Question about the Second Coming.

[Grumpy Old Man]

In another thread (made by Curious Atheist) about the Apocalypse, I came across the post below, which I've redacted to the parts that interest me.

The present age will come to an end. However the Christian hope is in the restoration of the world "a new heavens and a new earth".

"Heaven" best describes the intermediate state, between death and resurrection. At least as usually understood. "World to Come" or "Age to Come" probably best describes the ultimate future state after the resurrection of the dead and Judgment.

The Prophet Isaiah looks forward to a time of new heavens and new earth, he also describes a time when carnivorous and herbivorous animals rest together in peace, where swords are beaten into plowshares and spears into pruning hooks. St. John the Divine's vision shares in Isaiah's description, namely of a new heavens and a new earth, of God making all things new at the consummation of history.

-CryptoLutheran

My question is this; in this apocalypse, what happens to the rest of the Universe? We live in the middle of a galaxy in a universe of which there are over 100 billion other galaxies that we can observe. Surely God isn't going to scrap all of these other galaxies just because humans live on one planet? It just seems a little narcissistic to me for humans to believe they have got God's undivided attention in such a staggeringly vast universe.

Also, let's say God recreates just our earth. Eventually our sun will start to run out of energy, turn into a red giant and burn out all life on earth. Not just this, but the whole universe is set to die in trillions of years as stars die out and there are no more materials to make them with. What happens then?

 

[CryptoLutheran]

In another thread (made by Curious Atheist) about the Apocalypse, I came across the post below, which I've redacted to the parts that interest me.



My question is this; in this apocalypse,

Just nitpicking a bit here, but I'd like to point out that the word "apocalypse", even though in common usage refers to the "end of the world" does not actually mean that. The Greek word, ἀποκάλυψις (apokalupsis) means "unveiling", and is translated as "revelation", hence the title of the last book of the New Testament as the Apocalypse/Revelation of St. John.

Again, it may just be a nitpick, but I think it's important.

what happens to the rest of the Universe? We live in the middle of a galaxy in a universe of which there are over 100 billion other galaxies that we can observe. Surely God isn't going to scrap all of these other galaxies just because humans live on one planet? It just seems a little narcissistic to me for humans to believe they have got God's undivided attention in such a staggeringly vast universe.

I don't believe God is going to scrap anything. The entirety of creation is going to be restored/redeemed/glorified. The billions of galaxies, the countless stars, the trillions of worlds and whatever inhabitants they may have will all be part of the new creation.

Also, let's say God recreates just our earth.

I don't believe God is going to recreate it, He's going to renew it along with all creation.

Eventually our sun will start to run out of energy, turn into a red giant and burn out all life on earth. Not just this, but the whole universe is set to die in trillions of years as stars die out and there are no more materials to make them with. What happens then?

That scenario won't happen, the renewal and restoration of all things means a transformation of the entire created order, restored and radiating the pure and uncreated light of God without end.

That, by the way, isn't a rejection of the science; if the Parousia never happens then yes the sun would run out of fuel and then expand into a red giant engulfing all the inner planets before shrinking into a white dwarf. What I'm saying is that if, as Christianity confesses, God is going to bring the entire created order into His own Divinity then that wouldn't happen because the universe itself has changed--no longer decay and destruction.

What all of that may ultimately look like is far beyond what Christian theology can say, but it is taken as an article of faith that God will make all things new and He Himself will fill the entire cosmos like light; the Creed and Holy Scripture call this the "Age to Come", world without end.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[zaksmummy]

Most of the prayers were recite start "Blessed are you, King of the Universe". I think that says it all.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

I'd love to know what his plan is for the rest of the universe, but speculation will get us nowhere!

If there is a God, and he created this universe, then his plan for the universe has to include it dying out. So basically, every planet with life on it out there in those billions of galaxies must have some similar redemption story.

 

[zaksmummy]

The simple answer is that we dont know.

But have you considered this - God created the rest of the universe so that He could look at it? Possibly it serves no other purpose than his and our enjoyment, and to show that he is great.

 

[bling]

If there is a God, and he created this universe, then his plan for the universe has to include it dying out. So basically, every planet with life on it out there in those billions of galaxies must have some similar redemption story.

