What God really wants from us.....

[mkgal1]

We need to understand that references to 'works' especially by Paul refer to Torah keeping, the works of the law, not good deeds or self effort as such.

John
NZ

That's an important point.

 

[chaz345]

That's an important point.

It is. But it's one you seem to not necessarily agree with since you characterize doing what's right when one's heart isn't in it as hollow works.

 

[mkgal1]

It is. But it's one you seem to not necessarily agree with since you characterize doing what's right when one's heart isn't in it as hollow works.

That doesn't contradict that.

 

[chaz345]

That doesn't contradict that.

It does in the very definition of works. Doing the right thing when one's heat isn't in it has nothing to do with keeping the Old Testemant law.

 

[dallasapple]

I guess for me?My conslusion ?I want NOTHING to do with let alone to be married with someone who is "doing the works" with NO REAL FEELINGS of LOVE behind it..ZERO..

Others can live that way ..I can NOT..not with joy and true intimacy...

So...We are created in Gods image..I can ONLY 'assume' he wants my EMOTIONS of love towards HIM..not for me to dutifully recite a prayer that I dont really mean ..I just do "it" to be obedient..He wants me to "love' Him..not 'act' like I do..Period..

That my PERSONAL beleif and Im happy that way...

Dallas

 

[Tannic]

I guess for me?My conslusion ?I want NOTHING to do with let alone to be married with someone who is "doing the works" with NO REAL FEELINGS of LOVE behind it..ZERO..

Others can live that way ..I can NOT..not with joy and true intimacy...

So...We are created in Gods image..I can ONLY 'assume' he wants my EMOTIONS of love towards HIM..not for me to dutifully recite a prayer that I dont really mean ..I just do "it" to be obedient..He wants me to "love' Him..not 'act' like I do..Period..

That my PERSONAL beleif and Im happy that way...

Dallas

I hear you... Just going through the works is ... boring but doing it becuse you really mean it is something else.

 

[dallasapple]

I hear you... Just going through the works is ... boring but doing it becuse you really mean it is something else.

Exactly..maybe Im "spoiled" but Im into 'passion"..I want to REALLY laugh and feel it..I want to allow myself the "luxury" of sadness with tears when the time comes not suck it up and play "strong"..I want investiagte and LEARN with a REAL "feeling" of anticipation/excitiment and HOPE of something "gained" in the end..Experience life WITH the full range of emotions..Including "quietness" as well and being "still" and calm not "bored" though..I want to soak in the simple things..because they are added up...and FEEL God..I want him to FEEL "me"..I dont "dread " the future but Im acutely aware for whatever reason its coming and "we" only get a little bit of time..why waste it being dormant inside?Thy kingdom come thy WILL BE DONE on earth as it is in heaven?What are they going through the motions in heaven?Is heaven an "act" void of love ?If Christ is righteousness..peace and love..and hes in your heart I think the answer is its not a "motion" void of feeling that is His will to be done.

Dallas

 

[mkgal1]

It does in the very definition of works. Doing the right thing when one's heat isn't in it has nothing to do with keeping the Old Testemant law.

If we are following the "spirit of the law".....we are automatically keeping the "letter of the law".

 

[mkgal1]

Okay....I was thinking back to my original question..."What does God want from us?"....and was thinking of Hebrews 11:6

Without faith, it's IMPOSSIBLE to please God. ~Hebrews 11:6

Also....

Yet he (Abraham) did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21 being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.”~Romans 4:20-22

and

Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification. ~Romans 4:23-25

Unless our belief system changes.....we will not be following God...we won't be believing Him enough to do that. So...IMO...that's what He wants the most....for us to believe HIM (being fully persuaded of His promises) and, He will be faithful to show us we can trust Him.

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him~Proverbs 30:5

 

[Autumnleaf]

Your thoughts?

I think God wants our children.

 

[Conservativation]

I hear you... Just going through the works is ... boring but doing it becuse you really mean it is something else.

There is confusion here, and there is no reason for it, accept, there is one group, and one thing basically rejected

No one rejects the example about getting up in the night with a baby. Though you can twist words all you want, no one WANTS to do that.

But mention it in marriage and youd think its modern slavery

The image of marriage that comes across here is something, if I was a single Christian man, would scare me to death.....and it should

I get your point but I think you lack context here to really get whats being said

 

[mkgal1]

It's a decision of what we WANT more.....a parting of two ways. Do we want to indulge in our own sleep over the care of a helpless baby, that's dependent upon us? Can we even enjoy that sleep....hearing the screaming of a hungry baby? Is our own conscience able to ignore the baby? Bottom line....do we want to be a responsible parent....or would we rather live selfishly, ignoring the needs of our child?

 

[His Wife]

This is such a confusing concept to me. I think it's totally unrealistic to expect that our wants will always align with what's right. I know that I should eat healthy. But sometimes I don't want to. The hassle with making the food, buying the food, spending time creating meals that are healthy but also tasty can be so stressful. If it's "empty" to do what's right when you're heart isn't in it, then what's the right thing to do here? If I don't eat healthy simply because I'm not fond of the hassle that comes with healthy eating, I'll gain weight and do harm to my body. Who cares if, initially, my heart isn't in it? The point is to start eating healthy. Once I did, I noticed myself losing inches without even exercising. I noticed an increase in energy, in mental function, in comprehension. I still hate the hassle that comes with healthy eating. But my heart is in it much more now than it was when I started because I see and feel the changes.

Point being, sometimes our hearts are not going to be in doing what we know to be right. As another example, sometimes my heart isn't into apologizing to my husband when I know I need to. Just yesterday there was a misunderstanding between us that I didn't want to let go of. I knew I should, and I knew I needed to apologize but I didn't want to at all. Yet, I still did. And after I did, I was able to let it go. My heart followed my actions.

