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Save the women and children first, or er at least the children...
- Thread starter Autumnleaf
- Start date
Evacuation needs to be performed as quickly as possible. The age/gender priority is an outmoded concept and can actually cause more overall deaths. Disabled persons should never be given first priority because they can take significantly longer to evacuate. Those causing many other people to die.
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CounselorForChrist
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Wow, all this over who would you evacuate first? I say evacute everyone at the same time. Anyways, is a christian REALLY in a spot to say who gets to live and who gets to die? Such as saying saving the disabled last. That disabled person has a family too. While I understand the survival of the fittest thing, christians need to realize by making decisions like "Children first!", you are judging others and sentencing them at the same time. Does God say when he comes back he is taking the strongets and youngest first? No.
Now, with that said. I'm usually one of those people that might think the children first just because they have lives ahead of them...etc. But really people don't use logic. Just because you save child over lets say an 50 year old male whos single. This doesn't mean anything. A year later the child could die when crossing the street. We can die at anytime so the whole concept of the many outweigh the needs of the few is null and void I say.
Heck how about this. Maybe that older person you left to die deserved to live more. Why? Because they have survived this long in life. The child has only been around a few years. See, you can look at it any number of ways.
Thats simply from my christian point of view. All life is precious. So try to save everyone regadless. If not then your no better then the people who said no blacks on the bus in the 50s.
Statistics show that 90% of people during panic are like a deer in headlights. And out of those 90% I believe they said 60% of them will jist freeze in their place, even more in shock. Look at all the people on 9/11. Most just stood there frozen in place until they buildings came down.
So this means only 10% of people in a panic situation will ignore panicing and save themselves (and possibly others).
Now, with that said. I'm usually one of those people that might think the children first just because they have lives ahead of them...etc. But really people don't use logic. Just because you save child over lets say an 50 year old male whos single. This doesn't mean anything. A year later the child could die when crossing the street. We can die at anytime so the whole concept of the many outweigh the needs of the few is null and void I say.
Heck how about this. Maybe that older person you left to die deserved to live more. Why? Because they have survived this long in life. The child has only been around a few years. See, you can look at it any number of ways.
Thats simply from my christian point of view. All life is precious. So try to save everyone regadless. If not then your no better then the people who said no blacks on the bus in the 50s.
Remember that if you happen to become disabled and God forbid are ever in a burning building. Many would say they would gladly wait so that others can live. But we all know thats not true. Unless you are in that situation you have no idea what you would say/or do. Its like those who claim they can kill someone if they had too.
Statistics show that 90% of people during panic are like a deer in headlights. And out of those 90% I believe they said 60% of them will jist freeze in their place, even more in shock. Look at all the people on 9/11. Most just stood there frozen in place until they buildings came down.
So this means only 10% of people in a panic situation will ignore panicing and save themselves (and possibly others).
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- Nov 22, 2002
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There was (most likely) plenty of crew to make sure that the disabled were safely secured into lifeboats while other crew members secured other passengers. There is no reason (other than panic, disorder or stupidity) which should cause one person to die while making sure another lives. The crew is supposed to be trained for this and, not to debate the figures that xfreakazoidx is posting, but the crew, particularly the officers, are expected to be a part of that 10% and should act to maintain control accordingly.
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SithDoughnut
The Agnostic, Ignostic, Apatheistic Atheist
That we should indeed save women and children first
In a world with a population of over 7 billion, it doesn't matter when you're dealing with a few hundred people.
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As a pilot I can tell you about aviation. When an airliner needs to be evacuated there is no preference based on age or gender. If a person is disabled...they have to be dealt with last.
The reason is that 20 people could die in the time it takes to get the disabled person out. Also you notice adults are instructed to place masks and life jackets on first. Then they are to take care of children. Also a sound philosophy when you have only 90 seconds to completely evacuate.
The reason is that 20 people could die in the time it takes to get the disabled person out. Also you notice adults are instructed to place masks and life jackets on first. Then they are to take care of children. Also a sound philosophy when you have only 90 seconds to completely evacuate.
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All that being said...the evacuation order was given too late on that ship. Too much time was wasted. Also the crew seems to have been performing poorly.
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- Nov 22, 2002
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The crew does seem to have handled this very poorly, according to what I've read about with communication with rescue operations.
All that being said about the logical way to handle things, I would feel bad if I lived and children died, so I would wait unless I was in the way. With a plane, that may be a problem, but on a boat, there are plenty of ways to get out of the way of other people.
All that being said about the logical way to handle things, I would feel bad if I lived and children died, so I would wait unless I was in the way. With a plane, that may be a problem, but on a boat, there are plenty of ways to get out of the way of other people.
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CounselorForChrist
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I got a good question.
Lets say someone on here had a parent that was wheelchair bound and maybe had some mental issues. If a member of a crew told you they would evacuate your first, but your parents would ahve to wait. Would you just accept it and "hope" your parents makes it off? I wouldn't. I'd fight through the lines to get them off. Their life is just as important as anyone elses. You know we've become an corrupt country when we put values on peoples worth.
Lets say someone on here had a parent that was wheelchair bound and maybe had some mental issues. If a member of a crew told you they would evacuate your first, but your parents would ahve to wait. Would you just accept it and "hope" your parents makes it off? I wouldn't. I'd fight through the lines to get them off. Their life is just as important as anyone elses. You know we've become an corrupt country when we put values on peoples worth.
