What Does God Say On Suicide?

[iambren]

"I would recommend finding them help locally. Speak with a preist, doctor, police. anyone you can think of."


AMEN! If you are convinced that a person holds a real danger to themselves then it behooves you to step in somehow. If a mugger had a gun to their head wouldn't you feel a need to call the cops to stop it?


Five years ago this actually happened to me. I had a psychiatric drug misfire, then a life-threatening event etc (a life "perfect storm") where I became depressed,anxious, and suicidal. A doctor colleague called anonymously into a rehab center, they called me in, explained the risks(as I CRIED), and admitted me to a hospital for a week. Saved my life and I've been fine since then. So check out your friend but ACT prudently.

 

[parsley]

Because what I think what your saying is that suicide is not a sin?

Can you please clarify, or provide other scripture.

I think it is a sin to commit suicide.

An important addition to the conversation, then, is forgiveness. Do we go to hell if we have lied to our firing squad? If we are falling off a cliff and feeling jealous of those who are leaning over the edge watching, does our sin condemn us?

Of course not. Salvation is not dependent on our works -- the price was paid by Jesus once, for all. By faith are ye saved, through God's grace.

Sin has clear consequences, and is still frowned upon by God... He set many standards in place. But our invitation to Heaven is not rescinded.

 

[Criada]

Sometimes a person is feeling so hopeless that Bible verses and the fear of hell won't stop them from wanting to take their own life. If your friend is at that point, please let the authorities know - she will need professional help to get through this time. She may be angry with you, but one day she will be grateful.

Praying for her, and for you

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Sorry TruthSeeker2012, I don't entirely agree with your thoughts. Your post is leaving an uneasy feeling on me, because what I think what your saying is that suicide is not a sin?

..

I never said suicide is OK and not a sin, but we all sin and sinners will still be saved, and allowed entrance into heaven, that's my point.

There will be many people in heaven who had committed suicide, e.g Samson, Judas, and many other Christians who could not take it anymore and committed suicide, yet by grace, they will be in heaven.

ALL SIN are covered by the blood of Jesus, and that includes the suicide sin.

The Scripture says there is ONLY ONE SIN which can never be forgiven, and that's the eternal sin of contributing the work of the Holy Spirit to an evil spirit. Read about it in Mark chapter 3. ALL OTHER SIN, including suicide sin, is covered by the blood of the Lamb.

And remember, James said if you stumble in a single point, you are guilty of breaking the WHOLE LAW, so in reality, you are guilty of committing ALL SIN, yet by the grace of God we can be forgiven and saved.

Many people on their deathbed or end of their life commit SIN, because we are all SINNERS, so having committed the suicide sin at the end of your life, is no different to committing other sins as a sinner at the end of your life. There has never been a single case of a sinner becoming perfectly sinless at the end of their lives. NOBODY will become PERFECTLY SINLESS and then die.

So be careful, don't be too quick to judge and condemn people who had committed suicide.

And I repeat, just in case you decide to misrepresent me again.. I DO NOT BELIEVE ANYONE SHOULD TAKE THEIR OWN LIFE, but all I am saying is that many have, and will still be saved and in heaven.

God bless.

 

[LovintheLord74]

Hard to repent when you are dead. You cannot ask for forgiveness at that point, so i do not see how that would work. I do not think suicide would ever be in gods plan for anyone. Even if in the scripture, you can find a way to make it be ok for some, I would say we sghould stick with telling people that its not ok.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Hard to repent when you are dead. You cannot ask for forgiveness at that point, so i do not see how that would work. ...

All saved Christians died a SINNER and not a single one died perfectly sinless. So your reasoning is not only anti-biblical, it's flawed. Every single saved Christian who has died, died with sins in their life and never perfectly repented of all their sins. Are you saying they were all lost?

And what are your thoughts about Samson? He was like a "terrorist suicide bomber", and fulfilled God's plan. Samson knew he would die, that was a type of suicide. Would you dare accuse Samson of being lost?

But as I have said earlier, I do not recommend suicide and I do not support it, but God knows everyone's hearts and hurts, and God understands the hearts of many who can no longer take this life and only desire to go home to be with Father God.

And let me explain something to you, you are not saved by continuously asking God to forgive you, for then you would be saved by WORKS not grace.

