Eternal Fire SAVES not TORTURES

[he-man]

I am sure that there are implications for the name of lazerus "He whom God Helps" but in that day an age everyone's name meant something. Peters name was petros, this doesn't mean that peters ministry was a parable of pebbles. You see my point.

No, do you have any authorities or documentation to back up your theory?
The Syriac version calls him "Loozar", as if it signified one that was helpless,that had no help, but wanted it, and so a fit name for a beggar; and well suits with Christ, who looked, and there was none to help, Isa_63:5 [GILL]
Isa 63:5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.

of the parable, Commentary - The Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man

Lazarus, לעזר is a contraction of the word אלעזרEliezar, which signifies the help or assistance of God [CLARKE]

this parable [VWS]

7. in the parable [e-Sword-KEYWORD]

 

[createdtoworship]

No, do you have any authorities or documentation to back up your theory?
The Syriac version calls him "Loozar", as if it signified one that was helpless,that had no help, but wanted it, and so a fit name for a beggar; and well suits with Christ, who looked, and there was none to help, Isa_63:5 [GILL]
Isa 63:5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.

of the parable, Commentary - The Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man

Lazarus, לעזר is a contraction of the word אלעזרEliezar, which signifies the help or assistance of God [CLARKE]

this parable [VWS]

7. in the parable [e-Sword-KEYWORD]

peters name was petros, that doesn't mean that his ministry was one big parable of pebbles. You really want me to back that up, as if you actually believe peters ministry was a pebble filled parable? Funny.

 

[Timothew]

but it doesn't say "when Jesus was telling stories," It says "But without a parable he spoke not to them." I suppose this to mean that those who were not the disciples had parables spoken to them with no interpretation. The disciples heard the same parables but later received an interpretation to the parable. This has no interpretation and is therefore not a parable. (Note: some parables spoken not in the ears of the disciples did not have an interpretation)

Nice try, but ultimately unsuccessful. Not all of the parable have attached interpretations. You seem to be adding a lot of arbitrary rules to the definition of parable, can't use names, must have an interpretation.
Here's a good definition of parable: A simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson.
The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Guy fits this definition as well as any other parable.

A fox saw a bunch of grapes high on a vine. He jumped up to try to get them but they were too high to reach. The fox sniffed and said "I hate this parable."
The interpretation is: It's a parable when it serves your purpose, but when it doesn't, it isn't.

 

[dollarsbill]

A DETAILED account of the afterlife of the wicked, dead and still alive:

Luke 16:22-26 (NASB)
22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 ~'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.Luke 16:27-28 (NASB)
27 "And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house— 28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

 

[Timothew]

A DETAILED account of the afterlife of the wicked, dead and still alive:

Luke 16:22-26 (NASB)

No, it's a parable, not a detailed account of the afterlife. By definition the dead are not still alive. If they were still alive, they would not be dead.

 

[dollarsbill]

No, it's a parable, not a detailed account of the afterlife. By definition the dead are not still alive. If they were still alive, they would not be dead.

The dead are indeed alive as Luke 16 says. The rich man died and was alive in torment. Jesus gave us a HIGHLY detailed account. The rich man was alive in the fire. Which is consistent with the other NT accounts I have cited.

 

[Timothew]

I just read Luke 24:36-43 as part of my daily bible study. Luke stresses that Jesus ate bread and fish after his resurrection. The resurrection is central to Christianity. He really rose to life again and we will too, those who are with Him. It isn't some gaseous spirit life in Hades being somehow tortured in flames or comforted by Abraham's ghostly embrace. We are to be resurrected to real life in the real new world that God will create.

 

[dollarsbill]

I just read Luke 24:36-43 as part of my daily bible study. Luke stresses that Jesus ate bread and fish after his resurrection. The resurrection is central to Christianity. He really rose to life again and we will too, those who are with Him. It isn't some gaseous spirit life in Hades being somehow tortured in flames or comforted by Abraham's ghostly embrace. We are to be resurrected to real life in the real new world that God will create.

And so will the wicked be resurrected.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Timothew]

And so will the wicked be resurrected.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

You misunderstand the word "damnation". The meaning has changed since 1611.

The resurrection of damnation - The word "damnation" means the sentence passed on one by a judge - judgment or condemnation.
Albert Barnes (someone who is on "your side.")
​

The judgment is to be sent to death, they are resurrected to be judged and condemned to death, not eternal living torture. John 5:29 doesn't support eternal tormentalism.

 

[dollarsbill]

You misunderstand the word "damnation". The meaning has changed since 1611.

The resurrection of damnation - The word "damnation" means the sentence passed on one by a judge - judgment or condemnation.
Albert Barnes (someone who is on "your side.")
​

The judgment is to be sent to death, they are resurrected to be judged and condemned to death, not eternal living torture. John 5:29 doesn't support eternal tormentalism.

It is YOU who have "misunderstood". Eternal, forever, = NEVER ending. As in "fire", "punishment", "life".

Matthew 25:41, 46 (NASB)
41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

"Eternal" all the exact same Greek word. NEVER ending.

 

[Timothew]

It is YOU who have "misunderstood". Eternal, forever, = NEVER ending. As in "fire", "punishment", "life".

Matthew 25:41, 46 (NASB)
41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

"Eternal" all the exact same Greek word. NEVER ending.

I agree. I hope that you will begin to understand that the punishment of death is never ending for those that do not receive eternal life.

 

[dollarsbill]

I agree. I hope that you will begin to understand that the punishment of death is never ending for those that do not receive eternal life.

The eternal fire is mentioned throughout the NT. It is 'eternal' because it will ALWAYS be burning the wicked. You cannot refute eternal torment.

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

NEVER ending!

 

[Timothew]

The eternal fire is mentioned throughout the NT. It is 'eternal' because it will ALWAYS be burning the wicked. You cannot refute eternal torment.

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

NEVER ending!

meh

Is that literal or apocalyptic imagery? Doesn't that beast have seven heads and ten horns? Now, when Paul writes directly that the wages of sin is death, is that literal or apocalyptic imagery?

 

[dollarsbill]

meh

Is that literal or apocalyptic imagery? Doesn't that beast have seven heads and ten horns? Now, when Paul writes directly that the wages of sin is death, is that literal or apocalyptic imagery?

Where do you find the term "apocalyptic" in the Bible?

 

[Timothew]

Where do you find the term "apocalyptic" in the Bible?

Revelation 1:1
Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ
Apokalypsis Iesou Christou, The Apocalypse of Jesus Christ...

Apocalypse is the very first word in the Apocalypse of John in greek. Other Apocalypses were written, it was a literary form of the times. The literary form is called (naturally) Apocalyptic Literature. If it is read as history or as literal prophecy, the message is lost.

 

[dollarsbill]

Revelation 1:1
Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ
Apokalypsis Iesou Christou, The Apocalypse of Jesus Christ...

Apocalypse is the very first word in the Apocalypse of John in greek. Other Apocalypses were written, it was a literary form of the times. The literary form is called (naturally) Apocalyptic Literature. If it is read as history or as literal prophecy, the message is lost.

So which part says it is not to be understood or taken literally?

 

[Timothew]

So which part says it is not to be understood or taken literally?

The part where it says that the beast has seven heads and ten horns.

 

[he-man]

The part where it says that the beast has seven heads and ten horns.

plus
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

 

[dollarsbill]

The part where it says that the beast has seven heads and ten horns.

So you just discard Revelation?

 

[he-man]

So you just discard Revelation?

Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.