I've got a couple of questions

[Ken-1122]

There is a diagram, that depicts each member of the Trinity as G-d, but distinct from the other parts. And yet if each part is G-d, it can't very well be a fraction.

Of course it can! Just as you are a complete human being as is your wife; but individually you are each only a fraction/part of the entity called a marriage, and only when together do you both make a married couple.
My question is if God the Father, Son, and HS are considered God, but individually are only a fraction/part of that entity called the Trinity.
Also in the absence of that diagram you spoke of, could you explain the difference between "part" and 'fraction"

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

Trinitarianism is the outgrowth of the early Christian Church coming to terms with the Jesus Event and all of its ramifications. That Jesus was in some sense identified with the God of Israel is found in the New Testament itself, what followed in the next few centuries was trying to make sense of this. Various competing theories existed at various times, some forms of Adoptionism posited that Jesus was adopted as God's Son and became Divine in His resurrection. Modalistic Monarchianism (also called Modalism or Sabellianism) stated that Jesus was the Father appearing in human likeness. Arianism said that Jesus was Divine, but was a lesser divinity, a second God created by the Father to function as an intermediary in the act of creation and redemption, a Demiurge.

Ultimately Trinitarianism was the result of early Christians concluding that these different theories just didn't work, they all failed at some level to describe the full impact of the Jesus Event. Following the specific Christological arguments in the early-mid 4th century between the Nicenes and Arians, the debate moved over to question of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit had long also been understood to be distinct from the Father and the Son in some sense, being at times identified with the Wisdom of God such as that Theophilus of Antioch spoke of the Trinity as the Father, His Word and His Wisdom.

It has nothing to do the Father needing help (or needing anything whatsoever); but has everything to do with making sense of the Event and experience of Christ and the Spirit in relation to the understanding of God in the ancient Christian community.

It just sounds like someone started out with the answer, then fought like heck to build the hypothesis around that answer; and it doesn't make sense.

K

 

[razeontherock]

Of course it can! Just as you are a complete human being as is your wife; but individually you are each only a fraction/part of the entity called a marriage, and only when together do you both make a married couple.

Well of course I see that, but this does not pertain to G-d, nor does it describe Him.

My question is if God the Father, Son, and HS are considered God, but individually are only a fraction/part of that entity called the Trinity.

I still don't think it works that way. You seem to be missing the concept of the Divine Essence, that each member of the Trinity is of the same substance.

 

[Ken-1122]

Well of course I see that, but this does not pertain to G-d, nor does it describe Him.



I still don't think it works that way. You seem to be missing the concept of the Divine Essence, that each member of the Trinity is of the same substance.

Okay let's try in this way: I've got 3 questions.

1. Is Jesus a part of the Trinity?
2. Is the Holy Ghost/Spirit a part of the Trinity?
3. Is God the Father a part of the Trinity?

A Yes/ No answer will do.

Ken

 

[razeontherock]

Okay let's try in this way: I've got 3 questions.

1. Is Jesus a part of the Trinity?
2. Is the Holy Ghost/Spirit a part of the Trinity?
3. Is God the Father a part of the Trinity?

A Yes/ No answer will do.

Ken

Yep. x 3

Yet you cannot divide G-d, so these three persons cannot be fractions. (A third means nothing other than 1 divided by 3)

 

[Ken-1122]

Yep. x 3

Yet you cannot divide G-d, so these three persons cannot be fractions. (A third means nothing other than 1 divided by 3)

I'm not asking if they are a third of God, I'm asking if each God individually are a third of the entity known as the Trinity! Can we agree with that?

Ken

 

[razeontherock]

No, we cannot agree on that. Not in the least. You're picturing G-d as some subset of the Trinity, who is a pantheon. That ain't it.

God is One.

 

[Merlinius]

My God is One. His Name is Jesus. He is the Christ. I am born of His Seed, He has Fathered me by His Holy Spirit.
Simple

 

[Ken-1122]

No, we cannot agree on that. Not in the least. You're picturing G-d as some subset of the Trinity, who is a pantheon. That ain't it.

God is One.

No I am picturing the 3 Gods as a part of the trinity; which we agreed on earlier.

K

 

[razeontherock]

No, we didn't agree on any such thing!

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

 

[Ken-1122]

No, we didn't agree on any such thing!

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Okay! Let me explain my confusion and maybe you can tell me where I'm going wrong.
First you say God the father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are each a complete God.
Next I ask you; Is Jesus a part of the Trinity? Your response; Yes!
Is the Holy Spirit a part of the Trinity? Your response; Yes!
Is God the father a part of the Trinity? Your response; Yes!
Then I refer to us agreeing that the 3 Gods are a part of the Trinity, and you say we made no such agreement!
So tell me where I'm going wrong.

Ken

 

[razeontherock]

Okay! Let me explain my confusion and maybe you can tell me where I'm going wrong.
First you say God the father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are each a complete God.

FULL STOP. Nope. To say the Son is in any way "complete" w/o the Father, makes no sense at all. and the Holy Spirit wasn't really given until after the ascension, so this explains why Jews / OT don't truly teach Trinity.

Each of the 3 is "of the same being."

 

[Ken-1122]

FULL STOP. Nope. To say the Son is in any way "complete" w/o the Father, makes no sense at all. and the Holy Spirit wasn't really given until after the ascension, so this explains why Jews / OT don't truly teach Trinity.

Each of the 3 is "of the same being."

So you say Jesus or the Holy Spirit are not complete God's by themselves?

 

[razeontherock]

They are not "each a complete G-d." They are One. He is complete.

 

[Ken-1122]

They are not "each a complete G-d." They are One. He is complete.

So Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God the father are not separate beings, they are the same Being?

K

 

[razeontherock]

Correct! That makes certain things hard to understand, which is why we have the revelation of the Son being a different "Person" than the Father, even though they are of the same essence. If that doesn't help you, ditch it.

 

[Ken-1122]

Correct! That makes certain things hard to understand, which is why we have the revelation of the Son being a different "Person" than the Father, even though they are of the same essence. If that doesn't help you, ditch it.

Well the revelation must be wrong if they are all the same! You can't be the same and different at the same time, so obviously the son is not a different person; right?

K

 

[razeontherock]

Wrong. (Y)our inability to understand it =/= "the revelation being wrong." G-d is not limited by our ability, but He does call us up into His abilities.