How many golf ball size universes (that is the size befor the big bang) does God have and how hard is it to send another golf ball out into empty space?
How much time does God have to devote to us?

 

[drich0150]

My question is this; in this apocalypse, what happens to the rest of the Universe?

We are not told

We live in the middle of a galaxy in a universe of which there are over 100 billion other galaxies that we can observe. Surely God isn't going to scrap all of these other galaxies just because humans live on one planet?

Their is nothing in the bible that would indicate that He will.

It just seems a little narcissistic to me for humans to believe they have got God's undivided attention in such a staggeringly vast universe.

You have to ask why Humans have God's attention over that of Dogs or dolphins. It all depends on how the rest of creation was constructed.

Also, let's say God recreates just our earth. Eventually our sun will start to run out of energy, turn into a red giant and burn out all life on earth.

Who says?

Not just this, but the whole universe is set to die in trillions of years as stars die out and there are no more materials to make them with. What happens then?

Maybe you should ask the being who call the universe into existence when you see Him.

 

[aiki]

My question is this; in this apocalypse, what happens to the rest of the Universe?

The Bible doesn't say explicitly. It does say this, however:

2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

Is the apostle Peter speaking of all the universe here? I don't know. Its pretty plain, though, that the Earth is going to be destroyed by fire.

We live in the middle of a galaxy in a universe of which there are over 100 billion other galaxies that we can observe. Surely God isn't going to scrap all of these other galaxies just because humans live on one planet?

As a human you may give a value to the universe that I'm not sure God does. The universe seems to us so magnificent in its starry expansiveness and staggering in its dimensions, but to God it is simply something He has made. He brought it all into existence with but a word and could remove it from existence the same way. It is no great strain on Him to make a new universe, though it may seem an impossible feat to us.

I'm not saying God despises this universe we live in. And I'm not suggesting God will make an entirely new universe when Christ returns to bring our world to an end. But He could easily do so - if He wished.

It just seems a little narcissistic to me for humans to believe they have got God's undivided attention in such a staggeringly vast universe.

Okay. Well, that's what the Bible teaches us. But God looks upon us, not because we are worthy of His attention, but because He simply wishes to. Why does this make us narcissistic?

Also, let's say God recreates just our earth. Eventually our sun will start to run out of energy, turn into a red giant and burn out all life on earth.

Yes, heat death sucks! I suppose God will do what He must to accomplish His ends. If this means creating a new sun for our galaxy, what's the big deal. He's God, right?

Not just this, but the whole universe is set to die in trillions of years as stars die out and there are no more materials to make them with. What happens then?

See above.

Selah.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Is the apostle Peter speaking of all the universe here? I don't know. Its pretty plain, though, that the Earth is going to be destroyed by fire.

I suppose Peter (or whoever wrote that book) was almost right. Our sun is going to turn into a red giant one day, burning up all life on earth (if there's any still around at that time).

Yes, heat death sucks! I suppose God will do what He must to accomplish His ends. If this means creating a new sun for our galaxy, what's the big deal. He's God, right?

I have a problem with this notion, which is this; why couldn't God have gotten the universe right the first time he created it?

 

[aiki]

Yes, heat death sucks! I suppose God will do what He must to accomplish His ends. If this means creating a new sun for our galaxy, what's the big deal. He's God, right?
​

I have a problem with this notion, which is this; why couldn't God have gotten the universe right the first time he created it?

Well, what's "got it right" actually mean? How could you or any person on this globe have any real idea what "getting it right" would be? I mean, we are short-lived, largely ignorant specks staring out from our planet into the broad, dark unknown expanse of the universe. There is so much of it that remains a mystery to us! How, then, can anyone say, "God didn't get it right." Such an assertion, it seems to me, requires a level of knowledge that no human possesses. Perhaps God never intended this universe to be a permanent fixture. Perhaps the heat death we theorize about is precisely how God wished the universe to function. Who knows?

Selah.

 

[razeontherock]

If there is a God, and he created this universe, then his plan for the universe has to include it dying out.

You don't know that, not in the least.

 

[drich0150]

You don't know that, not in the least.

Indeed, how can know claim knowledge of the mind of God and not know if He exists?