How many other children did Mary have?

[Montalban]

BTW, are you French or Irish? If both, it is no wonder you are so confused!

I am neither. The small flag next to my icon is that of the Commonwealth of Australia.

You may have heard of it.

The writing in my sig is Scots-Gaelic.

My UserName relates to a Frankish prince's (Rinaldo) castle.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I'm not sure if you're joking or not. I'll just assume you're not and you can tell me if I missed your joke.

The KJV is a particular translation/version of the bible that came about when James VI of Scotland became James I of England. He called for a standard English version of the bible.

Paul lived some 1,600 years earlier.

The 'bible' that Paul had was the OT. He couldn't have had the NT because he was writing some of its books.

These books that he wrote didn't authorise themselves. Paul authorised his own writing.

Actually, the OT Prophets, Paul and the rest of the Apostles were but "scribes"; the Holy Spirit was the Author; God breathed, God Authorized!

 

[jackmt]

I'm not sure if you're joking or not. I'll just assume you're not and you can tell me if I missed your joke.

The KJV is a particular translation/version of the bible that came about when James VI of Scotland became James I of England. He called for a standard English version of the bible.

Paul lived some 1,600 years earlier.

The 'bible' that Paul had was the OT. He couldn't have had the NT because he was writing some of its books.

These books that he wrote didn't authorise themselves. Paul authorised his own writing.

I sensed you were calling me an ignoramus when you said "Then the bible must have organised [sic] itself." That you felt the need to explain everything about the KJV confirms it.

And in response to why I left the RCC:

1) If you believe it was founded by the Apostles, why are you not RC? And if you can justify not being RC, why are you questioning me on the matter?

2) It was not founded by the Apostles, nor Christ.

I believe the RCC to be on the exteme fringe of Christianity. It is possible for some to be Christian and RC. It was not possible for me.

Don't worry about it. The joke refers to a sterotypically simplistic Southern Baptist mentality. I thought everyone knew the joke. A related SB joke is that we know Paul was a SB because he was glad that he "spoke in tongues more than y'all."

 

[Philothei]

By popular demand to keep the mary-go-round running. Here's another explanation of adelphos (brother in greek) from NAB translators.

The translation of the Greek word adelphos, particularly in the plural form adelphoi, poses an especially delicate problem. While the term literally means brothers or other male blood relatives, even in profane Greek the plural can designate two persons, one of either sex, who were born of the same parents. It was adopted by the early Christians to designate, in a figurative sense, the members of the Christian community, who were conscious of a new familial relationship to one another by reason of their adoption as children of God. They are consequently addressed as adelphoi. This has traditionally been rendered into English by brothers or, more archaically, brethren. There has never been any doubt that this designation includes all the members of the Christian community, both male and female.
USCCB - Preface the Revised Edition of the New Testament

Greek Adelphos (not hebrew ach)
blood brother (same parents, or same one parent)
spiritual brother (born-again, adopted into the family of God)

Folks want more?

I disagree as Adelfos(αδελφο&#962 is masculine and Adelfe (αδελφ&#951 is feminine gender. I have no idea why anyone would not see that it is so obvious and fuhter more it means roughly : brother , half brother, step brother, kinsman, nephew, uncle, or cousin (adelfos for male cousin and adlfe for female cousin) I already explained this before.

Also there are places like in the Epistles that Paul calls his fellow Christians "brethren" Adelfoi... Thus this noun is NOT interpreted the same way in various passages of the NT. Now why you some object to the LXX I have no idea or to the Hebrew translation... It is similar to the Greek as far as I know. But it is used as such in the Scripture so it does not really matter


ΕΤΑ I decided to decline it for y'all :

both genders:
Masculine Feminine Singular
nominative ο αδελφος η αδελφη
Genitive του αδελφου της αδελφης
Dative τω αδελφω τη αδελφη
Accusative τον αδελφον την αδελφην
Vocative ω αδελφε ω αδελφη

Nominative οι αδελφοι αι αδελφαι
Genitive των αδελφων των αδελφων
Dative τοις αδελφοις ταις αδελφαις
Accusative τους αδελφους τας αδελφας
Vocative ω αδελφοι ω αδελφαι

 

[Standing Up]

I disagree as Adelfos(αδελφο&#962 is masculine and Adelfe (αδελφ&#951 is feminine gender. I have no idea why anyone would not see that it is so obvious and fuhter more it means roughly : brother , half brother, step brother, kinsman, nephew, uncle, or cousin (adelfos for male cousin and adlfe for female cousin) I already explained this before.

It's also been explained that the Hebrew word for "brother" is not equivalent to the Greek word for "brother", though the two were translated as such.

