Ascended Messiahs, Angels, Aliens & UFOs: How would Spirituality change if E.T came?

[Rick Otto]

OK, I have a confession to make. I'm an alien. I drove my Mark III flying saucer in from Proxima Centauri IV 6,700 years ago next Thursday. I'm a vastly superior being and My Powers Are Beyond Your Understanding. My real name is Brunobulax and I was an emperor on my home world.

So, everybody ready to worship me now? I mean, hey, what else do you need? You still holding out for me to do some magic or see my flying saucer, or what? What's it gonna take to get y'all to worship me?

The point here, of course, is that nobody with a functioning brain is gonna worship anyone even if they really did come from another planet and have cooler technology than we do. There's no reason why they should, and little or no evidence that any one group, faced with members of another group with dramatically superior technology, ever worshipped the high tech bunch. So why should we suppose that if space dudes show up that Joe Sixpack is gonna immediately feel the need to fall on his knees before Joe Alien? Ain't gonna happen.

You got a lot more faith in Joe 6Pack than me, Jipsah.

 

[Doublemint]

Glad to know you found some of them to be interesting...and of course, in investigating them, one doesn't have to believe them all. All of the ones given were simply discussing the issue of how things would be if alien life were real--and how the Atonement of CHrist as well as the Lord's role in creation is to impact our understanding of that.

Which ones did you investigate it, if I may ask?

I don't have 50 posts yet, so I cannot post links.
I like the Aliens in the Bible link ...

There is so much in it that I have concluded myself due to independent studying - very interesting.
Things like demonology, spirits, ghosts, levels of hell ...

Apparently that guy and I on the same wavelength so far.
I did not read yet concerning his views on aliens ...

I would read on (already saved a copy in my PC).

 

[Gxg (G²)]

OK, I have a confession to make. I'm an alien. I drove my Mark III flying saucer in from Proxima Centauri IV 6,700 years ago next Thursday. I'm a vastly superior being and My Powers Are Beyond Your Understanding. My real name is Brunobulax and I was an emperor on my home world.

So, everybody ready to worship me now? I mean, hey, what else do you need? You still holding out for me to do some magic or see my flying saucer, or what? What's it gonna take to get y'all to worship me?

The point here, of course, is that nobody with a functioning brain is gonna worship anyone even if they really did come from another planet and have cooler technology than we do. .


There's no reason why they should, and little or no evidence that any one group, faced with members of another group with dramatically superior technology, ever worshipped the high tech bunch. So why should we suppose that if space dudes show up that Joe Sixpack is gonna immediately feel the need to fall on his knees before Joe Alien? Ain't gonna happen

Would disagree to a certain degree---and the reason why is because it's not merely someone claiming to be something that causes others to worship them. What also tends to get people is a demonstration of power/signs and ability--the entire reason why many cults have been set up around certain personalities and those deemed to be false prophets/messiahs in the scritptures were able to come in/steal the affections and worship of others AWAY from Christ ( Matthew 24:10-12 /Matthew 24:23-25 / Matthew 24, Mark 13:21-23/ Mark 13, 2 Corinthians 11:12-14 /2 Corinthians 11 , 2 Peter 2:1-3 /2 Peter 2 , 1 John 4:1-3 / 1 John 4 , Revelation 19:19-21 / Revelation 19 ). The scriptures make very clear that people are more than ready and willing to worship others who're convincing enough...and for anyone studying what has occurred with what's known as New Age theology/thought, the amount of people into following spirit guides and deeming alien beings as the "saviors/creators of mankind" is not made up.

This is not something that is in any way new, by the way. If anyone recalls what occurred with the group known as Heaven's Gate (religious group), where they followed their leader (Marshall Herff Applewhite ) into committing mass suicide during 1997 in order to reach an alien space craft which they believed was following the Comet Hale-Bopp, which was at its brightest. Other groups with similar ideologies have been in existence for a long time when it comes to New Age worship of heavenly beings (as discussed here and here and here)---with it being very popular/something many today are following and see all the time in the media and bookstores---much of it in line with what the scriptures warn against when it comes to others worshipping heavenly beings ( Colossians 2:17-19 /Colossians 2 ) due to the glory they may possess.....and with worshipping, it doesn't have to be seeing something as "deity" in order to be worship since the issue is whatever takes your focus and what you celebrate.



And even within ancient history, the same mindset has been present. Anyone studying history will remember how the Aztecs themselves felt that the Spanish Conquistadors were "gods" when they came over looking in the same way as their mythology described their gods to be...in regards to their complexion (white) and the silver they brought over. And other instances were similar with conquering nations, especially those with new inventions such as guns/firearms whenever they'd fight against cultures less advanced....and not knowing what to make of such occurrences. There may be more skepticism with others if something similar happened with UFO occurrences, as much of what occurs today in many documentaries on the History Network (like on shows such as "Ancient Aliens"...) are geared at getting people to not even think of supernatural accounts in the Bible or mythology as "divine occurrences"---with people being trained instead to consider all "supernatural" accounts as being explainable via science/naturalism. This is something that I've seen directly with others, as there was one gentleman I grieve for since he used to be a very passionate believer in the Lord (from what I saw, as seen here)--but in time, he arrived at the conclusion that atheism was rational and that aliens were the ones who wrote the scriptures, with them not being able to even be trusted (as seen if one chooses to go here, here, here, here, here , here and here).