Hebrews 9:22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

So that means it's not possible to be forgiven and saved with anything outside trust in the blood of Jesus at Calvary that was shed for our sins. Nothing we do can forgive us our sins and save us, only Jesus' shed blood.

Paul wrote about two-thirds of the New Testament. Now, if confession of sin in order to be forgiven and to be right with God is so important to the believer, then Paul has done us a great injustice by not mentioning it in his letters to us, the church.

But you will never find Paul teaching that to the Church. Confession of sin to be made righteousness appears only once in 1 John 1:9, and it is addressed to non-believers.

The clue is in the verse before 9, and the preceding verse itself gives the answer.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Will a Christian say that he has "no sin"? NO!! Only an unbeliever may say that!

In the first place, a person became a Christian by acknowledging before God that he was a sinner in need of the Saviour. Furthermore, most Christians today are so sin-conscious, rather than righteous-conscious. In fact, some Christians still call themselves, as well as fellow Christians, sinners!

Obviously, the verse is not for Christians, but for non-believers who say that they have no sin. John tells such people that they are deceiving themselves. But he also assures them that if they acknowledge that they are sinners, then there is a way out for them -- if they confess their sinfulness to God, God is faithful and just to Christ and His finished work, and will forgive them and wash away all their sins, and make them righteous forever by the blood of His Son.

Another clue as to why this verse is not for the Christian is the phrase, "the truth is not in us". Christians have the Spirit of truth, which is the Holy Spirit, in them. Non-believers don't.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you [after Pentecost].

However, having said all that, it's healthy for the Christian to ask for forgiveness and that's why the Lord's Prayer includes it. But it's not for salvation, it's because you are already saved.

An example, if you sin towards your wife or husband, you say sorry, please forgive me. Do you say it to BE married (Saved), or do you say it because you are already married (Saved) and because you love them?

So as long as a person who died trusted in the blood of the Lamb to wash away ALL THEIR SIN, they will be in heaven, no matter if they died a sinner with sin in their lives. That's GRACE!

God bless.

 

[LovintheLord74]

Truth, I am not saying you are wrong my friend, Being new I have not read enough to be able to support my arguement. It just seems like when you commit suicide, you are purposfully sinning right before you die and that cant be good.

I guess the point I was making is that someone came to the forum for help, and I dont think we should find them ways to make it ok. The priority should be helping them find help for that person.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Truth, I am not saying you are wrong my friend, Being new I have not read enough to be able to support my arguement. It just seems like when you commit suicide, you are purposfully sinning right before you die and that cant be good...

I hear ya, I understand what you mean. But remember, there are many different reasons why someone may commit suicide, and God knows the heart.

Do not judge, do not condemn a person who has committed suicide, God knew their heart at the end, and God knew their intent and motives for taking their own lives, and God knows who will be in heaven or not.

And I agree my friend, we should encourage anyone who considers suicide to reach out for help and support.

God bless.

 

[LovintheLord74]

I agree my friend, and I do not condemn and try not to judge, but I have also been the one telling parents or wifes that their loved on is dead, or having to comfort them after they walked in the room to find their sons head exploded all over the wall. It causes huge amounts of pain which many people never get over. Heck it takes me weeks to get over it when I see one. I could never condone it because I know what it looks like.

But i do appreciate your knowledge of the scripture and I agree that God decides and knows who will sit with him in heaven.

 

[chaoticfirefly]

Thank you to everyone who answered...
Um, I'll make this post quick:

She's...alive, and made an appointment with a therapist. She said that she'll look at the rest of the verses that all of you recommended. I ended up staying up until around five in the morning, just letting her text me about everything and anything...

Evamore, I'm sorry to hear about your friend. I know...what it's like to lose someone to suicide. It still hurts to think about to this day.

Can any of you answer this:
Why does God allow so much pain? Will Heaven be worth it in the end?

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

I agree my friend, and I do not condemn and try not to judge, but I have also been the one telling parents or wifes that their loved on is dead, or having to comfort them after they walked in the room to find their sons head exploded all over the wall. It causes huge amounts of pain which many people never get over. Heck it takes me weeks to get over it when I see one. I could never condone it because I know what it looks like.
But i do appreciate your knowledge of the scripture and I agree that God decides and knows who will sit with him in heaven.

