What God really wants from us.....

[c1ners]

Even God?

Of course not.........that was a silly question.

 

[chaz345]

Of course not.........that was a silly question.

Not really, it goes to idea that's being put forth that obedience even when your heart isn't in it is hypocricy. Not that you said that, but it has been said. Yes ultimately God wants us to want what He does but like I've said, that aligning of our will and desires to His is a process, a lifelong one. And in a case where what we want is counter to what we know He wants, obedience without it being what we really want for ourself is absolutely what He wants.

 

[chaz345]

I better understand now. I can't say that I agree, though. I think He may desire the change of belief first, but in many cases an action does need to follow. Jonah, for example. His beliefs changed, but he still had to go to Ninevah.

Yes and I think a case can be made that he went even though going is not what he wanted to do. We wanted to obey God, but the action involved in that obedience is still not what he would have done given the choice.

 

[c1ners]

"God will bless a cheerful heart." I do believe that's in the bible some place. If you're going to do something that you don't really want to do, do it with a cheerful heart and try not to ruin it for the person whom you are doing it for. If you can't then you might as well not do it at all.

God does NOT expect for us to do everything everyone wants from us. That's just riduculous! I'm almost positive that there are times in my life when he (God) himself has told me "no".

 

[chaz345]

"God will bless a cheerful heart." I do believe that's in the bible some place. If you're going to do something that you don't really want to do, do it with a cheerful heart and try not to ruin it for the person whom you are doing it for. If you can't then you might as well not do it at all.

God does NOT expect for us to do everything everyone wants from us. That's just riduculous! I'm almost positive that there are times in my life when he (God) himself has told me "no".

No one except you said anything about doing everything someone wants from us though. The subject was about doing things that one might not especailly want to at the moment. Things that we know are in fact the right thing to do. Obviously if it's always a case of "man I really don't want to do that" there is a problem wether it is something you are doing for a spouse or for God though. But no one said anything about it always being that way either. Sometimes it is necessary to do something that you know is the right thing to do, even if you don't particulalrly want to at the moment. And the fact that you are doing it "against your preference" does not make it meaningless wether it is something that you are doing for another person or for God.

 

[c1ners]

And I do believe I agreed with you. However, I also added that instead of doing the thing that you don't want to go grumpily, you should always do it with a cheerful heart. Because without a cheerful heart you might as well not do it at all.

 

[chaz345]

And I do believe I agreed with you. However, I also added that instead of doing the thing that you don't want to go grumpily, you should always do it with a cheerful heart. Because without a cheerful heart you might as well not do it at all.

This part:

God does NOT expect for us to do everything everyone wants from us. That's just riduculous! I'm almost positive that there are times in my life when he (God) himself has told me "no".

seemed like disagreement to me. In addition it addresses a thought that had never been raised.

 

[c1ners]

I never claimed to be perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If it's perfection you are trying for, you might want to consider putting me on block because half the time what I'm thinking in my head does not make it to the computer in the same way.

 

[chaz345]

I never claimed to be perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If it's perfection you are trying for, you might want to consider putting me on block because half the time what I'm thinking in my head does not make it to the computer in the same way.

I was just explaining what it was that you said that caused me to think you were disagreeing. That's all. I'm not mad or anything, just trying to explain why my response was what it was.

 

[mkgal1]

I better understand now. I can't say that I agree, though. I think He may desire the change of belief first, but in many cases an action does need to follow. Jonah, for example. His beliefs changed, but he still had to go to Ninevah.

I'm glad you brought up Jonah. Here is the text from the Bible:

Jonah’s Disobedience

1 Now the word of the LORD came to Jonah the son of Amittai, saying, 2 “Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry out against it; for their wickedness has come up before Me.” 3 But Jonah arose to flee to Tarshish from the presence of the LORD. He went down to Joppa, and found a ship going to Tarshish; so he paid the fare, and went down into it, to go with them to Tarshish from the presence of the LORD.
The Storm at Sea


4 But the LORD sent out a great wind on the sea, and there was a mighty tempest on the sea, so that the ship was about to be broken up.
5 Then the mariners were afraid; and every man cried out to his god, and threw the cargo that was in the ship into the sea, to lighten the load.[a] But Jonah had gone down into the lowest parts of the ship, had lain down, and was fast asleep.
6 So the captain came to him, and said to him, “What do you mean, sleeper? Arise, call on your God; perhaps your God will consider us, so that we may not perish.”
7 And they said to one another, “Come, let us cast lots, that we may know for whose cause this trouble has come upon us.” So they cast lots, and the lot fell on Jonah. 8 Then they said to him, “Please tell us! For whose cause is this trouble upon us? What is your occupation? And where do you come from? What is your country? And of what people are you?”
9 So he said to them, “I am a Hebrew; and I fear the LORD, the God of heaven, who made the sea and the dry land.”
Jonah Thrown into the Sea


10 Then the men were exceedingly afraid, and said to him, “Why have you done this?” For the men knew that he fled from the presence of the LORD, because he had told them. 11 Then they said to him, “What shall we do to you that the sea may be calm for us?”—for the sea was growing more tempestuous.
12 And he said to them, “Pick me up and throw me into the sea; then the sea will become calm for you. For I know that this great tempest is because of me.”
13 Nevertheless the men rowed hard to return to land, but they could not, for the sea continued to grow more tempestuous against them. 14 Therefore they cried out to the LORD and said, “We pray, O LORD, please do not let us perish for this man’s life, and do not charge us with innocent blood; for You, O LORD, have done as it pleased You.” 15 So they picked up Jonah and threw him into the sea, and the sea ceased from its raging. 16 Then the men feared the LORD exceedingly, and offered a sacrifice to the LORD and took vows.~Book of Jonah, 1st Chapter

I see it differently. I don't see it as a matter of Jonah going to Ninevah as much as what God ultimately wanted....Jonah's trust of Him. We are told that Jonah sought to flee the presence of the LORD. That's exactly in opposition to what God wants.....that Jonah (and all) fear Him and worship Him.

