the awaited messiah of the Jews

[dfw69]

Alright. But the text is clear. Jesus says that John came in the spirit of Elijah. To dispute this is to put the entire Gospel in question.

the only ones that need too be convince are his enemies....those that are friends need no convincing

the gospel has always been in question what are you talking about?

 

[dfw69]

loAmmi,,, as i sit here eating fajitas...i was wondering ....someone told me we will not eat meat in the messianic era...is it true?

 

[Booko]

Yes...but this next messiah is suppose to persecute by laws....and carried out by his followers....according to the new testament....he will seek to establish peace....and when they say peace and safety....then sudden destruction comes upon them

It would help a bit if you could kinda give me a cite here to work with.

A statement about the Messiah like "The Government Will Be Upon His Shoulders" does not mean the government must be some sort of despotic organization that persecutes anyone.

The very idea that "The Government" of a Messiah would be like that flies straight in the face of the idea of peace and tranquility.

People do not hammer swords into plowshares when they are under oppressive governments. They keep their arms handy.

The Bible prophecies may show some aspects of judgement, but overall they paint a picture of an Earth people might be pretty happy to live in. They don't show the Messiah as an evil dude bound to persecute anyone.

 

[dfw69]

It would help a bit if you could kinda give me a cite here to work with.

A statement about the Messiah like "The Government Will Be Upon His Shoulders" does not mean the government must be some sort of despotic organization that persecutes anyone.

The very idea that "The Government" of a Messiah would be like that flies straight in the face of the idea of peace and tranquility.

People do not hammer swords into plowshares when they are under oppressive governments. They keep their arms handy.

The Bible prophecies may show some aspects of judgement, but overall they paint a picture of an Earth people might be pretty happy to live in. They don't show the Messiah as an evil dude bound to persecute anyone.

but sis.... with statements throughout the new testament such as this....the kingdom of heaven suffer violence...and the violent take it by force....suggest that forceful events take place first....then throw in deceptions and false doctrines.... the world will go through travail before giving birth to the true millenuium....not by the will of God....but man one with the prince and power of the air....in purpose....

i dont know what your looking for?

 

[dfw69]

It would help a bit if you could kinda give me a cite here to work with.

A statement about the Messiah like "The Government Will Be Upon His Shoulders" does not mean the government must be some sort of despotic organization that persecutes anyone.

The very idea that "The Government" of a Messiah would be like that flies straight in the face of the idea of peace and tranquility.

People do not hammer swords into plowshares when they are under oppressive governments. They keep their arms handy.

The Bible prophecies may show some aspects of judgement, but overall they paint a picture of an Earth people might be pretty happy to live in. They don't show the Messiah as an evil dude bound to persecute anyone.

the messiah you seek is jesus.....he will fullfill the messianic prophecies accourding to the will of the father....you will not stumble if you wait for him to fulfill the messianic prophesies....

 

[Huram Abi]

well if jesus meant what you think he meant...then he is a false prophet yes?

how can one man be another man when he is that man?...if a man can only be himself.....then jesus was speaking symbolically....and since we know elijah is yet to come....then john was not elijah...nor the fulfillment of the prophecy of elijah return before the great and terrible day

We both know what Jesus SAID about the matter.

If you think he isn't being truthful and wish to call him a false prophet, don't include me in it.

That's your claim, not mine.

 

[LoAmmi]

loAmmi,,, as i sit here eating fajitas...i was wondering ....someone told me we will not eat meat in the messianic era...is it true?

I suppose it is possible. I do not see why it would be necessary, however.

 

[LoAmmi]

the messiah you seek is jesus.....he will fullfill the messianic prophecies accourding to the will of the father....you will not stumble if you wait for him to fulfill the messianic prophesies....

That would be the Christian understanding, yes.

 

[dfw69]

We both know what Jesus SAID about the matter.

If you think he isn't being truthful and wish to call him a false prophet, don't include me in it.

That's your claim, not mine.

in this way you choose to answer my question?...okay i know where you stand

but dont assume i believe jesus said john was elijah...i believe jesus said john was the spirit of elijah....a ...whats the word?....antitype?.... i guess

but you and i both know that john is not elijah....and i have said that i believe elijah is still to come..jesus is a true prophet and son of god

 

[SanFrank]

Prayer alert for israel: http://www.cfijerusalem.net/pdf/Alert032812.pdf

 

[Huram Abi]

Hey, I'm with you on John being an allusion to Elijah and not Elijah himself.

John even says he is not Elijah but is simply "one crying in the wilderness" (an allusion to Elijah.

Gabriel tells John's father while John is in the womb that he will come "in the spirit and power of Elijah."


While, no I don't believe John is literally Elijah, the references to Elijah in the NT are attributable to John and not Jesus, whether intended to be metaphorocal or literal.

You'd be surprised by how much of the NT I believe is allegorical and not literal. But I assume that what we are talking about is literal for the sake of addressing Cupid Dave's bizzarre claims. For my own personal purposes, I know better.

