Paul confessing that he keeps the Law.

[LittleLambofJesus]

Talk about grammatical errors.

Are you trying to imply that my bro Paul made grammatical errors

http://www.christianforums.com/t7554942/
Paul's Writings

 

[IreneAdler]

I think he's trying to imply my bro LLOJ makes many grammatical errors

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I think he's trying to imply my bro LLOJ makes many grammatical errors

That culd b.....I fel asleep durin da GT Basic Grammar corse

http://www.christianforums.com/t7483715-10/#post55256681
Basic Grammar for GT, Courtesy of Mel and GCC

 

[Jpark]

Acts 24:14 (Amplified Bible)

14But this I confess to you, however, that in accordance with the Way [of the Lord], which they call a [heretical, division-producing] sect, I worship (serve) the God of our fathers, still persuaded of the truth of and believing in and placing full confidence in everything laid down in the Law [of Moses] or written in the prophets;

Paul's own admission, during his trial at Jerusalem before Felix.

Matt. 17:3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.

Moses represented the Law. Elijah represented the Prophets.

Matt. 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

They found their fulfillment in John the baptist (Luke 16:16) and Jesus' coming.

But they're not abolished.

Luke 16:17-18 "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.

Earlier we see:

"No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other You cannot serve God and wealth." 14Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, were listening to all these things and were scoffing at Him.
15And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed among men is detestable in the sight of God.

And in context,

Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.

Jesus is saying that the Pharisees were abandoning God for money and that they will be judged by the law or something like that.

Anyways...

I take another position:

Then again,

Matt. 17:3 and 5:17 are what Paul is referring to.

The NASB renders Acts 24:14 in this manner:

"But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;

In context,

Acts 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Basically, Paul is affirming his belief in the resurrection, the primary driving force of a believer (1 Cor. 15:17) and what distinguishes him from other religious men. The passage does not mean that Paul kept the law.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Matt. 17:3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.

Basically, Paul is affirming his belief in the resurrection, the primary driving force of a believer (1 Cor. 15:17) and what distinguishes him from other religious men. The passage does not mean that Paul kept the law.

As did his bro Peter


NKJV) Romans 1:4 [and] declared [to be] the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.

NKJV) Philippians 3:10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,

NKJV) 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G386 matches the Greek ἀνάστασις (anastasis), which occurs 42 times in 40 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

 

[11822]

I just want to serve and please God, that's all.


I love you guys.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Deut 18:15

 

[visionary]

The NT is the OT written all over again. As the disciples Peter says about... Paul's writings, there are those UNlearned in Torah who teach against what they do not know.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The NT is the OT written all over again. As the disciples Peter says about... Paul's writings, there are those UNlearned in Torah who teach against what they do not know.

There is actually a discussion on that topic over on the UT board.
Not sure why it wasn't created on the GT board

2 Peter 3:15 and the long-suffering of our Lord count ye salvation, according as also our beloved brother Paul--according to the wisdom given to him--did write to you
16 As also in all the letters speaking in them about these-things,in which is difficult-to-understand, whoany which the unlearned and unsteadfast are wresting/twisting as also the rests of Writings toward the own of them destruction

http://www.christianforums.com/t7599812/
False Apostle Paul & 2 Peter 3:15-17

I've been reading Questioning Paul for some time now, and I agree with the author's conclusions thus far. I understand many Christians quote 2 Peter 3:15-17 in support of Paul; I'll quote the author's expanded translation of these verses to you for consideration:

Contrary to how most Christians use these verses (based on faulty or muddled translations hiding the truth), he is stating that in actuality:

May Messiah commend us as He commended the assembly at Ephesus:

Messiah's letters in Revelation 2-3 was for His seven churches of Asia which were true to Him. Remarkably, it is also interesting to note that Ephesus is in the ancient Roman province of Asia, of which Paul wrote, in his own words:

 

[from scratch]

The NT is the OT written all over again. As the disciples Peter says about... Paul's writings, there are those UNlearned in Torah who teach against what they do not know.