Thank you for sharing my friend.

But always remind yourself, even in the sight of pain and hurt and sad situations, "God's will be done".

Everything that happens, good and bad, will eventually be part of God's will on Earth.

It all started in heaven when "Morning Star", who later became known as Satan, began to question Gods government and claimed it was no good etc. And he wanted to be like the most High God.

Satan's arguments convinced many angels, and one-third joined him. If God had refused to create or had destroyed Satan immediately, some angelic beings who did not fully understand God's character may have begun to worship God through fear, saying, "he may have been correct. Be careful. If you differ with God, He may destroy you." So nothing would have been settled. Instead, the problem would have been heightened.

The only service acceptable to God is cheerful, voluntary service prompted by love. Obedience for any other reason is unacceptable.

Satan claimed he had a better plan for the government of the universe. God is giving him time to demonstrate his principles and his government. The Lord will abolish sin only after every person in the universe is convinced that Satan's government is unfair, hateful, ruthless, lying and destructive.

The Bible says. "We are made a spectacle [margin says "theater"] unto the world, and to angels, and to men." 1 Corinthians 4:9. The entire universe is watching as we each play a part in the controversy between Christ and Satan. As the controversy ends, every person will fully understand the principles of both kingdoms, and God will be vindicated.

God bless.

 

[LovintheLord74]

Thank you to everyone who answered...
Um, I'll make this post quick:

She's...alive, and made an appointment with a therapist. She said that she'll look at the rest of the verses that all of you recommended. I ended up staying up until around five in the morning, just letting her text me about everything and anything...

Can any of you answer this:
Why does God allow so much pain? Will Heaven be worth it in the end?

Fantastic news. Being there is the best thing you can do! You are a good friend. Stay on her and make sure she goes to see her therapist.

 

[Jase]

Hard to repent when you are dead. You cannot ask for forgiveness at that point, so i do not see how that would work. I do not think suicide would ever be in gods plan for anyone. Even if in the scripture, you can find a way to make it be ok for some, I would say we sghould stick with telling people that its not ok.

Suicide is not the unforgivable sin, so we know God can forgive people for it. I think it's a tricky issue, since people rarely commit suicide just for the heck of it. It's usually due to mental illness (depression) or some unbearable pain in life.

Suicide is simply what happens when one's pain is stronger than their ability to cope with it.

These people need help and compassion, not threats of hell.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Suicide does not fall under the commandment of "Thou shalt not murder" under Jewish law. There is no actual Biblical prohibition on suicide. It's mainly viewed negatively because it's taking one's own life in their hands instead of God's..

So do drug users and people eating themselves to death, smoking themselves to death, worrying and stressing themselves to death, or drinking themselves to death, or not exercising and not looking after themselves, that's a form of suicide. It may take a bit longer, but it's still a self-destructive suicide.

Would anyone dare say they are all lost too?

God bless.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Suicide is not the unforgivable sin, so we know God can forgive people for it. I think it's a tricky issue, since people rarely commit suicide just for the heck of it. It's usually due to mental illness (depression) or some unbearable pain in life.

Suicide is simply what happens when one's pain is stronger than their ability to cope with it.

These people need help and compassion, not threats of hell.

Amen

 

[MasterpieceMesias]

A little secret: If someone is dead set on doing it, NO ONE can stop him or her from doing it. What stopped me is that I actually like life, despite everything about it being rubbish.

If you can find the "why" you can bear almost any "how" Nietszche said.

good post

 

[evamore]

Amen, LovintheLord74! I agree with what you said:

“The priority should be helping them find help for that person."

Thanks TruthSeeker! Awesome, we both agree on suicide is a sin, and that we shouldn’t be “quick to judge and condemn people who had committed suicide.” If you read my other post I have, had a beautiful friend who had committed suicide and I have no feeling of judgement and condemnation towards her.

I agree on most of your points, but there are two in which I don’t completely agree. I haven’t had a chance to read your other post yet, because I was busy reading scripture trying to understand your first few post.

“Samson committed suicide and nobody would dare accuse Samson of being lost.”