While it would not necessarily be the case that a UFO would not be automatically worshipped by all others as having "god-like" status, worship will occur...for the mindset of rationalism/naturalism would be worshipped by many since they'd easily say (as many already have) that what occurred is proof that there's a rational explanation for what has been deemed "supernatural" in history ...and that with Christianity itself/the scriptures, they would be put in the same category as simple encounters with alien beings who set it up. Essentially, it's a further development of the development of Secular Humanism (which by itself is a religion, as discussed here and here) which places man at the center and focuses solely upon the material, with the creation determininng its own destiny in glorifying itself (Romans 1:24-26 /Romans 1 )--and that is an act of worship in/of itself.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

When I was 4yrs old in the summer of 1959, my mom made me go to a birthday party for the three yr old neighbor boy. I was mad about being made to play with babies, but I went over there (next door)to make the best of it. While bored out of my skull in the sandbox, some kid came runnin' around the from the side of the house yellin' he saw a "spaceship" or "UFO", I'm not sure which, but I thought it was some make-believe non-semse, maybe the Indianapolis Speedway dirigible we were used to seeing. Instead what I saw did look like a dirigible, but it was huge, at least 10 times longer than the short fat one that would often enough fly right overhead.

Not only was it long & slender like a cigar, but it sat stock still - unnaturaly so - no wind wobble. I told JR to run inside & get his mom. One adult woman & about a dozen toddlers standin' on east 42nd st lookin' south toward the Indy skyline, watchin' this thing for at least a few minutes, confirming it too big to be the dirigible, & it begins to slowly move eastward, suddenly accelerating so fast it disappears within a half-mile.

I remember my mom not wanting to believe me when I told her. Hated that feeling.

At about 17, I was 30,000ft high riding south behind the wing of a commercial jet mid-morning looking down on the green pines & red clay of Georgia as a ball of light so bright it was spiky-brilliant, passed us slowly maybe 500 -1,000ft below us. I got excited & looked around the cabin to see whose attention I might direct, Everyone seemed to be moving in slow motion. By the time they figured out to look out the window & what for, it would pass. I thought to knock on the cabin door & ask the pilots if they saw it. I imagined them looking at me, then at each other, then back at me & saying, "We didn't see anything get back in your seat"

Wild to hear..

I

was 18 & living sort of on the streets in Berkely in the fall of '73. One night a guy who knew of my interest in UFOs came up to me & said he'd met a couple of extraterrestials on Telegraph avenue. He said he'd told them about me & were waiting to met me about 2 blocks away. Of course I was ready for some wise guys who wanted to tease a hippie kid, but as it turned out, it was two youngish looking people about my own age, totaly straight/preppy looking. They both wore white tennis shoes, white bobby socks, khaki shorts, white t-shirts & dark blue windbreakers, both riding ten-speed bicycles. They both had blue eyes & ash-blonde hair. The girl was cute but the guy was just plain, dorky, almost athletic, but no tone beyond his youth. Also anti-type or counter-intuitive as it may seem, he wore glasses & had a little spot of acne. She had shoulder length hair & his was crew-cut.


They both looked painfully square & sober.


My friend introduced us & left. I said hello & asked, "So you guys are aliens, huh?" They nodded. I said, You guys have obviously superior technology, why do you sneak around? Why don't you just come out, declare yourselves & start helping us out?" I was starting to get emotional at this point. The though of all the pain & suffering we are enduring while obviously superior technology could be serving us was too much.


The guy looked realy uncomfortablre like they weren't even supposed to be doing any of this, he was just indulging the girl's curiosity/adveturuosness. She got off her bike and took a step in my direction & pushed her face right up into mine saying. "I don't know why you have that attitude."

I wasn't ready for that. It spun my head & I started wondering if I wasn't understanding a tactical point, meanwhile the guy is saying, "We gotta go." She's getting back on her bike & off they went.


I just don't trust any of that.

Understandable..

And I've read & heard from abductees that mentioning Jesus puts a kabosh on their whole agenda. You start talking Jesus & they start walkin'.

It would be nice if we had space brothers to save our skins from a planetary melt-down, but from what I can see it would be a cure worse than the disease.
Better to go into the oven than deny Jesus. Move over Shaddrack

.Right there with ya...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Enoch tells us what the great delusion is, which Paul references as the lie they believe.

It does concern the stars, and men will take them to be gods, and worship them, because they rejected the truth and God gives them over. Happened before, and happens again. Enoch tells us about it.

Indeed, as the scriptures are clear that worship will be given by people to angelic beings who want to claim they are the gods who created the world. Of course, the scriptures are plain when it comes to discussion on "gods" thankfully. For Yeshua is the one who is central above all. For some excellent material on such, one can go here , here or here to the following:

• The Divine Council
  
  
  
• Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism: Toward an Assestment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible - The Divine Council

The Divine Council and Jewish Binitarianism 2/8 - YouTube​

There was actually another thread elsewhere seeking to discuss the subject in-depth, seen in the thread entitled Ye are gods..

