Cosmic Charlie
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated
I hope you feel better about yourselves for it.
Because you're not actually stopping abortions
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Rate of Abortion is highest in countries where it is illegal
- Thread starter Gwendolyn
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I hope you feel better about yourselves for it.
Because you're not actually stopping abortions
Brooklyn Knight
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Where there's a will, there is a way.
Illegal, legal, hasn't stopped women from seeking cheaper but unsafe and late term abortions.
Illegal, legal, hasn't stopped women from seeking cheaper but unsafe and late term abortions.
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Cosmic Charlie
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated
Gee, I don't know.
When was the last time a pro-life organization used its lobbying weight to lean on legislators to back a tax hike or fund an organization the would help single mothers, increase infant/child assistance, or even raise a tax to increase child care help as a pro-life issue ?
Like,
never.
So lets not false all over our dichotomies. Because, I am sorry to say, I have never seen the pro-life movement back anything as a pro-life cause if it would actually cost its members any money.
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Brooklyn Knight
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What? There are groups constantly saying that people are abusing social programs by popping out more kids. More kids in the family, higher government check.
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It would be nice if you would read my posts. The Catholic Church is the mother of all Pro-Life organizations, and no government in history has ever done as much to help the poor as the Catholic Church has done. Plus, the government won't lift a finger for the poor unless the poor first agree to the terms the government imposes on them. When a poor person comes to the Church with need of help, the Catholic Church doesn't ask them if they are a Catholic before helping them.
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MikeK
Traditionalist Catholic
How so? Name me one "pro-life" group that advocates for the criteria I layed out (except the Church in a roundabout sense - while her teachings on social justice certainly do demand that no person is deprived of food, education, shelter, medical attention, etc - she is advocating a position, not providing long term no cost care in most situations) If a woman came to my Church saying "I'm pregnant, I don't know who the dad is, I'm going to need supplies, food until the child can support itself, a house or apartment, free school (at the good school, not the crappy one in the questionable neighborhood, free healthcare for my child and I until my child is an adult, an education for myself, etc or I'm getting an abortion".....well, she'd probably be getting an abortion. Some Scandinavian countries do provide this level of service (and also pay for abortions) and they enjoy abortion rates somewhat lower than ours, even without having Christian beliefs telling them that they might be damned for their decision.
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The Pro-Life people in the Church are the same ones who believe 100% in all the teachings of the Church. And they get criticized because of that. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to try to separate them from the charity that the Church does. They are one in the same. Sorry that the truth doesn't fit with what you want them to be.
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Brooklyn Knight
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Food stamps, SSI, city housing, public schools (Up to her to drive the kid to that school of her choosing), city/state health insurance, city/state aid in paying for utilities.
Also, I don't know if this is only applicable to kids who has a parent on disability, but whatever that person gets from Social Security, they get an extra half of that amount until the child is 18.
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Scandinavian countries are a very interesting example of social programs.
Anyway, someone on another board I read posted an ultrasound of her 10-week-old baby. The little guy is really animated already. I didn't know they could be animated at 10 weeks.
Say hello to my little friend! - YouTube
Anyway, someone on another board I read posted an ultrasound of her 10-week-old baby. The little guy is really animated already. I didn't know they could be animated at 10 weeks.
Say hello to my little friend! - YouTube
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MikeK
Traditionalist Catholic
I don't understand this post.
Who gets criticized for believing all of the Church's teachings? I believe all of them, nobody criticizes me. People like me. I'm friendly and I have pretty eyes.
The Church does not at this time (and I don't think it could if it wanted to) provide all of the services I mentioned on the scale I mentioned. It does advocate for them. Sadly, believe it or not, there are people who call themselves "Catholic" and "pro-life" who do not oppose wars that don't meet the standards set by just war doctrine, or who do not believe that health care is a human right. Certainly, some do....but there are a lot of cafeteria Catholics out there.
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Brooklyn Knight
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In NYC, you don't really feel sorry for the poor due to all the programs they have available.
You feel much more sympathy to the middle-class because all the avenues they may seek are shutdown depending on how much is in the bank account or what assets you have. Even if it just amounts to $1000 or $2000, you're left to fend for yourself.
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Just because someone doesn't agree with you on HOW to help the poor doesn't mean that they are against helping the poor. And whether or not a war is just or unjust is debatable unless something like the holocaust is going on. You are stereotyping Pro-Life people and painting them with one broad brush. For example, I'm Pro-Life, and I voted for Bush. But from the beginning I thought Iraq was a mistake. However, there were many Pro-Abortion politicians who voted for the war. Obama is Pro-Abortion, but he starts wars that I don't agree with, etc. That's what I mean when I say you are making a false dichotomy.
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I'm not going to debate on whether or not you are a Catholic. But since Pro-Life Protestants exist I agree with you that there are definitely people who are Pro-Life and who don't agree with all the teachings of the Catholic Church. But what I was saying is in general if a Catholic is Pro-Life they are probably also orthodox which means if you ask them they will tell you that they agree 100% with the teachings of the Church. When I say they "agree 100% with the teachings" I don't mean that they are always perfect. None of us is perfect. I agree 100% with the teachings of the Catholic Church, and I know I don't always live up to those teachings. But part of the teachings is that we have to acknowledge that we are sinners. That's why orthodox Catholics are more likely to know when they need to go to Confession.
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If 50% of Catholics use contraception in marriage and 50% are Pro-Life it doesn't mean that these two groups are the same 50% group of people. It could be two different groups of people.
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