Alan Dersowitz Speaks out on Zimmerman

[eastcoast_bsc]

Alan Dershowitz Harvard Constitutional Law Professor and famed Lawyer spoke out on MSNBC's Hardball. Dershowtiz has read the affidavit and talks in length on it, saying that the arrest affidavit is "irresponsible and unethical" . Dershowitz makes a great case, none of the defense evidence was evenin the affidavit, i.e. blood and wound on the back of his head, grass stains on his shirt.

Put aside the emotion and listen to Dershowitz. I feel he makes clear sense.

Alan Dershowitz: Zimmerman Arrest Affidavit "Irresponsible And Unethical" | RealClearPolitics

 

[Michie]

Is there text I can read? Long videos are not good here in dial-up land.

 

[Fantine]

I heard Dershowitz driving home from work. Then I heard a defense attorney who had tried several cases against the Florida prosecutor weigh in.

Then I remembered that Dershowitz had defended OJ Simpson, Patty Hearst, Jim Bakker and Mike Tyson, and that his specialty was turning reasonable doubts into "not guilty" (but not necessarily innocent) verdicts.

I then assumed that Dershowitz figures that Zimmerman is as "not guilty but not necessarily innocent" as OJ, and I understood his comments.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I heard Dershowitz driving home from work. Then I heard a defense attorney who had tried several cases against the Florida prosecutor weigh in.

Then I remembered that Dershowitz had defended OJ Simpson, Patty Hearst, Jim Bakker and Mike Tyson, and that his specialty was turning reasonable doubts into "not guilty" (but not necessarily innocent) verdicts.

I then assumed that Dershowitz figures that Zimmerman is as "not guilty but not necessarily innocent" as OJ, and I understood his comments.

Ad Hominem attack. Apparently you chose not to watch the video.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Is there text I can read? Long videos are not good here in dial-up land.

I will look Michie.

 

[Fantine]

Ad Hominem attack. Apparently you chose not to watch the video.

I heard Dershowitz speak while driving home from work. I have satellite radio and can get MSNBC.

He said that there was insufficient evidence for charges of second degree murder. He then made an ad femina attack on the prosecutor.

What I am saying is that when someone who could say, "If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit," thinks there isn't enough evidence, it's just the opinion of one man who has spent his career exploiting "reasonable doubt."

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Here is a synopsis, the video was more detailed. Even the Liberal Lawyer on MSNBC's hardball agreed with Dershowitz that the 2nd degree charge does not pass muster. They stated that the Defendent's evidence was not even in the Affidavit, i.e. bloody head wound and grass stains on the back of Zimmerman.

. Dershowitz called the affidavit justifying Zimmerman’s arrest “not only thin, it’s irresponsible.” He went on to criticize the decision to charge Zimmerman for second degree murder by special prosecutor Angela Corey as being politically motivated.

“You’ve seen the affidavit of probable cause. What do you make of it,” Smerconish asked. “It won’t suffice,” Dershowitz replied without hesitation.
“Most affidavits of probable cause are very thin. This is so thin that it won’t make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge,” Dershowitz said. “There’s simply nothing in there that would justify second degree murder.”
Dershowitz said that the elements that would constitute that crime are non-existent in the affidavit. “It’s not only thin, it’s irresponsible,” said Dershowitz.

Dershowitz went on to strongly criticize Corey’s decision to move forward with the case against Zimmerman. “I think what you have here is an elected public official who made a campaign speech last night for reelection when she gave her presentation and overcharged. This case will not – if the evidence is no stronger than what appears in the probable cause affidavit – this case will result in an acquittal.”

merconish identified the total lack of any mention of the supposed fight that occurred between Martin and Zimmerman prior to Martin being shot. He said he was disappointed that he did not see any mention of that conflict that led to Martin’s murder. “But it’s worse than that,” said Dershowitz. “It’s irresponsible and unethical in not including material that favors the defendant.”
“This affidavit does not even make it to probable cause,” Dershowitz concluded. “everything in the affidavit is completely consistent with a defense of self-defense. Everything.”

