the awaited messiah of the Jews

[LoAmmi]

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Interesting. I clicked the link and got there just fine.

Try just going to Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software and getting to the right chapter/verse.

 

[SanFrank]

The entire psalm deals with the Lord; that much is very clear. If this is not prophecy, I don't know what is. v18 "http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/psalms/22.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-35they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots" -- specifically mentioned by John in 19.24.

 

[LoAmmi]

The entire psalm deals with the Lord; that much is very clear. If this is not prophecy, I don't know what is. v18 "they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots" -- specifically mentioned by John in 19.24.

Why did the guards decide to divide Jesus' blood stained and useless garments exactly?

The entire thing is about the life of David. I would argue, simply, that the Gospel writers inserted the themes into the story of Jesus, not that they happened and it lined up.

 

[SanFrank]

Why was the word understood as pierced by all observers before the masoretes called it lion?

 

[LoAmmi]

Why was the word understood as pierced by all observers before the masoretes called it lion?

Because Ka'Ari means lion. The word is used a few verses before and is translated as lion. David is also describing all his enemies as animals. It fit the theme.

 

[SanFrank]

All prior renditions have it 'pierced' up till the masoretes.

You suggest the gospel writers invented the stories... please. They were Jews. Such a thing would have been heinous and worthy of Gd's wrath and they knew of the consequences. Then they perished upholding their stories? please.

By the way, is Colel Chabad a reputable organization?

 

[LoAmmi]

All prior renditions have it 'pierced' up till the masoretes.

You suggest the gospel writers invented the stories... please. They were Jews. Such a thing would have been heinous and worthy of Gd's wrath and they knew of the consequences. Then they perished upholding their stories? please.

You suggest we changed our Bible. Hey, guess what? We're JEWS. I thought such a thing would be heinous and worthy of wrath, right?

 

[LoAmmi]

Also, how do YOU know "All prior renditions" exactly? How do you know our texts did not always say the same thing?

 

[SanFrank]

Good reply. But you must admit these differences between MT and older scriptures seem skewed against christian claimed prophecies. And changing one or two words is not the same as inventing 'the messiah'.

 

[SanFrank]

Also, how do YOU know "All prior renditions" exactly? How do you know our texts did not always say the same thing?

I gave you septuagint and dead sea scrolls, prior renditions to the MT.

 

[LoAmmi]

I gave you septuagint and dead sea scrolls, prior renditions to the MT.

Are you suggesting that the MT came from the Septuagint?

 

[SanFrank]

Do you have Targum? Supposedly psalm 21.1 had 'king messiah' but the 'messiah' part was removed from MT. But then it is not in septuagint either so not something anyone could blame masorettes.

 

[SanFrank]

Are you suggesting that the MT came from the Septuagint?

No. I understand the rabbi had the targum and that is now lost.

 

[LoAmmi]

Do you have Targum? Supposedly psalm 21.1 had 'king messiah' but the 'messiah' part was removed from MT. But then it is not in septuagint either so not something anyone could blame masorettes.

It is a meaningless phrase anyway unless there are other clues pointing to The Messiah. David was king messiah.

 

[LoAmmi]

No. I understand the rabbi had the targum and that is now lost.

So you do not believe the Jewish people had any copies of the Hebrew text? That we abandoned the Hebrew?

 

[SanFrank]

So you do not believe the Jewish people had any copies of the Hebrew text? That we abandoned the Hebrew?

What are you leading to?

 

[LoAmmi]

What are you leading to?

Just because we do not have texts does not mean that they did not exist. There may be a lineage leading up to the MT we do not have complete records for.

 

[SanFrank]

I could only conjecture from here. Fact is septuagint (200BC) and MT (7th Century AD) differ in at least two respects where prophecy of the Lord is mentioned. And the masoretes had the septuagint to compare with.

 

[LoAmmi]

I could only conjecture from here. Fact is septuagint (200BC) and MT (7th Century AD) differ in at least two respects where prophecy of the Lord is mentioned. And the masoretes had the septuagint to compare with.

Except Jews have never considered them prophecy and we do not flinch at something that looks really good like Isaiah 53. Why did they not just remove that entirely or severely change that?

 

[SanFrank]

Because psalm 8.2 targets the priests according to mathew 21.

Why is isaiah 53 avoided in rabinical schools today?