Ancient Israel was for Monolatry rather than Monotheism as most assume...and that there was no problem with believing that other beings could either exist or be created similar to God in many aspects as long as it was recognized that the Lord was "Species Unique" when it came to his being above all things.


For more on the issue of where Heiser is coming from--especially on the subject of the Divine Council, As seen in what he said in his paper on "Monotheism" at his website on "The Divine Council" (for a brief excerpt):

How is one to reconcile Israel’s divine council with statements in the Hebrew Bible that “there is none beside” Yahweh? Such statements are taken by critical scholars as evidence that Israel had shed its polytheism, and by others as necessitating the strained interpretations noted above. Neither view can be sustained in light of the references to plural ) in Second Temple period Jewish texts (roughly 185 in the Qumran material alone; Heiser, “Divine Council,” 189-210) and the Jewish belief in “Two Powers” in heaven during that same period (Segal). Analysis of the Hebrew text demonstrates that several of the most common phrases in the Hebrew Bible allegedly used for denying the existence of other gods (e.g., Deut 4:35, 39; 32:12, 39) appear in passages that affirm the existence of other gods (Deut 4, 32). The result is that these phrases express the incomparability of Yahweh among the other ) not that the biblical writer contradicts himself, or that he is in the process of discovering monotheism. The situation is the same in Isaiah 40-66. Isaiah 40:1-8 is familiar to scholars (via the plural imperatives in 40:1-2) as a divine council text (Cross, Seitz). Isaiah 40:22-26 affirms the ancient Israelite worldview that described heavenly beings with heavenly host terminology (Heiser, “Divine Council,” 114-118). That Isaiah’s “denial statements” should be understood as statements of incomparability, not as rejections of the existence of other gods, is made clear in Isaiah 47:8, 10, where Babylon boldly claims, “I am, and there is none else beside me.” The claim is not that Babylon is the only city in the world, but that she has no rival.
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Some would argue that the descriptions of a divine council are merely metaphoric. Metaphoric language, however, is not based on what a writer&#8217;s view of reality excludes. Rather, the metaphor is a means of framing and categorizing something that is part of a writer&#8217;s worldview. When the biblical writer asserts, &#8220;Who is like you, O Lord, among the gods (Deut 10:17; Ex 15:11)?&#8221; these statements reflect a sincere belief and are neither dishonest nor hollow. Comparing Yahweh to the ancient equivalent of an imaginary or fictional character cheapens the praise. The Psalms contain many exclamations of the incomparability of Yahweh to the other gods (Ps 86:8, 95:3; 96:4; 135:5; 136:2). David (Ps 138:1) proclaims that he will sing the praise of the God of Israel &#8220;before the gods&#8221; (neged )e5lo4h|<m), a declaration that makes little sense if lesser )e4lo4h|<m did not exist.
3.


.....So what should we make of the Hebrew Bible&#8217;s affirmation of the existence of other gods? Does this mean that we have to surrender the view that Israel&#8217;s religion was monotheistic? The short answer is &#8220;No, but we ought to avoid using a 17th century term to describe an ancient Semitic worldview.&#8221; When scholars have addressed this tension, terms like &#8220;inclusive monotheism&#8221; or &#8220;tolerant monolatry&#8221; have been coined in an attempt to accurately classify Israelite religion in both pre- and post-exilic stages. These terms have not found acceptance among many scholars. The frustration over nomenclature is due to the fact that &#8220;monotheism&#8221; is a modern term, appropriated and popularized by deists during the Enlightenment, applied to the ancient Israelite belief system. Other scholars have argued for an &#8220;incipient monotheism&#8221; that could perhaps include the affirmation of other gods who were inferior.


There is precedent for this idea in the scholarly exchanges over henotheism, monolatry, and Israelite religion. Historically, henotheism assumes all gods are species equals and the elevation of one god is due to socio-political factors&#8212;not theological nuancing. Quoting Max Müller&#8217;s seminal work on the subject, M. Yusa writes that henotheism was a technical term coined &#8220;to designate a peculiar form of polytheism . . . [where] each god is, &#8216;at the time a real divinity, supreme and absolute&#8217; not limited by the powers of any other gods.&#8221; Müller called this idea &#8220;belief in single gods . . . a worship of one god after another.&#8221;T. J. Meek referred to pre-exilic Israelite religion as both henotheistic and monolatrous, thereby equating the two, based on the prohibition of worshipping other gods. H. H. Rowley, reacting to the work of Meek, moved toward the idea of uniqueness. What distinguished Mosaic religion in his mind from that of other &#8220;henotheists&#8221; was &#8220;not so much the teaching that Yahweh was to be the only God for Israel as the proclamation that Yahweh was unique.&#8221;



I would suggest that we frame the issue a bit differently. That is, we should stop trying to define Israel&#8217;s religion with inaccurate terms and instead describe what Israel believed. Rowley is on the right track, but isn&#8217;t specific enough. &#8220;Monotheism&#8221; as it is currently understood means that no other gods exist. This term is inadequate for describing Israelite religion, but suggesting it be done away with would no doubt make people nervous. &#8220;Henotheism&#8221; and &#8220;monolatry,&#8221; while more precise, are inadequate because they just don&#8217;t say enough. Israel was certainly &#8220;monolatrous,&#8221; but that term comments only on what Israel believed about the proper object of worship, not what it believed about Yahweh with respect to the other gods. Israel did not believe the gods were species-equal with Yahweh and essentially interchangeable. Israel did not believe that Yahweh should be viewed as the supreme god only because of his deeds on behalf of Israel. Yahweh was the creator of the other gods and in a class by Himself.