How funny.

 

[Lindas Place]

Acts 24:14 (Amplified Bible)

14But this I confess to you, however, that in accordance with the Way [of the Lord], which they call a [heretical, division-producing] sect, I worship (serve) the God of our fathers, still persuaded of the truth of and believing in and placing full confidence in everything laid down in the Law [of Moses] or written in the prophets;

Paul's own admission, during his trial at Jerusalem before Felix.

Evidently, the Jews did not agree with Paul as to what the law and the Prophets say…

Acts24
14 However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,

Acts 25
8 Then Paul made his defense:
“I have done nothing wrong against the law of the Jews or against the temple or against Caesar.”

Acta26
22 But I have had God’s help to this very day, and so I stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses said would happen—

23 that the Christ would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would proclaim light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

27 King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know you do.”

Acts 28
23 They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. From morning till evening he explained and declared to them the kingdom of God and tried to convince them about Jesus from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets.

25 They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: “The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your forefathers when he said through Isaiah the prophet:

26 “‘Go to this people and say,
“You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.”
27 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’

28 “Therefore I want you to know that God’s salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!”

31 Boldly and without hindrance he preached the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Frogster]

The NT is the OT written all over again. As the disciples Peter says about... Paul's writings, there are those UNlearned in Torah who teach against what they do not know.

beloved Paul...called scripture by Peter.

Did Paul use the OT? Sure, and it was about Abraham just by faith, not law.

Think Abraham, the Abrahamic gospel is not law, the promise is not by law, we did not get the Sprit by law, we are not heirs by law, the just shall live by faith, the law was until the PROMISE..3:19.

Hoot dangy!

let me know if ya want scripture to prove this?

 

[from scratch]

Matt. 17:3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.

Moses represented the Law. Elijah represented the Prophets.

Matt. 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

They found their fulfillment in John the baptist (Luke 16:16) and Jesus' coming.

But they're not abolished.

Luke 16:17-18 "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.

Earlier we see:

"No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other You cannot serve God and wealth." 14Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, were listening to all these things and were scoffing at Him.
15And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed among men is detestable in the sight of God.

And in context,

Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.

Jesus is saying that the Pharisees were abandoning God for money and that they will be judged by the law or something like that.

Anyways...

I take another position:

Then again,

Matt. 17:3 and 5:17 are what Paul is referring to.

The NASB renders Acts 24:14 in this manner:

"But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;

In context,

Acts 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Basically, Paul is affirming his belief in the resurrection, the primary driving force of a believer (1 Cor. 15:17) and what distinguishes him from other religious men. The passage does not mean that Paul kept the law.

The law cancels Grace and grace cancels the law. They are opposed. Gal 5:4 says very clearly one must choose one of the other. It is impossible to have both. The pro law camp only wishes to be free from punishment. This is why a guilty criminal asks for mercy from the demands of the law proving his violation (sin - wrong doing). It is within the power of the judge (grace administrator) to wave (dismiss) the requirements of the law. If the law can't punish it has no value.

 

[from scratch]

Name one time where Jesus spoke opposite of what the Torah teaches.
Even in the Beatitudes where He says, "you have heard it said....but I say to you..." He is NOT tearing down what had been heard (and that right there shows what had been heard was not necessarily what had been written) or where He said, "...it is written...but I say unto you...", but instead He was elucidating on the command, making it clearer, bringing it home so to speak, showing how to live it. His entire ministry was wrapped up in Torah.
And He also said that the Pharisees sit on the seat of Moses, that the people were to do as they say, but not do as they do, for the Pharisees tell others to do things that they themselves do not do. Jesus NEVER ONCE said that in 3 years time the Torah would die a sad death. Instead He said that the Torah would be alive and well and valid as long as there was a sun, a moon and an earth and prophecy concerning Himself still to be fulfilled. You cannot refute that without calling Jesus (reader may supply needed term), well, you cannot refute that.