 

[Michie]

Thank you eastcoast. This case makes me nervous for everyone. I think there might be a repeat of Hardball tonight. I need to check.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Thank you eastcoast. This case makes me nervous for everyone. I think there might be a repeat of Hardball tonight. I need to check.

Do they have satellite in your are ?

 

[Fantine]

And in the show that followed this show, a defense lawyer who had fought many cases against Angela Corey said that she wins 90% of cases she brings to court, and wins 83% that go to juries. The lawyer said that Corey has a strong record against gun violence and a real heart for victims of crime. She said that Corey is an independent prosecutor who does not use public opinion in determining the facts of a case.

I am sure that Dershowitz, who has looked at cases through the perspective of a celebrity defense attorney most of his life, is telling the truth as he sees it. And if that's how Dershowitz sees it, there may be a loophole or two a defense attorney can exploit.

Two attorneys can look at a set of facts and see different things. This is the case with Corey and Dershowitz. In this case, my view of the facts is more similar to the prosecutor's.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

What makes me nervous, aside from the potential violence, is that they might be willing to hang this guy even though the facts don't rise to that level.

I do believe he was an idiot following the kid. But the case needs to either stand or fall in regards to the law.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

And in the show that followed this show, a defense lawyer who had fought many cases against Angela Corey said that she wins 90% of cases she brings to court, and wins 83% that go to juries. The lawyer said that Corey has a strong record against gun violence and a real heart for victims of crime. She said that Corey is an independent prosecutor who does not use public opinion in determining the facts of a case.

I am sure that Dershowitz, who has looked at cases through the perspective of a celebrity defense attorney most of his life, is telling the truth as he sees it. And if that's how Dershowitz sees it, there may be a loophole or two a defense attorney can exploit.

Two attorneys can look at a set of facts and see different things. This is the case with Corey and Dershowitz. In this case, my view of the facts is more similar to the prosecutor's.

Explain to me, how the facts as we know , mount to a 2nd degree murder charge ? You don't mention the other lawyer on Hardball, a left of center show who agreed with Dershowitz.

Dershowitz was correct about the politics. Why do judges and prosecutors in Florida have to run for their seats as if they were politicians ?

You can indict a ham sandwich but then you have to prove your case. Why didn't the affidavit have any of the evidence that would support the defendents case ? i.e. Bloody head wound and grass on the back of his shirt.

 

[Fantine]

They won't hang him. The maximum sentence for second degree murder in Florida is life imprisonment.

Do you know that states who have enacted "stand your ground" laws have had twice as many "justifiable homicides" since the laws were enacted? That means that twice as many people have decided that they can be judge, jury and executioner of the person by whom they felt "threatened." And, given the actions of the Sanford police department, I wonder how many of those additional justifiable homicides were really justifiable--or whether they were just cover-up-able homicides.

But let's say that there really are twice as many justifiable "homicides." How many of those shooters are fraught with anguish and emotional pain, thinking, "Maybe I could have saved myself without killing someone else."

Post-abortive syndrome exists......I am sure that post-vigilante syndrome, or post-Dirty Harry syndrome, or whatever you choose to call it exists, too.

Zimmerman is the one who got caught....but if it makes every potential shooter wait ten seconds....or twenty seconds....then his trial will happen for a greater good.

I don't think the doubling of "justifiable homicides" is a coincidence....I think we have people acting erratically and impulsively because they know they can get away with it.....

It's time for all of them to take a step back and realize that no one should ever take a life impulsively.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

They won't hang him. The maximum sentence for second degree murder in Florida is life imprisonment.

Do you know that states who have enacted "stand your ground" laws have had twice as many "justifiable homicides" since the laws were enacted? That means that twice as many people have decided that they can be judge, jury and executioner of the person by whom they felt "threatened." And, given the actions of the Sanford police department, I wonder how many of those additional justifiable homicides were really justifiable--or whether they were just cover-up-able homicides.

But let's say that there really are twice as many justifiable "homicides." How many of those shooters are fraught with anguish and emotional pain, thinking, "Maybe I could have saved myself without killing someone else."

Post-abortive syndrome exists......I am sure that post-vigilante syndrome, or post-Dirty Harry syndrome, or whatever you choose to call it exists, too.