My own view is that Israel believed in the existence of other gods, but that Yahweh was &#8220;species unique.&#8221; That is, Yahweh was an elohim, but no other elohim was Yahweh&#8212;and never was nor could be. Yahweh was ontologically superior to and distinct from all the other gods. As Isaiah 43:10 and 44:6-8 affirm, Yahweh alone is pre-existent and uncreated. He in fact created all the divine members of the heavenly host. Their life derives from him, not vice versa. By virtue of His ontological superiority, Yahweh alone is sovereign and thus deserving of worship. Interestingly, species uniqueness is the basis for God&#8217;s distinction from the other gods in later Jewish writers.


One could object that the idea of &#8220;species uniqueness&#8221; is unintelligible with respect to divine beings, perhaps by analogy to the human world. I am human, yet no other human is me, but all humans share the same species status. Hence one can be unique in properties, but species uniqueness is a fallacy. The analogy with humankind is flawed, however, since no such claim as pre-existence before all humans is seriously offered. An attribute shared by no other member in the species makes for species uniqueness


...............

The plural elohim / ha-elohim
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Psalm 86:8 - Among the gods there is none like you, O Yahweh; neither [are there any works] like your works.


Psalm 95:3 - For Yahweh is a great God, and a great King above all gods.


Psalm 96:4 - For Yahweh is great, and deserving of exceedingly great praise: he is to be feared above all gods.


Psalm 97:7 - All who served images were put to shame; those who boasted in mere idols; even all the gods bow down before him [Yahweh, see v. 5 preceding]


Psalm 97:9 - For you, O Yahweh, are Most High above all the earth: you are exalted far above all gods.


Psalm 135:5 - For I know that Yahweh is great, and that our lord is above all gods.


Psalm 136:2 - O give thanks to the God of gods: for his mercy endures for ever.


Psalm 138:1 - I will praise you with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise to you.


The plural elim


Exodus 15:11 &#8211; Who is like you, O Yahweh, among the gods? Who is like you, majestic in holiness, awesome in splendor, doing wonders?9


Psalm 58:1 - Do you indeed decree what is right, O gods? Do you judge people fairly?10



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It is common for those who resist the face-value meaning of the text of Psalm 82:1, 6 to argue at this point that such references to other gods are actually references to idols, or that they are figurative expressions&#8212;that Israelites didn&#8217;t really believe such beings exist. The first objection is discussed in detail in the next chapter. For now take another look at Psalm 97:7 in the above list. It clearly distinguishes the gods from idols. The psalmist mocks the people who bow down to idols, and adds that even the gods who the idols represent bow down to Yahweh! The second objection is best addressed here.



Those who want to argue that these references to other gods cannot be taken as reflecting what Israelites really believed don&#8217;t realize how that objection does injustice to both the biblical text and the God of Israel. What I mean here is that, if the above verses are not conveying factual information relative to biblical theology, then God&#8217;s superiority is a mockery.


For example, if Moses is comparing Yahweh to beings that don&#8217;t exist, how is Yahweh glorified. To have Moses &#8220;really&#8221; saying &#8220;Who is like you, O Yahweh, among the beings that aren&#8217;t real&#8221; is to judge God&#8217;s greatness by nothing. We&#8217;re greater than something that doesn&#8217;t exist! So is a microbe. This view unintentionally brings God down quite a few notches, to say nothing of the deception involved on Moses&#8217; part&#8212;and even God&#8217;s since he inspired the words. Saying &#8220;among the beings that we all know don&#8217;t exist there is none like Yahweh&#8221; is tantamount to comparing Yahweh with Mickey Mouse, Spiderman, or some fictional literary figure. This reduces praise to a snicker. It also makes the writer somewhat mentally unbalanced.

He sings Yahweh&#8217;s praise before beings he really believes aren&#8217;t there? He commands the same imaginary beings to worship Yahweh (Psa. 29:1)? Worse yet, Yahweh presides over a council of beings that don&#8217;t exist? Why would the Holy Spirit inspire such nonsense?




​

And stars are angels, in the Tenach and in the NT, and in Enoch, and stars are good and bad, in the Word.

Indeed. However, none of that has been disagreed with.

there are no other so called creations than this one.

Disagree, as the scriptures never assert that. What it does make clear is that there are those of us who are humans and then there's the angelic realm. Even for those groups that actually support the Book of Enoch, as does the Ethopian Orthodox Church and others within Orthodoxy today, there's not a universal view that other lifeforms were not within the view of creation--and none of that would go counter to what the scriptures declare about our own creation. One can go here to #17 & #44 for more..