I think to name Samson’s action as suicide is questionable. In Judges 16:23-31 is the record of account leading to his death. The Philistines chained him up in the temple as an act of offering to their god Dagon. The Philistines believed;

“...Our god has delivered Samson, our enemy into our hands. When the people saw him, the praised their god...” (Jud 16:23-24)

Samson was already facing death. He prayed to God for strength to kill the Philistines, which God enabled him. God gave him the strength to push the temple pillars onto the Philistines who where worshiping other god. I believe that God used Samson to demonstrate his power over their god Dagon.

The other point that I don’t quite grasp that you have forwarded is Judas is in heaven:

5. And hours before Judas Iscariot left the room at the Last Supper, Jesus said they will ALL drink with Jesus in heaven, Matthew 26:29, so Jesus was either lying or telling the truth, and of course Jesus told the truth, so that means Judas Iscariot will be in heaven because Jesus said so!

Here is the passage that you have forwarded. I have checked all translation and it does not say they will ALL drink with Jesus in heaven.

"While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it...Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father’s kingdom” Matthew 26:26-29.

The scripture doesn’t say that all 12 of his disciples where sitting with him as he spoke these words. But what does Jesus means a few verses earlier when he said;

“The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.” Matthew 26:23

If Judas was in heaven wouldn't it be awesome for him, but Jesus was warning him for the future?

Judas death was cursed. In Acts 1:18-20 Peter wrote about Judas death;

(With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)

“For,” said Peter, “it is written in the Book of Psalms:

‘May his place be deserted;
let there be no one to dwell in it,'


I know that I will never know what happens to people when they commit suicide, but I have alot of compassion for them.

 

[evamore]

Awesome news, Choaticfirefly. It's great to hear that your friend is in her way to the road of recovery!

Maybe you should start on new thread with your questions about pain and heaven. I think they are worthy questions and topics of discussion.

 

[wayfaring man]

Samson committed suicide and nobody would dare accuse Samson of being lost.

And Judas committed suicide, yet Jesus said Judas will be in heaven.

Judas NEVER condemned Jesus, in fact Judas claimed Jesus was the true Son of God!

Some points for you to realise:

1. Judas repented and declared Jesus innocent and confessed his sin.

2. Judas fulfilled God's Will.

3. Judas had a very important job in the Kingdom of God. For three and one half years, as a Priest he inspected the Lamb of God as an unbiased man. He was not "one of them" a Galilean. He was the outsider. He did his job perfectly. If Judas really wanted to mess things up, he could have agreed with the High Priesthood and called Him a "blasphemer" who claimed to be the Son of God when He really wasn't.

4. Judas declared the Lamb spotless and unblemished, the Perfect Passover.

5. And hours before Judas Iscariot left the room at the Last Supper, Jesus said they will ALL drink with Jesus in heaven, Matthew 26:29, so Jesus was either lying or telling the truth, and of course Jesus told the truth, so that means Judas Iscariot will be in heaven because Jesus said so!

6. Prior to the betrayal, Judas' only recorded sin was stealing from the money box. The other 11 apostles had accounts recorded of them of sins which included unbelief, lust for position and power, not being mindful of the things of the spirit but of man, all the disciples left Him, Peter denied Him 3 times in one night, falsely condemning people to fire when Jesus said He came to save, etc. Yet would anyone dare claim Peter and the other disciples were lost?

7. Judas was doing the will of the Father by turning Jesus over to the authorities to be sacrificed on our behalf! Never forget that! And anyone who does the will of the Father is blessed (Matt. 12:50). And don't forget, Peter denied Jesus over and over and the other Disciples also sinned terrible against Jesus! Sin is sin and deserves death, but by the grace of God, we are spared death and have the opportunity for eternal life.

8. And remember, Judas was remorseful, and only committed suicide out of his sheer sadness. Remember, Jesus picked Judas out of a crowd to be considered one of the 12 apostles, he didn’t weasel his way in, Jesus picked him.

God bless.

Consider what Jesus said concerning His "picking of Judas" -

Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? <-----> John 6:70

Judas Iscariot is not counted among those which the Lord did not lose. And he was under Satan's control when he went about betraying Jesus, not "on a mission from God"!

And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou does, do quickly. <-----> John 13:27

And just because Jesus is over Satan, doesn't mean that being complicit with Satan's works/ways won't bring condemnation.