Besides your not understanding why the editors of NAS bible don't "see it your way", have you something a little more scholarly?

What is the scholar view of the Greek word brother? Something about 'same womb'? Any idea?

 

[Philothei]

It's also been explained that the Hebrew word for "brother" is not equivalent to the Greek word for "brother", though the two were translated as such.

Besides your not understanding why the editors of NAS bible don't "see it your way", have you something a little more scholarly?

What is the scholar view of the Greek word brother? Something about 'same womb'? Any idea?

Standing up the Hebrew in translation is the same as the Greek. Second nah they see it as one gender and obviously it is two genders period if you can find information as to why they claim it is one gender then you can go and find it I am not willing to do the research for you. You claim it .I show you already the two genders and how they decline. The plural in the text in Matthew is Adelfoi and Aldelfai...

55ουχ ουτος εστιν ο του τεκτονος υιος ουχ η μητηρ αυτου λεγεται μαριαμ και οι αδελφοι αυτου ιακωβος και ιωσηφ και σιμων και ιουδας 56και αι αδελφαι αυτου ουχι πασαι προς ημας εισιν ποθεν ουν τουτω ταυτα παντα


Matt. 13 ^


You can see that KJV translates it his brethren and his sisters while in actuality it is :brethren, kinsmen cousins, nephews, uncles, step brothers, brothers and for the adelfai it is the fenimine for the ones above. Yeah they are wrong. I know my language and all and if you cannot see it I cannot do a thing I am sure others can...



the root of the word has to do with the womb but not the same womb.. as "a=delphis" would actually mean the opposite... It also means step brother and half-bother. The usage of Brother int he NT times is NOT used ONLY for the blood relatives so even if it means ALL these meanings it just come to show you that it is not an exclusive name ...But we have gone the Mary-go-around this issue millions or trilliosn of times ....brother Standing Up.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Standing up the Hebrew in translation is the same as the Greek. Second nah they see it as one gender and obviously it is two genders period if you can find information as to why they claim it is one gender then you can go and find it I am not willing to do the research for you. You claim it .I show you already the two genders and how they decline. The plural in the text in Matthew is Adelfoi and Aldelfai...

55ουχ ουτος εστιν ο του τεκτονος υιος ουχ η μητηρ αυτου λεγεται μαριαμ και οι αδελφοι αυτου ιακωβος και ιωσηφ και σιμων και ιουδας 56και αι αδελφαι αυτου ουχι πασαι προς ημας εισιν ποθεν ουν τουτω ταυτα παντα


Matt. 13 ^


You can see that KJV translates it his brethren and his sisters while in actuality it is :brethren, kinsmen cousins, nephews, uncles, step brothers, brothers and for the adelfai it is the fenimine for the ones above. Yeah they are wrong. I know my language and all and if you cannot see it I cannot do a thing I am sure others can...



the root of the word has to do with the womb but not the same womb.. as "a=delphis" would actually mean the opposite... It also means step brother and half-bother. The usage of Brother int he NT times is NOT used ONLY for the blood relatives so even if it means ALL these meanings it just come to show you that it is not an exclusive name ...But we have gone the Mary-go-around this issue millions or trilliosn of times ....brother Standing Up.

One of the myriad difficulties that you and other individuals who debase the marital state of Mary and Joseph is that your very own translators of the Bible agree with every other translator of the English Bible and clearly use the terms, brothers and sisters, in reference to our Lord, Jesus Christ. If, indeed, these rare meanings that you are so adamantly defending, were the actual case, it would certainly behoove at least one RCC or one EOC translation to use these tertiary meanings in at least one of the disputed texts. Why is this?

 

[Philothei]

One of the myriad difficulties that you and other individuals who debase the marital state of Mary and Joseph is that your very own translators of the Bible agree with every other translator of the English Bible and clearly use the terms, brothers and sisters, in reference to our Lord, Jesus Christ. If, indeed, these rare meanings that you are so adamantly defending, were the actual case, it would certainly behoove at least one RCC or one EOC translation to use these tertiary meanings in at least one of the disputed texts. Why is this?

Because in Greek it is obvious of the meaning .. Think! We do not even use translations we all know the content of the verses.. when Paul says brothers he means brethren... Same word but different context You question has no bearing as in Greek we all know the different meanings. It is when it gets translated to other languages that it has to be studied and explained.

 

[Montalban]

Actually, the OT Prophets, Paul and the rest of the Apostles were but "scribes"; the Holy Spirit was the Author; God breathed, God Authorized!

I can see why you say this as even Peter made mistakes.

 

[Montalban]

I sensed you were calling me an ignoramus when you said "Then the bible must have organised [sic] itself." That you felt the need to explain everything about the KJV confirms it.