Earth was created before the heavens were stretched out, on day 2, and before the sun, moon, and stars were made, on day 4.

Yep..though again, none of that has anything really to do with other lifeforms being created outside of angels/humans.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I don't have 50 posts yet, so I cannot post links.

I like the Aliens in the Bible link ...

There is so much in it that I have concluded myself due to independent studying - very interesting.

Things like demonology, spirits, ghosts, levels of hell ...

Apparently that guy and I on the same wavelength so far.
I

Cool to know

I did not read yet concerning his views on aliens ...

I would read on (already saved a copy in my PC).

When you get the chance, let me know what it is that you think....

 

[Rick Otto]

If you find yourself around aliens look & see if they have a book called "How to Serve Humanity". Open it up & make sure it isn't a book of recipes.
lol

 

[Optimax]

"Once mankind accepted a simple truth," the movie states, "we are not alone in this universe." The quote carries a double meaning here, both in the idea that there are aliens out there, but also, as the aliens are Norse "gods," that there is God out there too. It's a clever line, for it sets up a recurring theme of the clash between believing in the supernatural and our more modern, "scientific" insistence on only accepting the natural, empirically provable as truth. Along those lines, one of the women in the film quotes, "Magic is just science we don't understand yet." Thor later explains, "Your ancestors called it magic. You call it science. I come from a place where they are one and the same." Is she right? Or are there things naturalist "science" can't explain?

"A simple truth"?

The word of God is truth as Jesus said. He spoke about being born again, how to live a godly life and taught spiritual princples.

There is no truth to this "alien" concept, unless one considers the devil and his bunch as the aliens.

Their future is not very bright as they wind up in a very uncomfortable lake.

Yes, the whole idea of what is being discussed in this thread as a possible reality is a very foolish question.

When "MOVIES" are used as some type of "proof"!

You do realize movies are made with a script and therefore can turn out the way the writers intend, regardless of reality.

 

[Rick Otto]

"A simple truth"?

The word of God is truth as Jesus said. He spoke about being born again, how to live a godly life and taught spiritual princples.

There is no truth to this "alien" concept, unless one considers the devil and his bunch as the aliens.

Their future is not very bright as they wind up in a very uncomfortable lake.

Yes, the whole idea of what is being discussed in this thread as a possible reality is a very foolish question.

When "MOVIES" are used as some type of "proof"!

You do realize movies are made with a script and therefore can turn out the way the writers intend, regardless of reality.

Have some respect.
Had you been paying attention you would see that we all qualify under your exception:"unless one considers the devil and his bunch as the aliens."
Perhaps with that in mind you can reconsider dumping the label "foolish" on our discussion.
Movies are indeed some kind of proof even if only that scriptwriting exists.
Seeing as how scripture's prophecy provides us with a script for the future, discussing it seems less foolish than a dismissively biased, first glance might provide.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

"A simple truth"?

The word of God is truth as Jesus said. He spoke about being born again, how to live a godly life and taught spiritual princples.
.

Indeed..

There is no truth to this "alien" concept, unless one considers the devil and his bunch as the aliens. Their future is not very bright as they wind up in a very uncomfortable lake.

That has no basis in the Word or the Scriptures (or Church tradition, however). Of course, it's logical to say that the angelic/demonic do qualify distinctly as another class of beings and are able to interact with our realm of existence---as I explictly discussed in detail here in #3.

Nonetheless, the scriptures never speak against the fact that the Lord was able to make creations outside of man. Wonderful men of God/defenders of the faith, such as C.S Lewis (author of "Mere Christianity" and "Chronicles of Narnia" ), spoke in depth about it in C.S. Lewis&#8217; Space Trilogy book. And ultimately, whether they're aliens or not (be it in this life or in the life to come when the Lord makes other creations), there's nothing against the Supremacy of Christ that is in any way threatened by that. There were references given out earlier by other prominent scholars/theologians ( #4 ) that actually addressed most of the things you tried to give in the attempt at dismissal--and for some ones to investigate, one can check out this study article entitled --"Christ and Extraterrestrial Life - Michael Heisner" ( )

Or they can see the following:

AOD 2005 -Michael Heiser -The Sons of God, Daughters, Nephilim, UFOs

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With that said, if your worldview is one where only the devil/his angels would be aliens, it'd be upon you to show where this is Biblically consistent...and it'd be upon you to show where the Word of God absolutely shows that it's impossible for the Lord to not have created life outside of our own here on Earth. Thus far, you've done neither and have only taken the time to say "foolish" to that which you disagree with---and that's ironic, IMHO, since it's rather foolish to make a claim with no verification or willingness to defend their claim. Anyone can assert that they don't like something---but taking the time to really listen/give informed thought is another.

Yes, the whole idea of what is being discussed in this thread as a possible reality is a very foolish question.

Only when one foolishly assumes that there is no such thing as alien life----nor really interacts with others who are unsaved/wishing to have informed answers---is one able to label "foolish" what they disagree with. And it is a poor repsonse on your part, IMHO, in light of how much the scriptures discuss a host of realities with certain things and seeing what has actually occurred throughout history.

When "MOVIES" are used as some type of "proof"!