God caused things to turn around in Jonah's mind (and the minds of those with him on the boat).........to convince Jonah (and the others) to BELIEVE HIM. To *know* He is God. IMO....He (God) didn't punish Jonah for wanting to flee His presence.......He *showed* him why that wouldn't be best for him.

 

[mkgal1]

This is what demonstrates Jonah's "change of heart":

When my soul fainted within me,
I remembered the LORD;
And my prayer went up to You,
Into Your holy temple.
8 “ Those who regard worthless idols
Forsake their own Mercy.
9 But I will sacrifice to You
With the voice of thanksgiving;
I will pay what I have vowed.
Salvation is of the LORD.~ Book of Jonah, Chapter 2

 

[mkgal1]

"God will bless a cheerful heart." I do believe that's in the bible some place. If you're going to do something that you don't really want to do, do it with a cheerful heart and try not to ruin it for the person whom you are doing it for. If you can't then you might as well not do it at all.

This may be the passage you're thinking of:

Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. ~ 2nd Corinthians 9:7

 

[dallasapple]

Right..and robots don't posess "cheer'..they have no heart at all period.You cant demand or force 'cheer" either..and you are a fool to get "mad" at someone whos not cheery.

Faking cheer is no different than faking remorse..God knows it..and in the end most everyone else knows it wasnt real either..

There was a guy that had raped and murdred 2 teeanage girls(one was 14 and the other one 17) and he had attacked and attemtped to rape another girl in between those two that had fought him off(she had been raised in martial arts)..any way he confessed to get off of being put to death..during the trial he 'cried" as one mother of the victim gave an impact statment..they said it wasnt "real"..a few moments after her the one that had gotten away made the comment..I wanted to also come here and ask him "hows your nose"(she had smashed his nose with a marshall arts elbow slam)..His eyes turned into the devils eyes and his teeth were grinding..you could SEE the hatred and rage in him it was unmistakable..

Later in prison he said if he wasnt in prison..his goal woudl be to kill again and again..that he WOULD continue to murder and rape as long as he lived.He said that he has pure rage inside and its beyond his ability to control it..sheer hatred...

This is the same guy that 'mustered up some tears" for one of the mothers of the dead.What was the point?It was a complete show..a lie..meant absolutley nothing..

Dallas

 

[mkgal1]

That's a good example, Dallas. Something I heard a long time ago was....."love and hate cannot dwell together"....one will eventually drive out the other. We can bury emotions....shove them way to the bottom of our heart....but, eventually, when we are "squeezed" and under pressure....all that's inside is going to come out (just like when the murderer was asked about his nose). Those "sore spots" need to be healed.

 

[chaz345]

This is what demonstrates Jonah's "change of heart":

But he still viewed it as a sacrifice, something that he, had it been entirely his choice, would not have done. He did it only because he knew it was what God wanted.

 

[mkgal1]

But he still viewed it as a sacrifice, something that he, had it been entirely his choice, would not have done. He did it only because he knew it was what God wanted.

That's not how I see it. Jonah *was* sacrificing for God (not that he only viewed it as a sacrifice)........the Ninevites (or however that's spelled) were violent and evil....he *was* risking his life to go there. That's the "parting of two ways"......does he value his physical life (want that most) over life with God?

Originally, Jonah chose his life without God (that's what he wanted....after he calculated the cost)....his belief then changed to believe that it's worth the cost. That God's mercy, salvation, and presence was what he wanted most, and was willing to pay the price......with thanksgiving.

Just because there is a cost (which is really all "sacrifice" is) for something doesn't mean we aren't wanting to pay.

 

[mkgal1]

I didn't quote all of Jonah's prayer earlier...here is the beginning of it....he went from fleeing God's presence to adoration and gratitude. IMO...that's JUST what God wants from us....a restored relationship:

[a]From inside the fish Jonah prayed to the LORD his God. 2 He said:
“In my distress I called to the LORD,
and he answered me.
From deep in the realm of the dead I called for help,
and you listened to my cry.
3 You hurled me into the depths,
into the very heart of the seas,
and the currents swirled about me;
all your waves and breakers
swept over me.
4 I said, ‘I have been banished
from your sight;
yet I will look again
toward your holy temple.’
5 The engulfing waters threatened me,[b]
the deep surrounded me;
seaweed was wrapped around my head.
6 To the roots of the mountains I sank down;
the earth beneath barred me in forever.
But you, LORD my God,
brought my life up from the pit. ~Jonah 2

To see God as One to flee from, to the One that saves....is a HUGE turning point for ALL of us. IMO....Jonah first viewed Ninevah as the place to escape from....then his life would be spared. He then (again...my opinion, based on the text) realized that life ANYWHERE without God is what should be avoided. THAT is what changed his behavior. IOW...his first solution was to avoid Ninevah....that was his "salvation". Then....he realized that God is his salvation. "Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it."

 

[mkgal1]

Another thing, too......God *does* give us what we want....He doesn't pressure us to "do the right thing". He gave us free will to make choices.....ALL choices are up to us. His Word lays out our choices for us, so we may make an informed decision:

John 12:25 The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants~ Deut 30:19