Zimmerman is the one who got caught....but if it makes every potential shooter wait ten seconds....or twenty seconds....then his trial will happen for a greater good.

I don't think the doubling of "justifiable homicides" is a coincidence....I think we have people acting erratically and impulsively because they know they can get away with it.....

It's time for all of them to take a step back and realize that no one should ever take a life impulsively.

I think they are going to argue the facts, not navel gaze.

 

[Michie]

Do they have satellite in your are ?

Yes but I hear the speed isn't much better. I need to check into it again. My phone co. still does not offer it here.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

By the way Fantine, can you post those statistics ?

The case needs to stand on the facts, there is a law "Stand your ground" in Florida. If indeed Mr. Zimmerman was attacked by the 6"2 Trayvon, then the judge is going to be hard pressed on allowing this case to go to trial.

Everything else you spoke of was opinion. Would I be out of line in assuming that you would prefer we not uphold the 2nd amendment ( Right to keep and bar arms) ?

 

[Fantine]

The Second Amendment has been stretched out of all reasonable proportion by judges who legislate from the bench (in this case, conservative justices).

The Second Amendment talks about a well-regulated militia--implying that the reason why citizens own guns is to come to the plate in national defense when necessary.

As Antigone and Silvio have said, the enormous number of weapons available in this country have made them readily available to criminals--like the drug dealer who shot those five policemen in New Hampshire, God rest their souls.

Police departments across the country are almost universally opposed to stand your ground laws, assault weapons availability, and gun-happy judges legislating from the bench.

Here's one article that talks about an increase in justifiable homicides:

Data finds link between justifiable homicides and weak gun control laws | World news | guardian.co.uk

As my hubby and I near retirement, Florida would be the last place I'd ever move. I'm going on a business conference there this fall, and I will be very careful not to go out alone at night.

I was thinking last night. I would feel safer with a paroled sex-offender in my neighborhood than with someone like George Zimmerman. The paroled sex offender would be identifiable. He would be unarmed. I could use simple precautions to protect myself and my family. But with someone like George Zimmerman, I'd have to worry about the safety of guests to my home, particularly if they were members of ethnic minorities, and my own family, particularly the younger ones. All of those could be profiled.

 

[Fantine]

Thanks, Eastcoast. In solidarity with the bishops, the unjust laws I will protest and pray about June 21-July 4 will have to do with gun access, and I will make contributions to the Brady organization and others.

It is time for those of us who believe in non-violence to take our country back.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Um....

....when did people start caring about what Dershowitz has to say about anything.

I mean,

supposedly he's an appeal's court specialist

has he ever WON an appeal ?

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

The Second Amendment has been stretched out of all reasonable proportion by judges who legislate from the bench (in this case, conservative justices).

The Second Amendment talks about a well-regulated militia--implying that the reason why citizens own guns is to come to the plate in national defense when necessary.

As Antigone and Silvio have said, the enormous number of weapons available in this country have made them readily available to criminals--like the drug dealer who shot those five policemen in New Hampshire, God rest their souls.

Police departments across the country are almost universally opposed to stand your ground laws, assault weapons availability, and gun-happy judges legislating from the bench.

Here's one article that talks about an increase in justifiable homicides:

Data finds link between justifiable homicides and weak gun control laws | World news | guardian.co.uk

As my hubby and I near retirement, Florida would be the last place I'd ever move. I'm going on a business conference there this fall, and I will be very careful not to go out alone at night.

I was thinking last night. I would feel safer with a paroled sex-offender in my neighborhood than with someone like George Zimmerman. The paroled sex offender would be identifiable. He would be unarmed. I could use simple precautions to protect myself and my family. But with someone like George Zimmerman, I'd have to worry about the safety of guests to my home, particularly if they were members of ethnic minorities, and my own family, particularly the younger ones. All of those could be profiled.

Well that's pretty disturbing that you would prefer a sex offender. I assume you don't have children. Every supreme court since the inception of the Supreme court have upheld the 2nd amendments right to bear arms. If we take that right away, then we descend into anarchy, all bets are off. Revolution would probably ensue.