I think it's naive to expect that our hearts will always be in what we know we should do. I think it can be healthy to do what we know is right even if we don't feel like it. In the example of the baby, I think it's understandable for the parents to not want to wake up every four hours to feed the baby. I think it would be wrong and selfish if they followed that want instead of being responsible, but I don't think it's realistic to expect that the love the parent has for the baby will always make them want or desire to get out of bed early in the morning.

Or another example, say a husband has a job painting houses. A man working that job here, where I live, would have to talk himself into getting out of bed in the morning. His heart doesn't have to be in it for him to get paid.

Spiritually, I believe our feelings and actions are equally important. However, I still don't think it's realistic to expect that our hearts will always be in the choices we know are right. Like I said about myself forgiving my husband, it took stepping forward in the action I knew to be right to get my heart to be in it.

 

[chaz345]

It's a decision of what we WANT more.....a parting of two ways. Do we want to indulge in our own sleep over the care of a helpless baby, that's dependent upon us? Can we even enjoy that sleep....hearing the screaming of a hungry baby? Is our own conscience able to ignore the baby? Bottom line....do we want to be a responsible parent....or would we rather live selfishly, ignoring the needs of our child?

What makes the needs of a hungry baby different than the needs of a spouse though? Or to put it in terms closer to what you just said, do we want to be a responsible spouse or would we rather live selfishly ignoring the needs(or desires) of our spouse?

 

[JaneFW]

What makes the needs of a hungry baby different than the needs of a spouse though? Or to put it in terms closer to what you just said, do we want to be a responsible spouse or would we rather live selfishly ignoring the needs(or desires) of our spouse?

A baby is utterly reliant upon its parents/adults to get its needs meet -and I mean needs, such as hunger. A fully able adult can shift for him or herself. A baby doesn't understand not being fed. It can't be reasoned with. An adult should be able to think just a little bit above that.

 

[mkgal1]

I think you're misunderstanding my posts, HW. I'm not suggesting that we should expect that our wants will always align with God's. You are right....that *is* unrealistic.

What I am saying is....when it comes to that point, where we sense His direction in one way...and we *want* to go another...(or ignore it all together)...then, IMO, based on Scripture....I believe He is more interested in us changing our beliefs (which is repentance---changing our mind)....believing HIS promises to us......allowing Him to help us with our unbelief, instead of just us acting. That's doing something on our strength......and it will eventually circle back to where we were......where we believed.

Using your food example......it's similar to what I said earlier.....you are wanting to feel better & look better more than you hate the hassle of eating right. As long as that remains your belief...IMO....you will probably be able to keep it up. If, on certain days, you believe it *isn't* worth the hassle.....that one day won't matter...or even a weekend won't matter, then you probably won't go through the hassle on those days---because that's what you believe.

 

[chaz345]

A baby is utterly reliant upon its parents/adults to get its needs meet -and I mean needs, such as hunger. A fully able adult can shift for him or herself. A baby doesn't understand not being fed. It can't be reasoned with. An adult should be able to think just a little bit above that.

True, but also not at all the point. You do what needs to be done for the baby simply because it's what you are supposed to do. The fact that you may not want to at a particular time doesn't make it any less an act of love. Same thing with what we do for our spouse or for God.

 

[c1ners]

True, but also not at all the point. You do what needs to be done for the baby simply because it's what you are supposed to do. The fact that you may not want to at a particular time doesn't make it any less an act of love. Same thing with what we do for our spouse or for God.

As long as it's done with a cheerful heart I believe it's okay. If though you constantly complain about doing that deed and/or hang it over your spouses head as ammo, then you aren't really truly anyone any favors. And I don't think God would be very happy with you either.

We don't have to enjoy everything we do. Heck, I don't think most of us "enjoy" going to work, but we do it. What matters is our attitude while doing it.

And we don't have to give in to our spouse (or anyone for that matter) all the time. That would be fake. Sometimes a person has to say "no".

 

[chaz345]

And we don't have to give in to our spouse (or anyone for that matter) all the time. That would be fake. Sometimes a person has to say "no".

Even God?

 

[His Wife]

I think you're misunderstanding my posts, HW. I'm not suggesting that we should expect that our wants will always align with God's. You are right....that *is* unrealistic.

What I am saying is....when it comes to that point, where we sense His direction in one way...and we *want* to go another...(or ignore it all together)...then, IMO, based on Scripture....I believe He is more interested in us changing our beliefs (which is repentance---changing our mind)....believing HIS promises to us......allowing Him to help us with our unbelief, instead of just us acting. That's doing something on our strength......and it will eventually circle back to where we were......where we believed.

I better understand now. I can't say that I agree, though. I think He may desire the change of belief first, but in many cases an action does need to follow. Jonah, for example. His beliefs changed, but he still had to go to Ninevah.

Using your food example......it's similar to what I said earlier.....you are wanting to feel better & look better more than you hate the hassle of eating right. As long as that remains your belief...IMO....you will probably be able to keep it up. If, on certain days, you believe it *isn't* worth the hassle.....that one day won't matter...or even a weekend won't matter, then you probably won't go through the hassle on those days---because that's what you believe.

Ehh, not so much. Allowing yourself to go that one day can be, and is, detrimental to your success in being healthy. One day turns into two, which turns into a week, and before you know it, you've packed on the fat again. Even when I don't think it's worth the hassle, I do my best to push through and do it anyway. Same with exercise. When I feel like it's not worth it, and I'm never gonna reach my goals, are the days when I work out even harder. We shouldn't allow ourselves to be swayed by the lack of heart in something we do. If we know it's right, we should still do it.