You do realize movies are made with a script and therefore can turn out the way the writers intend, regardless of reality

Who said movies were "proof" in any way of all things occurring in reality? To say I said such would be taking what I said WAY out of context when it came to the film reference....for what was said was how movies can be utilized to illustrate things that those in the world are thinking today and give opportunities for believers to actually give Biblically informed answers. Within the realm of THIS conversation, as well as what the OP discusses with the movie "Knowing" referenced, the discussion was centered about reviewing what people in the secular world may believe---with it being the case that many are open to the thought that realitiy was shaped by alien life---and there is a need for believers to get involved/engaged beyond a mere claim of "That's foolish!!!!!" as you did

As the people from "Boundless Webzine" said best in their review:

As C.S. Lewis sarcastically wrote:

Avoid silence, avoid solitude, avoid any train of thought that leads off the beaten track. Concentrate on money, sex, status, health and (above all) on your own grievances. Keep the radio on. Live in a crowd. Use plenty of sedation. If you must read books, select them very carefully. But you'd be safer to stick to the papers. You'll find the advertisements helpful; especially those with a sexy or a snobbish appeal. (Christian Reflections, pp. 168-169)

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The Christian community must do a better job of showing people how to ask the questions that make a person media literate. If we are indeed the "royal priesthood" that we are described as, then our job description includes the command of Ezekiel 44:23, "They are to teach my people the difference between the holy and the common and show them how to distinguish between the unclean and the clean."

We must live not as passive sponges but as mindful agents. As Bill Romanowski (author and Calvin College professor) says, "There's some good stuff out there and lots of bad stuff and, if people are going to live as mature Christians, they're going to have to learn to tell the difference."

Every book has a perspective. Every TV show was written, directed and produced by people with perspectives and worldviews. Every article of every magazine that sits on the shelves of our local bookstore or airport gift shop has a perspective. And yes, every movie that hits the silver screen has a worldview driving it.

Our call is not to abandon the media, but to make ourselves "priests" of the culture and help our brothers and sisters in Christ understand that "it's never just a movie."
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As it concerns the issue of movies/media simply speaking on things the culture is doing and seeking to use that as spring-boards for Biblical discussions, this is not something that's not being practiced in the church today with good results. There's an excellent program called "Movie Nights" by Focus on the Family where the movie summaries are placed up, with comparisions/contrasts to Scripture & discussion as to how it relates to one&#8217;s life.

​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Have some respect. Had you been paying attention you would see that we all qualify under your exception:"unless one considers the devil and his bunch as the aliens."

Perhaps with that in mind you can reconsider dumping the label "foolish" on our discussion..

Indeed--and on the issue, it was already noted earlier in the earlier part of the thread (in #3 )where it's possible that Torah defines those deemed to be "aliens" as angels/demons. Obvious is the fact that the individual didn't really read carefully...but on what you noted, I wouldn't expect much change on their part. Of course, it'd be respectful to either leave the thread alone if they have nothing constructive to say....or to simply engage the actual material/resources referenced by many Christian Scholars/theologians. To do neither of those would be to it derail discussion.

Movies are indeed some kind of proof even if only that scriptwriting exists.\
Seeing as how scripture's prophecy provides us with a script for the future, discussing it seems less foolish than a dismissively biased, first glance might provide

Agreed.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

If you find yourself around aliens look & see if they have a book called "How to Serve Humanity". Open it up & make sure it isn't a book of recipes.
lol

That is hilarious, Bruh I remember that episode from "Twilight Zone" and it always freaked me out. But of course, if there was life out there that tried to do such, fight back and don't go out soft

On a side note, if interested, here's something I think you'd be interested in:

• A HISTORY OF THE EXTRATERRESTRIAL LIFE DEBATE by ...
• Is the Idea of Intelligent Extraterrestrial Life Compatible with Judaism and Christianity? ...

 

[WingsLikeEagles]

I think that the evidence strongly suggests that "alien" encounters are really just encounters with evil angels and demons. When reading the accounts, one comes away with that strong impression. There are also a few accounts where Biblical Christians have been confronted with such "beings" and have rebuked them. The "beings" in those few instances have immediately disappeared. There is an evangelical Christian (don't remember his name at the moment) who goes around giving lectures to churches and Christian groups about his investigations into "UFO abduction" claims and he builds a very compelling case that these are evil visitations. The fact that these visitations have increased radically since the rebirth of the nation of Israel in 1948 suggests that this type of demonic activity is increasing because the devil knows that his time is short--just as it predicts in the Book of Revelation. He would, no doubt, love to lead the world astray with such a delusion as "alien" visitation. Perhaps this IS the great deception that will overcome all of the lost in the last days.

 

[Rick Otto]

I think it is only one side of the deception.
There is one already here in hidden in plain sight as large and pernicious as the "necessary evil" of government.
At any rate, I know of two individuals one of whom was abducted & was cured of chronic constipation, & given the "space brother" jive.
The other was frightened by their vouces, presence & the accompanying paralysis & reflexively started praying to Jesus. They left.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I think that the evidence strongly suggests that "alien" encounters are really just encounters with evil angels and demons. .