Did someone say Jesus was tearing down anything? Jesus clearly wasn't teaching obligation to the law. If anything Jesus was teaching something stronger and much different from the law evn by your own admission above. The word but changes it to something different. The very first word in the deffinition of but is contrary.

 

[visionary]

The law cancels Grace and grace cancels the law. They are opposed. Gal 5:4 says very clearly one must choose one of the other. It is impossible to have both. The pro law camp only wishes to be free from punishment. This is why a guilty criminal asks for mercy from the demands of the law proving his violation (sin - wrong doing). It is within the power of the judge (grace administrator) to wave (dismiss) the requirements of the law. If the law can't punish it has no value.

The law of Moses explains how God's grace works, is applied, and how it is God's justification.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Acts 24:14 (Amplified Bible)

14But this I confess to you, however, that in accordance with the Way [of the Lord], which they call a [heretical, division-producing] sect, I worship (serve) the God of our fathers, still persuaded of the truth of and believing in and placing full confidence in everything laid down in the Law [of Moses] or written in the prophets;

Paul's own admission, during his trial at Jerusalem before Felix.

1Cr 7:18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
1Cr 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
1Cr 7:20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

Act 16:1 Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father [was] a Greek:
Act 16:2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.
Act 16:3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.
Act 16:4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.

Yes, Paul was a Jew and circumcised Timothy, a half Jew, before taking him on a trip to the Gentile Churches with him, so as to deliver the letter to the Gentiles, written by the Apostles in Jerusalem, that freed them from keeping the Law of Moses and from coming under Moses.

In Jerusalem they said "they would not lay this burden on the Gentiles, but the Jews have Moses read in the synagogue every Sabbath": and so, Jews keep the Law, even after they come into Christ [and Paul also said as much and to remain as they were called "in the circumcision/Jews, or not in the circumcision/Gentiles. Gentiles who come into Christ do not keep Moses; were never commanded to keep Moses; and will never be commanded to keep Moses; as the Law is the Tutor to teach about Christ's Person and His work for the Salvation, by Atonement, come in flesh, for all born in Adam -whosoever will: to the Jew first and also to the Gentile.

Paul hated Judaising done by those who did not understand the purpose of the Law as Instructor, by being a Living Oracle to instruct in Christ's Person and Work.

 

[11822]

The law says: love God with heart mind and soul, love thy neighbor as thyself and Jesus said: love thy enemy and do good to them that curse you.

It doesn't sound like Grace is apposed to the law. If i love God with my heart mind and soul, then i will uphold the law and not do any evil to my neighbor. And the grace of God can only help us do this, who would want to say doing evil is preferable to doing good after believing in Jesus?

 

[Frogster]

The law of Moses explains how God's grace works, is applied, and how it is God's justification.

incorrect, the gentiles obtained it by faith, rom 9;30, the jews did not, law is not grace.


11;6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

lets not do that grace "works thing", where we fuse the 2 ways. The son of the slavegirl is outta here...heirs like Abe by promise..


sis, i like ya! but Abe totally goes against the mj doctrine.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The law of Moses explains how God's grace works, is applied, and how it is God's justification.

Jesus also explains how God's grace works and it's justification through them as does Peter

http://www.christianforums.com/t7549230-2/#post57234334
Are you under THE law, Grace or both (2)

1 Peter 2:12 The behavior of ye in the the nations having ideal.
That in which they are speaking against ye as evil doers, out of the ideal works being spectators they should be glorifying God in day of visitation/inspection.
[Matt 5:16]

Reve 2:23 And the offspring of her I shall be killing in death, and shall be knowing all the Outcalleds that I am the One searching kidneys/reigns and hearts
and I shall be giving to ye each according to the works of ye.
[Jeremiah 17:10]

 

[from scratch]

The law of Moses explains how God's grace works, is applied, and how it is God's justification.

The law doies no such thing!!! The law provides only for total obedience. It rewards only by perforfamce or no performance.