Who believes this to be true: The Torah is not for Gentiles

[jcpro]

Can somone please show me what post answered my simple point? How can some people say Gentiles are not in the New Covenant, while also saying it is just for Israel and Judah, while also saying it has not yet begun, all as they quote Jeremiah 31 , "written on the hearts"..to Gentiles, the ones they say are not in that covenant, the very covenant they also say has not yet begun yet!?

Do you think the new covenant is here?
No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, "Know the Lord," for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord; for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more. Jer. 31:34

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

i would need clarification. If by "Torah" you mean the books in the Old Testament, it most certainly is for Gentiles, or any believer in the most High God, for in that instance it would be the very same books in my KJV Bible. Yes, it's for me, a Gentile, but more aptly identified as a child, a daughter of the Most High God.

Yes thou art

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G3841 matches the Greek παντοκράτωρ (pantokratōr), which occurs 10 times in 10 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

2 Corin 6:18 And I shall be to ye as a Father and ye shall be to Me as sons and daughters is saying Lord Almighty/panto-kratwr <3841>.

Reve 19:6 And I hear as sound of a vast throng and as sound of many waters and as sound of strong thunders saying "allelouia! that reigns Lord the God the Almighty"/panto-kratwr <3841>.

 

[brinny]

Amen!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Amen!

Thekla, a dear friend of mine, had an EO Icon of the Pantocrater...pretty kewl!

http://www.christianforums.com/t7544865/#post57022404

The four Gospel writers are the icons on the pendentives supporting the dome which has the icon of Jesus Christ Pantocrater; this is a visual demonstration of Christ as ruler of all, and the importance of the Gospels (and Holy Scripture) in the EO.

 

[brinny]

Beautiful.

 

[yedida]

Can somone please show me what post answered my simple point? How can some people say Gentiles are not in the New Covenant, while also saying it is just for Israel and Judah, while also saying it has not yet begun, all as they quote Jeremiah 31 , "written on the hearts"..to Gentiles, the ones they say are not in that covenant, the very covenant they also say has not yet begun yet!?

No one ever said that gentiles were not in the new/renewed covenant, just that the covenant proper was not made with the house of gentiles - it was to the houses of Israel and Judah that God spoke those words. This covenant is in process, but not yet in full force.

 

[yedida]

Thekla, a dear friend of mine, had an EO Icon of the Pantocrater...pretty kewl!

http://www.christianforums.com/t7544865/#post57022404

And this has to do with the OP how???

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No one ever said that gentiles were not in the new/renewed covenant, just that the covenant proper was not made with the house of gentiles - it was to the houses of Israel and Judah that God spoke those words. This covenant is in process, but not yet in full force.

When will that happen?

 

[Tishri1]

The Torah is for everyone. The problem is, of the two main groups supposed to be teaching it, one tries to keep it to themselves, and the other mostly ignores it.

do you still believe that after seeing this poll of folks here ? I think we are all feeling the same, the way we apply Torah to our lives may differ but we are all on the same page that Torah is for everyone

so enough with the trying to define Torah for each other's groups and getting it wrong....let each person have their own convictions about Torah and dont try to lable them one way or another


just know that most here believe Torah has a place in everyone lives and leave it at that we are not all going to agree on everything detail but we do agree on a basic point

 

[Tishri1]

Tish, I think you need to define 'Torah' and gentiles.

With the way you have worded it, it leaves it wide open for self interpretation.

Is Torah the 613 commandments as defined by RamBam?

Are we talking the 10 commandments written in stone written by the finger of G-d?

And Gentiles, does this mean all gentiles? IE Heathens? or Gentile G-d Fearers?


I can't answer to either of the choices, My belief is that Torah is for all of G-d's people, those he chose for himself.

Im not going to define it as its ment to be vague to give a simple Basic answer yes or no, we spend toooo much time drawing conclusions about each other in here and I think we need to look at a larger picture and not sweat out each other sooo much

 

[brinny]

i was told the Torah is the first 5 books of the Old Testament. Is it not?

 

[Tishri1]

pretty much sweety it mean teaching and instruction, and that is where its mostly found

 

[rsduncan]

When one starts using divisions, it gets confusing.

Addition and subtraction of fractions caused me a lot of grief when I was young!!!

 

[Tishri1]

oh yeh!

 

[Seeking Him]

Do you think the new covenant is here?
No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, "Know the Lord," for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord; for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more. Jer. 31:34

Is it in effect now, for the Gentiles, and is he saying that because the law is written on the Gentile hearts, they are now bound to the full Mosaic law? Thanks. SH.

 

[visionary]

Is it in effect now, for the Gentiles, and is he saying that because the law is written on the Gentile hearts, they are now bound to the full Mosaic law? Thanks. SH.

Make sure it is the revised as per Hebrews, as per Yeshua, as per Paul etc.. New Covenant.. From Stone to Heart.. the rest through Yeshua's Holy Spirit teaching.

 

[Seeking Him]

No one ever said that gentiles were not in the new/renewed covenant, just that the covenant proper was not made with the house of gentiles - it was to the houses of Israel and Judah that God spoke those words. This covenant is in process, but not yet in full force.

Well dear, if it's not in full force, God can't be writing, can he? It either is, or it isn't here. And if you're saying that it is not here, then you're saying there has been no remission. Clearly this verse shows the New Covenant has begun, because the wordage is quite clear, redemed from the sins of the first Covenant, showing how, because the death occured, while showing the Covenantal change. SH.

Hebrews 9:15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

 

[Lulav]

Another question - What are we to do with this verse: 2 Timothy 2:15

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
​

???

This would be Paul speaking to Timothy, but I don't find anywhere in Torah that studying Torah makes us 'approved'.

This is the NIV version

15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

And the CJB version

15 Do all you can to present yourself to God as someone worthy of his approval, as a worker with no need to be ashamed, because he deals straightforwardly with the Word of the Truth.

The Greek word, 'Spoudazo', basically means to give diligence or to hasten to, it is only once translated to read 'study'.

 

[Lulav]

At Mt. Sinai God did say these words were to be in each one's hearts, but each one was to write them there themselves by doing them, discussing them at all times. In the New/Renewed Covenant as spoken of by Jer. God says HE will write the words on each heart. Same covenant, it seems, different administration, so to speak.

Yup, as can be seen here, give it to humans and there's bound to be different interpretations, if He does it himself it will be perfect, nothing out of sinc.

 

[Lulav]

And this has to do with the OP how???

I was thinking the same thing. This thread has become a free for all instead of what i think it was meant to be, a poll for the MJ forum members.


To post an icon in a Torah thread is.............................................

To many adjectives to list.