There's indeed alot of reason to possibly consider that--especially if the end result is to think less of the DIVINITY/Work of Christ and naturalize it to where it seems artifical. Whenever people have become so obsessed with E.T that they look to them for salvation, one can know that they've come across what Paul warned against when he said the Last Days would have people following decieving spirits ( 1 Timothy 4:1-3 / 1 Timothy 4 ). Within the scriptures, the angelic are described in very beautiful/astounding ways, with the temptation to worship them being very present ( Revelation 22:1-8 ) due to the abilities that they had as being messengers of fire/supernatural creatures. One can go here for more....as well as here /here when reading of the ways angels operated.

There is reason the Word discusses how such creatures are not to be worshipped---but neither are people to be flippant toward them---and in either worshipping them or being dismissive, there's danger:

2 Peter 2:9-11 2 Peter 2
Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings; 11 yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not heap abuse on such beings when bringing
judgment on them from the Lord.

Jude 1:7-9 / Jude 1
In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings. 9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”[a
​

​

When reading the accounts, one comes away with that strong impression.

Alot of them, with the abduction accounts, appear akin to demonic possession and manipulation. Amazingly enough, most of the accounts are now being dramatized blantantely as seeming akin to demonic---if seeing films such as "The Fourth Kind" where things like possession/losing abilities to control oneself when being taken over by alien prescences are prominent. At one point, much of that would be labeled as being within the realm of the Occult/Satanism---but now it is being increasingly shown to be the work of Exterrestial.

Something else interesting to consider is how many accounts of alien encounters have often involved abductees smelling sulfer during the encounter..

There are also a few accounts where Biblical Christians have been confronted with such "beings" and have rebuked them. The "beings" in those few instances have immediately disappeared. There is an evangelical Christian (don't remember his name at the moment) who goes around giving lectures to churches and Christian groups about his investigations into "UFO abduction" claims and he builds a very compelling case that these are evil visitations.

If I recall, some of them were brought up in another discussion you and I were involved in elsewhere on another forum when the subject of UFO/Angels was brought up (as seen here ). I think that the person you have in mind is known as Chuck Missler. Checked out his material before--and for reference:

• Topical Bible Study: Aliens/Nephilim - Koinonia Housejavascript:void(0)
  
  
  
• Alien Encounters - A Christian Perspective - Koinonia Housejavascript:void(0)

Chuck MIssler on Nephilim and UFO's in the Bible
Chuck Missler - Biblical UFO's and the Coming Deception

​

And for others, scholars such as Michael Heiser have been amazing in the work they do when it comes to actually seeking to engage society with their claims of "alien" intervention in history (as seen here )---and scientists such as Hugh Ross (a Old Earth/Progressive Creationist) have been a big blessing in discussing some of the spiritual issues when it comes to how many accounts of alien encounters involved demonic activity or denial of the Divinity of Christ---as seen here and here in UFOs & Extraterrestrials - Reasons to Believe
​

Scott Johnson is another to consider:

​

Preparation for the Alien UFO Deception in High Gear Pt 1 : Scott Johnson
Preparation for the Alien UFO Deception in High Gear Pt 2 : Scott Johnson
Preparation for the Alien UFO Deception in High Gear Pt 3: Scott Johnson
Preparation for the Alien UFO Deception in High Gear Pt 4: Scott Johnson ​

The fact that these visitations have increased radically since the rebirth of the nation of Israel in 1948 suggests that this type of demonic activity is increasing because the devil knows that his time is short--just as it predicts in the Book of Revelation. He would, no doubt, love to lead the world astray with such a delusion as "alien" visitation. Perhaps this IS the great deception that will overcome all of the lost in the last days

Although I'm not of the mindset that the Nation of Israel is a significant factor in the increase of demonic activity due to certain issues, I definately agree with you that there is an aspect of the demonic behind it when considering how much focus can go upon it/lead others astray.

​

2 Thess 2:9-12
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
​

I've always thought that the issue of "signs/wonders" (including things like the false prophet in Revelation 19:19-21 / Revelation 19 ) would make more sense at decieving if seeing it played out where others felt radical technological advancements were astounding...with those beings "sharing" their technology/gifts to the world and causing others to feel that those deemed to be "benevolent visitors" should be trusted---with those beings having more room to possibly say "We were really the ones who came/helped your planet evolve over time." In many ways, in that scenario, nothing short of civil war all over....


Within the world of Christendom, all of those who were religious/zealous would be divided into 2 camps:
​

• The False Church, who'd go along with it and zealously worship those beings in adoration​

​

• The True Church, that would be persecuted eventually with derision and outright desturction due to saying it was demonic...and being seen as hindering the advancement of humanity by not wanting to work with the visitors​

There could also be those who see the entire event and choose to trust neither believers or those working with visitors, as their stance is not trusting anything big-government or what they deem to be a conspiracy. Although they'd still be lost since their hope was not in Yeshua alone..

The persecution that would occur against any/all who believe would be crazy due to the superior technology (as well as experimentation occuriing like it was in the Book of Enoch when the Watchers/other angels wrongly experimented with men and produced an entire world of evil in the hybrids they came up with)---and with both the unsaved/saved being taken out, the glorious appearing of Christ the Savior would be even more exciting to see.