 

[dfw69]

in this way you choose to answer my question?...okay i know where you stand

but dont assume i believe jesus said john was elijah...i believe jesus said john was the spirit of elijah....a ...whats the word?....antitype?.... i guess

but you and i both know that john is not elijah....and i have said that i believe elijah is still to come..jesus is a true prophet and son of god

antitype is not the word i was looking for.....foreshaddowing is the word....anyway john came and worked in the same manner (in spirit) that elijah will come....in judaism this concept should not be hard to understand

 

[dfw69]

Hey, I'm with you on John being an allusion to Elijah and not Elijah himself.

John even says he is not Elijah but is simply "one crying in the wilderness" (an allusion to Elijah.

Gabriel tells John's father while John is in the womb that he will come "in the spirit and power of Elijah."


While, no I don't believe John is literally Elijah, the references to Elijah in the NT are attributable to John and not Jesus, whether intended to be metaphorocal or literal.

You'd be surprised by how much of the NT I believe is allegorical and not literal. But I assume that what we are talking about is literal for the sake of addressing Cupid Dave's bizzarre claims. For my own personal purposes, I know better.

well then... we agree john is not elijah...good

now.... if we can only agree that jesus did not teach that john was elijah but an allegory then we have a winner....for if you and i can comprehend this....would not the son of God also know that john was not elijah , being the son of God?

 

[SanFrank]

the messiah you seek is jesus.....he will fullfill the messianic prophecies accourding to the will of the father....you will not stumble if you wait for him to fulfill the messianic prophesies....

That would be the Christian understanding, yes.

We saw one incidence where Masoretic text differs from Septuagint concerning the Lord fulfilling prophecy. How about two incidences?

Psalm 22.16-18 in the septuagint prophetically describes events fulfilled by the Lord at the crucifixion... events confirmed by the gospel of John 19.24.

Septuagint ps 22.16 "For many dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked doers has beset me round: they pierced my hands and my feet."

Dead sea scrolls, 5/6Hev, ps 22.16 "For many dogs have compassed me; a gang of evildoers encircles me. They have pierced my hands and my feet."

Masoretic text, ps 22.16 "Dogs are all around me, a pack of villains closes in on me like a lion [at] my hands and feet."
​

Again, one could look at this and conlude that rabbi forming the masoretic text changed a word that concerned prophecy christians claim the Lord fulfilled.

This observation serves only to enlighten our Jewish audience on the accuracy of the gospels and the Lord's fulfillment of prophecy. Thank you Lord for Israel through whom salvation has come into the world.

 

[Huram Abi]

It's not me you have to convince...

 

[dfw69]

It's not me you have to convince...

convince you of what?....your still convince Jesus taught john was actually elijah ?

 

[Huram Abi]

That Jesus, without any sort of coersion as Cupid implies, did say thatJohn was Elijah, but he meant so metaphorically.

You see, Cupid's faith is contingent on Jesus being Elijah, because he needs for Jesus to be the forerunner of the messiah, but not the messiah.

I have good reason to believe he thinks that Jesus is the forerunner to himself.

This is why it is so important for him to push the idea that Jesus was Elijah (just the forerunner to the messiah who is born in this age. 1980, to be specific)

 

[LoAmmi]

We saw one incidence where Masoretic text differs from Septuagint concerning the Lord fulfilling prophecy. How about two incidences?

Psalm 22.16-18 in the septuagint prophetically describes events fulfilled by the Lord at the crucifixion... events confirmed by the gospel of John 19.24.

Septuagint ps 22.16 "For many dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked doers has beset me round: they pierced my hands and my feet."

Dead sea scrolls, 5/6Hev, ps 22.16 "For many dogs have compassed me; a gang of evildoers encircles me. They have pierced my hands and my feet."

Masoretic text, ps 22.16 "Dogs are all around me, a pack of villains closes in on me like a lion [at] my hands and feet."
​

Again, one could look at this and conlude that rabbi forming the masoretic text changed a word that concerned prophecy christians claim the Lord fulfilled.

This observation serves only to enlighten our Jewish audience on the accuracy of the gospels and the Lord's fulfillment of prophecy. Thank you Lord for Israel through whom salvation has come into the world.

The word in question is Ka'Ari if I recall. It is also used later in the chapter which is translated as lion. I think it is supposed to be very similar to pierce or dig.

Also, and let me just make this really clear...

THIS IS NOT A PROPHECY.

This is about David. We see no hallmarks of prophecy here. None of the clear references to the Messiah, none of the references to the Messianic age. This is about DAVID.

It is only a prophecy because you conjure it is.

 

[LoAmmi]

I invite everybody to go to the following site and look at the Hebrew and literal translation and compare it to the English.

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/psa22.pdf

 

[Huram Abi]

I invite everybody to go to the following site and look at the Hebrew and literal translation and compare it to the English.

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/psa22.pdf

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