usages and the two are not always the same.

Are you able to read the greek text and understand it? (or Hebrew?)

 

[createdtoworship]

Are you able to read the greek text and understand it? (or Hebrew?)

I understand enough to get by.

 

[dollarsbill]

Are you able to read the greek text and understand it? (or Hebrew?)

A better question would be, are you? Since you cannot refute Luke 16 or Rev. Our English Bibles prove YOU wrong!

 

[he-man]

I understand enough to get by.

A better question would be, then why do you not ubderstand the Greek meaning of eternal annihilation?

 

[dollarsbill]

A better question would be, then why do you not ubderstand the Greek meaning of eternal annihilation?

Please refute Luke 16. You cannot!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Timothew]

A better question would be, are you? Since you cannot refute Luke 16 or Rev. Our English Bibles prove YOU wrong!

Can you translate this?
καὶ χωρὶς παραβολῆς οὐδὲν ἐλάλει

 

[createdtoworship]

A better question would be, then why do you not ubderstand the Greek meaning of eternal annihilation?

Wine and wineskins, in Mark 2:22: "And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, he pours new wine into new wineskins." Yes, you guessed it: the word translated "ruined" above is apolumi, in the form apolountai to be precise. Not a single atom of either the wine or the wineskin would cease to exist in the example Jesus gives here.
Both would be rendered unfit for their intended purposes, however; the wineskin having a big rip in it is no longer able to hold liquids, and the wine being dumped on the dirt is no longer drinkable.
But the one is still a wineskin, and the other is still wine. Neither ceased to exist. Under normal conditions, matter is never created nor destroyed, only changed. A ripped wineskin will not cause itself or its contents to be converted to energy.
There is not a single instance in the Bible of this word ever meaning "annihilate". There are plenty of examples of it referring to living people becoming dead people. Also a lot of examples of various shades of meaning of "lost". If "annihilate" is even in the semantic range of apolumi, which is debatable, it is not ever used with that meaning in the Bible.
Here are all of the verses using the word, with Thayer's lexicon entry:
Blue Letter Bible - Home Page


from:

Well,

 

[Timothew]

You don't like the word "annihilate"? What word do you like that means dead and not alive in some way?

 

[he-man]

Wine and wineskins, in Mark 2:22: "And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, he pours new wine into new wineskins." Yes, you guessed it: the word translated "ruined" above is apolumi, in the form apolountai to be precise. Not a single atom of either the wine or the wineskin would cease to exist in the example Jesus gives here.

Mr 2:22 And no one puts new' wine into old leather wine bags: if not the wine runs out of the leather wine bags, and the wine and the leather wine bags will be destroyed: but put new wine into new leather wine bags.

G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

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The Bible was first translated into Latin, then into German and French and Anglo-Saxon. Neither had the earliest manuscripts, only a few from the 9th to 10th Century, which is where the spurious 1Jn 5:7 came from. Luther did the first printing in German and then the first English translation came from those same errant manuscripts; i.e. KJV, etc.

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[createdtoworship]

Mr 2:22 And no one puts new' wine into old leather wine bags: if not the wine runs out of the leather wine bags, and the wine and the leather wine bags will be destroyed: but put new wine into new leather wine bags.

G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

Perhaps you should Register for the Virtual memoQ day? In all languages!
The Bible was first translated into Latin, then into German and French and Anglo-Saxon. Neither had the earliest manuscripts, only a few from the 9th to 10th Century, which is where the spurious 1Jn 5:7 came from. Luther did the first printing in German and then the first English translation came from those same errant manuscripts; i.e. KJV, etc.

What makes a good translator?" Attend this panel discussion to hear what translation industry players think are the requirements for a translator to get work.

Does it matter where you graduated and how many words you have translated? What makes a good translator? Flexibility, experience with CAT tools, speed, knowledge, enthusiasm, passion for translation, precision - any or all of these?

Register for the Virtual memoQ day, submit your questions to the panel and get the most out of this discussion.

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just an example of how destroy doesn't mean utterly annihilate where no atoms exist anymore.

 

[createdtoworship]

You don't like the word "annihilate"? What word do you like that means dead and not alive in some way?

but thats not what happens. There is no word in the Bible describing "dead not alive in some way" because thats a false representation of the biblical truth of death and eternal death. you believe not only are all the atoms dead in a wicked person but they are gone! When they die. This is not correct. The atoms are reassembled into a resurrected body that will endure either eternal life or death.

 

[he-man]

just an example of how destroy doesn't mean utterly annihilate where no atoms exist anymore.

Because I have called and you refused, I will mock when your terror comes, do you think the Bible was translated in Greek only?

Mr 2:22 And no one puts new' wine into old leather wine bags: if not the wine runs out of the leather wine bags, and the wine and the leather wine bags will be destroyed: but put new wine into new leather wine bags.

G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

Proverbs 1:20 Wisdom calls aloud outside; She raises her voice in the open squares.
(21) She cries out in the chief concourses, At the openings of the gates in the city She speaks her words:
(22) " How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity? For scorners delight in their scorning, And fools hate knowledge.
(23) Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you.
(24) Because I have called and you refused, I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,
(25) Because you disdained all my counsel, And would have none of my rebuke,
(26) I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your terror comes,

 

[createdtoworship]

Because I have called and you refused, I will mock when your terror comes, do you think the Bible was translated in Greek only?

actually the Bible is written in

greek (new testament)
Hebrew (old testament)
and parts aramaic (old testament)

but since the majority of Jesus's words about hell are in Greek this is our primary source for interpretation.

 

[he-man]

actually the Bible is written in

greek (new testament)
Hebrew (old testament)
and parts aramaic (old testament)

but since the majority of Jesus's words about hell are in Greek this is our primary source for interpretation.

Because I have called and you refused, I will mock when your terror comes, do you think the Bible was translated in Greek only?

Here is the Greek: do you refuse the ἀπόλλυμι
Mr 2:22 And no one puts new' wine into old leather wine bags: if not the wine runs out of the leather wine bags, and the wine and the leather wine bags will be destroyed: but put new wine into new leather wine bags.

G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

Proverbs 1:20 Wisdom calls aloud outside; She raises her voice in the open squares.
(21) She cries out in the chief concourses, At the openings of the gates in the city She speaks her words:
(22) " How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity? For scorners delight in their scorning, And fools hate knowledge.
(23) Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you.
(24) Because I have called and you refused, I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,
(25) Because you disdained all my counsel, And would have none of my rebuke,
(26) I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your terror comes,

 

[Timothew]

but thats not what happens. There is no word in the Bible describing "dead not alive in some way" because thats a false representation of the biblical truth of death and eternal death. you believe not only are all the atoms dead in a wicked person but they are gone! When they die. This is not correct. The atoms are reassembled into a resurrected body that will endure either eternal life or death.

So you believe that there is no word in english that means dead and not somehow alive.