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- Nov 22, 2002
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In that position, I would tell them that I will wait until they get everyone else off. Spending the time arguing with someone who is merely trying to be efficient isn't going to help anyone. I'll stay out of the way and wait with my parents.
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CounselorForChrist
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Lets make the scenario more interesting. Lets say the ship your on is on fire. They tell you your parent(s) have to wait and could possibly die. DO you wait with them and burn to death? Or do you fight for your life and theirs? And by fight I don't mean phsysically, just as in making sure they get off.
I've told my fiance, I am the kind of guy that would take a bullet for her. So if she was to be "left behind" to die on a burning ship I'd try to get off her with regardless of what they said. Anyways, theres not much there going to do about it unless they are willing to kill you to stop you from getting ahead of the nondisabled. Although if they were armed I'd tell them "GO ahead and shoot me for trying to save my wife!". I doubt they would.
I can agree it would take up more time. Theres no doubting that. But like I said before, since when do people have certain values on their head. When I hear this stuff it reminds me of Hitler. Telling everyone who had value and who didn't.
What REALLY scares me is there are alot more people out there that have those views. If the goverment wanted to get rid of SSi and all that for the disabled, I've seen tons of people say that would be ok. Even if it meant the disabled died with no help. Some even said they would be fine with euthanizing the disabled and elderly. Sick.
And thats how it starts. You keep doing something a little bit at a time and eventually you grow numb to it and make terrible decisions. One last thing it reminds me of is that in some countries they do this stuff still. There was a an asian country where when a person reaches 60, they (the kids usually) take them to the top of a moutain and tie them to the ground and leave them there to die because they have outlived their usefullness.
At least some countries make the elderly the msot important people since they are considered the wisest. I guess it all on depends on where you live. I still think of what God would say in the end. He loves us all equally, so therefor we should be just like him and feel the same no matter what the world says someones value is.
I've told my fiance, I am the kind of guy that would take a bullet for her. So if she was to be "left behind" to die on a burning ship I'd try to get off her with regardless of what they said. Anyways, theres not much there going to do about it unless they are willing to kill you to stop you from getting ahead of the nondisabled. Although if they were armed I'd tell them "GO ahead and shoot me for trying to save my wife!". I doubt they would.
I can agree it would take up more time. Theres no doubting that. But like I said before, since when do people have certain values on their head. When I hear this stuff it reminds me of Hitler. Telling everyone who had value and who didn't.
What REALLY scares me is there are alot more people out there that have those views. If the goverment wanted to get rid of SSi and all that for the disabled, I've seen tons of people say that would be ok. Even if it meant the disabled died with no help. Some even said they would be fine with euthanizing the disabled and elderly. Sick.
And thats how it starts. You keep doing something a little bit at a time and eventually you grow numb to it and make terrible decisions. One last thing it reminds me of is that in some countries they do this stuff still. There was a an asian country where when a person reaches 60, they (the kids usually) take them to the top of a moutain and tie them to the ground and leave them there to die because they have outlived their usefullness.
At least some countries make the elderly the msot important people since they are considered the wisest. I guess it all on depends on where you live. I still think of what God would say in the end. He loves us all equally, so therefor we should be just like him and feel the same no matter what the world says someones value is.
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- Nov 22, 2002
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If the death is imminent, and by that I mean that we are mere minutes from escape or death, then I'm getting them off the ship one way or another. In my mind a battle of who is more important to me, my family wins. I'll deal with the consequences later.
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That incident was relatively controlled compared to many other sea disasters. Sometimes on-board fires can spread very rapidly. Large ships have gone down very rapidly. In which case the unwritten/unofficial rule of women and children first can cause much greater lose of life because people are waiting to see if all of the women and children got off first.
Women and children policy is not written in to maritime law. Also most if not all crews in the U.S. are not required to evacuate them first. Nor as Captain would I ever give such a command.
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k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe
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The Titanic took many hours to sink, so there was enough time for cultural norms to set in which dictated that women and children go first. If a ship is sinking and there is very limited time, it will most likely become a free for all because a person's first instinct is personal survival and saving their family.
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CounselorForChrist
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According to the special about it yesterday footage shows it barley controller really. People were fighting, shoving and over all confused. Which is mainly the captains fault since he "fell"" off and didn't give orders really to the crew. I think they should drop him off in Antartica in small boat then have it sink. Kidding of course....or am I?
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No, I believe in equality so having women get off first is not something I would agree with. If possible I would find a method that best approximates a random selection given the time constraints presented.
... After I get myself, my family, and my friends off first of course.
... After I get myself, my family, and my friends off first of course.
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CounselorForChrist
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Maybe it can be deicded by "Rocks, Paper, Sciccors". The captain will be the one everyone plays against. You walk up to him one at a time. If you win, you get to get off next. If you lose, you go to the back of the line?
What do you think? lol
What do you think? lol
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omanid
I'm not perfect; I'm forgiven.
Maybe it can be deicded by "Rocks, Paper, Sciccors". The captain will be the one everyone plays against. You walk up to him one at a time. If you win, you get to get off next. If you lose, you go to the back of the line?
What do you think? lol
An idea came into my head after reading this, of randomizing the list (before take off) of passengers (singles), as a precaution, and using that list as a determiner. I can imagine the possibility of less chaos...; People would have to wait to be called. I can see a bunch of things going wrong with that too, though.
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