I had no idea about your educational standard. I stated a fact that the bible didn't organise itself. It didn't. How it came into being would be the first step in showing you why you're wrong.

And in response to why I left the RCC:

1) If you believe it was founded by the Apostles, why are you not RC? And if you can justify not being RC, why are you questioning me on the matter?

I left the RCC. I know why I left it. I don't know why you left it. Asking you helps me know.

2) It was not founded by the Apostles, nor Christ.

Acts of the Apostles seems to disagree with you. It's not called "Acts of every Joe who followed Christ"

I believe the RCC to be on the exteme fringe of Christianity. It is possible for some to be Christian and RC. It was not possible for me.

A fringe of the largest group seems to undermine what 'fringe' means

Don't worry about it. The joke refers to a sterotypically simplistic Southern Baptist mentality. I thought everyone knew the joke.

I'm not American. I may have pointed that out already

A related SB joke is that we know Paul was a SB because he was glad that he "spoke in tongues more than y'all."

Okay.

 

[Montalban]

One of the myriad difficulties that you and other individuals who debase the marital state of Mary and Joseph is that your very own translators of the Bible agree with every other translator of the English Bible and clearly use the terms, brothers and sisters, in reference to our Lord, Jesus Christ. If, indeed, these rare meanings that you are so adamantly defending, were the actual case, it would certainly behoove at least one RCC or one EOC translation to use these tertiary meanings in at least one of the disputed texts. Why is this?

One of the difficulties I see is that you call it a 'debasement' when their marriage was already unusual - unless you think pregnancy outside marriage is to be 'normal'?

 

[Montalban]

What's it matter what the Hebrew word is for the NT?

 

[Montalban]

No greater love hath a man than he that would give up his life for only the male members of his immediate family

This is a rather restrictive meaning we must assume Christianity now has (given the meaning of 'brother' some believe in)

We're to exclude female members of our family and all other male members...

 

[Standing Up]

.

 

[Montalban]

The obvious meaning is the non-restrictive meaning of brethren given in my post above

 

[Standing Up]

Standing up the Hebrew in translation is the same as the Greek. Second nah they see it as one gender and obviously it is two genders period if you can find information as to why they claim it is one gender then you can go and find it I am not willing to do the research for you. You claim it .I show you already the two genders and how they decline. The plural in the text in Matthew is Adelfoi and Aldelfai...

55ουχ ουτος εστιν ο του τεκτονος υιος ουχ η μητηρ αυτου λεγεται μαριαμ και οι αδελφοι αυτου ιακωβος και ιωσηφ και σιμων και ιουδας 56και αι αδελφαι αυτου ουχι πασαι προς ημας εισιν ποθεν ουν τουτω ταυτα παντα


Matt. 13 ^


You can see that KJV translates it his brethren and his sisters while in actuality it is :brethren, kinsmen cousins, nephews, uncles, step brothers, brothers and for the adelfai it is the fenimine for the ones above. Yeah they are wrong. I know my language and all and if you cannot see it I cannot do a thing I am sure others can...



the root of the word has to do with the womb but not the same womb.. as "a=delphis" would actually mean the opposite... It also means step brother and half-bother. The usage of Brother int he NT times is NOT used ONLY for the blood relatives so even if it means ALL these meanings it just come to show you that it is not an exclusive name ...But we have gone the Mary-go-around this issue millions or trilliosn of times ....brother Standing Up.

Sister Philothei--My apologies for dragging you into this based on 4 other people's comments.

SUp

 

[Philothei]

What are the obvious meanings, in Greek of the Greek word adelphos? Forget the Hebrew word translated brother for a moment.

I already mentioned them... in my post just go and look

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No greater love hath a man than he that would give up his life for only the male members of his immediate family

This is a rather restrictive meaning we must assume Christianity now has (given the meaning of 'brother' some believe in)

We're to exclude female members of our family and all other male members...

Isn't that rather sexist? So much for women's lib

 

[razeontherock]

I thought that Paul had the Septuagint, which Protestants reject

Since when does Pr reject that?

 

[Philothei]

I think Strong's refers to the Adelfoi as a "genetic name" for both sisters and brothers... that is the confusion BUT we know that this kind of "adelfoi" is within its context refering to both genders ...In the case of Matt 13 though it is specific it mentions both genders that is why I put a fuss...Storngs makes a generalization that is NOT there in other places of the usage of the word Adelfos....Thus the mistake ... It is not used arbitrarily but whithin context.

Matt 13 is used in both genders and cousins etc are indeed part of the name adelfos /adefle...sorry to repeat it but hope that makes sense now.