Woe unto the world because of offenses! for it must needs be that offenses come; but woe to that man by whom the offense comes! <-----> Matthew 18:7

Behold -

When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples over the brook Cedron, where was a garden, into the which he entered, and his disciples.
And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus ofttimes resorted thither with his disciples.
Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, came thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.
Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:
That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gave me have I lost none. <-----> John 18:1-9


When Jesus quoted the saying that he had "lost none", Judas Iscariot was no longer standing amongst Jesus' followers, but was standing with the soldiers which the Lord knocked over backwards so that they would be intimidated enough to leave His followers alone.

Need more proof ?

Consider -

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gave me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. <-----> John 17:12

For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishopric let another take. <-----> Acts 1:20

Much of the passage of Scripture that Jesus and Peter refer to is found below -

Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.
Let the extortioner catch all that he has; and let the strangers spoil his labor.
Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favor his fatherless children.
Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out. <-----> Psalm 109:8-13

Judas Iscariot never fully embraced Christ message to - "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." <---> From Matthew 4:17 (Words of Jesus)

Behold -

Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,
Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?
This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein. <-----> John 12:4-6

Not only did he not fully embrace the grace to repent of his covetousness, but he sought to deceitfully mask it as being "genuine concern for the poor", which is basically "living a lie", of a most despicable sort.

Repentance from sin is indeed a required part of Salvation, but that doesn't mean "Salvation is works based", for Scripture tells us that God grants true repentance to those who are willing to honestly embrace the truth.

And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. <-----> 2nd Timothy 2:24-26

But if we believe we're saved without receiving repentance...then we may well feel we need not bother to earnestly seek God for it.

Consider Jesus' words to members of a Christian church -

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. <-----> Revelation 2:5

Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Remember therefore how thou has received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. <-----> Revelation 3:2+3

These statements and others like them attest that Jesus is putting a tremendous degree of importance upon our effectually receiving of the "gift of repentance"...which in essence means "to think differently", through having a "changed mind".

And we are given to understand, that though the Gift of Salvation, (through the power of The Holy Spirit), we can "have the mind of Christ" (1st Corinthians 2:16)

And it is "His Mind", not ours which enables us to truly repent/think differently from our own/old sinful ways.

Lacking the fruit of repentance, indicates a lack of having "the mind of Christ", which indicates a lack of regeneration, which indicates we've yet to be fully/effectually "saved from our sins".

Which means we need to seek The Lord more so than we have already...for He has said that "dying in our sins = unbelief in Him" ...which means dying without having effectually received the repentance which is inherent to the mind of Christ; so that even at the moment of a person's death, they're still engaged in their own sinful thinking...which means no true conversion to Jesus' way of thinking did take place, which means that one would be as Judas Iscariot was -"standing on the wrong side of Christ", being on the side of confronting Him and His, rather than on the side of following and supporting Him and His.

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. <-----> John 8:24

Merely stating we believe, is not necessarily actual belief. And if our claim is sharply contradicted by our thoughts and ways, then we are like Judas Iscariot was in claiming he was concerned for the poor, while he was really merely selfishly/sinfully coveting the coinage he thought he might have been able to steal away with...

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.
Thou believes that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? <-----> James 2:18-20

I for one hope and pray to be fully converted by the mind of Christ well before this life is over...for Spirit and Scripture keep telling me it is God's will for us in Christ, as He comes seeking a church without spot or blemish.

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that does good is of God: but he that does evil has not seen God. <-----> 3rd John 1:11

By "seen God" it is meant - discerned, perceived, attended, experienced God unto taking heed to God.

If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that does righteousness is born of him. <-----> 1st John 2:29

But if the deceiver can persuade us that we can be "born of God", without being effectually transformed, then we can "feel", like we're safe and sound in Christ, while we actually are not...which would also deter us from earnestly seeking that transformation from The Lord...which would greatly reduce our potential for being able to utilized the wondrous opportunity Jesus made possible for us to be eternally benefited by and from and with...namely, being purged of our old sinful ways, and reformed after Christ's own holy/upright nature !

So it is heard by the hearing of the ear.

wm

 

[parsley]

If God specified exactly what the terms are for appropriate death, then we would rest on the rules instead of His real terms of salvation-- grace, faith, love, accepting redemption.