But again, that's just one possible scenario that could play out---as some see the End Times/Last Days scenario to be played out as either having a dominant religion take over like Islam or saying that mankind will self-destruct due to his own actions and carelessness.


If there are indeed alien lifeforms out there, of course I'm not going to automatically become hostile toward them--but discernment must be ready at all times. For myself, the ultimate issue is whether they not only acknowledge Yeshua as the ONLY way to salvation---but that they actively wish to worship Him. Anything saying he was really "alien" or that He is not who He says He was is a red flag.
​

​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I think that the evidence strongly suggests that "alien" encounters are really just encounters with evil angels and demons. When reading the accounts, one comes away with that strong impression. There are also a few accounts where Biblical Christians have been confronted with such "beings" and have rebuked them. The "beings" in those few instances have immediately disappeared. There is an evangelical Christian (don't remember his name at the moment) who goes around giving lectures to churches and Christian groups about his investigations into "UFO abduction" claims and he builds a very compelling case that these are evil visitations. The fact that these visitations have increased radically since the rebirth of the nation of Israel in 1948 suggests that this type of demonic activity is increasing because the devil knows that his time is short--just as it predicts in the Book of Revelation. He would, no doubt, love to lead the world astray with such a delusion as "alien" visitation. Perhaps this IS the great deception that will overcome all of the lost in the last days.

If you've never heard of it, I think one read that you'd find fascinating is entitled The Facade. It's by Michael Heiser. The book is a supernatural, contemporary fiction, thriller about the theological implications of UFO's and extraterrestrial life. For more, one can go here/here and here. Very excellent read, as he constructs the theme of "as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the end" ( tthew 24:36-38 , Luke 17:25-27 /Luke 17 ) in a wild way...

Heiser maintains an active ministry that reaches out to those whose "worldview is molded by occult, paranormal, and esoteric beliefs". And with exterrestial life, although, Heiser considers it unlikely that the universe is populated, he is open to this idea as well. He has worked towards explaining how extraterrestrial life, in the event such is discovered, can be reconciled with the Bible and Judaeo-Christian theology.

Can the Christian Worldview Accommodate an Intelligent ET Reality? - Dr. Michael Heiser​

I really do appreciate the work Heiser has sought to do over the years, addressing the controverisal issues that many seem unwilling to tackle. According to his employer, Logos Bible Software, "He [Heiser] observed that many who have adopted &#8220;alternative&#8221; worldviews were formerly traditional theists and Christians who left the faith when their questions on difficult passages and topics went unanswered, or when spiritual leaders failed to address experiences they had had. Mike seeks to fill these gaps as a Christian scholar and has become well known in these circles through writing, speaking, and numerous radio appearances." The fact that he is even willing to talk with other unbelievers going to the Sci-Fi conventions and talk with them is something I salute him for...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I think it is only one side of the deception.

There is one already here in hidden in plain sight as large and pernicious as the "necessary evil" of government..

Alot of deception is occurring, with it being layers upon layers to ensure the maximum amount of people lost.

At any rate, I know of two individuals one of whom was abducted & was cured of chronic constipation, & given the "space brother" jive.


The other was frightened by their vouces, presence & the accompanying paralysis & reflexively started praying to Jesus. They left

There's truly POWER in the name of Jesus

Acts 2:21
And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.&#8217;
Acts 2:20-22


Acts 2:38
Peter replied, &#8220;Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:37-39

Acts 4:12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.&#8221;
Acts 4:11-13 / Acts 4

Romans 10:13
for, &#8220;Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.&#8221;
Romans 10:12-14
​

Philippians 2:9-11
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
​

 

[Optimax]

Foolishness!

I did not say it!

Scripture did.

However, I do agree with scripture!

 

[Rick Otto]

Thanks for sharin' all them links & videos.
I don't exactly dwell on the topic anymore. but I do try to keep current.
Whole lotta homework done on this, & it ain't foolishness once it happens to you or a loved one.
Wouldn't wish it on anyone.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Foolishness!

I did not say it!

Scripture did.

However, I do agree with scripture

Scripture actually says those who speak without listening, getting all the facts or speak in haste are those who are foolish (Proverbs 18:13, Proverbs 18:15, Proverbs 18:17)--and as it concerns the scripture you tried to utilize, it was error to do so since the context was radically different than what you trying to convey since that is about being DIVISIVE within a fellowship over matters pertaining to the LAW. Anyone can quip "Foolish" but that doesn't give a scriptural argument, nor does it show where they are Biblically accurate. When it comes to discussing issues in regards to evangelism amongst the Lost or discussing current events/seeing where they may line up with scripture, it's never "foolish."

Proverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings.
Proverbs 25:1-3​

Prayerfully, you'll be able to do better next time when it comes to properly applying scripture to a discussion you may disagree with. Till then, if you do not plan on actually addressing what was said in the OP or scripture presented on the matter, it is asked that you simply NOT participate. To do otherwise is disrespectful to the intent of the OP...and if you really feel something isn't wise to discuss, there's no real reason for even being a participant involved.