Why do Native Americans serve in the US Military?

[GigageiTsula]

My question is this: How can a Native American serve a country that stole its land from their ancestors and that either forcibly removed or relentlessly slaughtered their ancestors? In all honesty, I have a problem with that. I feel the need for a disclaimer. So, here it is: *My Disclaimer: First and foremost, I want to say that I realize that this topic may upset some, even offend some, but neither one is my true intent. Please know that I'm honestly seeking resolution and peace of heart in this issue. I would like to discuss this because it has been a place of contemptment for me for some time now. I have found that I simply cannot resolve it on my own. I realize that I'm in dire need of Godly counsel and advice. Thank you, in advance, for your understanding and patience.*

I think a little background information about myself would be helpful, so those who read this will know where I'm coming from. I'm of Cherokee and Choctaw descent. My birth mother was full blood Cherokee, my father mixed blood Choctaw, Scottish, and Irish. I know I must look more like my father than my mother, because I have red hair, green eyes, and am fair skinned, and like most mixed blood NDNs, I inherited the genetic traits of high cheek bones and very thick hair. My real name is even an originated Cherokee name, which means "Clothed in Splendor". Despite my outward appearance, I'm full blood NDN in my heart. As anyone who personal knows me would know, I am very drawn to my NDN ancestry and heritage. I strive to learn all I can about my ancestry, heritage, and culture. I taught myself to speak Cherokee. I'm now teaching my 7 children to speak it as well. And I'm fully dedicated to preserving whatever I can regarding NDN languages, NDN culture, and NDN heritage. Now with all that said and done, I must admit that through all my soul searching and personal research on Indian ancestry, culture, and history, I have lost my desire to honor and respect America, and I will never get it back. I simply don't see it ever coming back, in all honesty.

Before I set out on my spiritual journey to discover who I am, where I came from, and who God created me to be (this is still an ongoing process, by the way), I was very patriotic. I honored America and its military, I felt proud to be an American, and I also celebrated the 4th of July, with no ill feelings toward this country. But now, I feel nothing but contempt toward America. After all I have learned, I cannot bring myself to honor it and respect it no longer. My conscience will not allow me to do either. I no longer celebrate the 4th of July. I no longer fly the American flag. However, out of respect for my husband, I didn't throw the American flag that we own in the trash. Quite honestly, I would have, if it had been up to me. I feel incredibly sickened when I think about the atrocities that were committed against the American NDNs before and after the birth of America. I honestly feel that the birth of America only brought death and destruction to the American NDNs. I wholeheartedly agree with Chief Black Kettle when he said that the white man were like locusts, devouring everything in his path. Anywhere we stand in this country is still stolen Indian land. I know that this fact doesn't bother many Americans, but it causes me great pain, guilt, and sadness. How can I honor America when I feel this way? And how can I resolve my objection to Native Americans serving in this nation's military? What say you? And please be nice to me. Thanks.

 

[GigageiTsula]

Please remember that it is not my intent to offend, or to be mean or disrespectful. I'm really struggling with this. As I said, please be nice to me. Thanks.

 

[ziggy29]

I guess I'd put it this way (part Shawnee here): Virtually no one alive in the country today bore responsibility for spreading smallpox, the Trail of Tears, Wounded Knee, the consistent breaking of treaties to grab land. Yes, my country committed some horrible wrongs that very few decent people would defend today. But the worst of these were mostly over 100 years old. Anything we did today would be punishing the sons for the sins of their fathers.

I really don't know that there is any realistic way to make amends for the wrongs of the past. Clearly having all the "white men" pack up and go back to Europe isn't feasible. What's done is, very sadly, done and can't be undone. The best we can do (I think) is move on, create awareness, and perhaps make sure people understand some of the root causes of poverty, addiction and unemployment in Indian Country -- to help alleviate some of the current conditions that are an aftereffect of inhumane policies of centuries past. And I think that's a more positive and productive use of my time than hating my country for what it did to some of my people many, many years ago.

 

[bsd31]

I'll answer your question but first this is on my heart and far more important.

You have a lot of unforgiveness in your heart, Gigagei Tsula. Without question wrongs have been committed. But as a Christian your duty to the Lord is to forgive those who have trespassed against you. That is a duty that all of us bear.

I'm Jewish by blood, should I be bitter against the Germans for what they did to my people? Should I be bitter against the Russians whom half of my family had to flee right into the arms of the waiting Nazi's? I'm a Christian by faith, should I be bitter against the Italians for what their ancestors did to other Christians? Of course not! Nowhere in the Scripture is it even suggested that we should carry a grudge. Especially not for something that we personally had nothing to do with.

I implore you instead of seeking Godly counsel from men to give you reasons that natives should serve in the US military seek God's counsel to heal the anger in your heart.

As to your question -

Peoples from every race, religion and creed serve in the United States military. Some do it to get some training, some for college money, some because they have no other desires, some because they believe in what America is even with our bloody and blemished history. But most importantly they do it because they are honorable men and women who realize that what we have today as Americans is to be cherished. It's not perfect, many atrocities have been committed, but America is without a doubt better than any other separate cultures we all came from.

You might think I'm a flag waving automaton but I am not. I don't fly any flags because I believe it is an idol that people worship. There are many things America as a government has done and continues to do that I'm completely against. But I'm not foolish enough to believe that if we just set things back to how they were we'd be magically better off. That there would peace and harmony among the tribes or that all would somehow be right with the world.

 

[GigageiTsula]

You are right, my friend. I do have a lot unforgiveness in my heart that I struggle with everyday. But I don't know how to let it go, because it keeps rearing its ugly head whenever I think of what I have learned about my ancestry, heritage, and especially NDN history. It frustrates me to no end that so many non-natives Americans don't give a darn about what this nation did to the American NDNs or to any other minority race to gain land and power in this country. Look at Hawaii, more stolen land. It's unbelievable just how many non-native Americans I have encountered who either don't care or insist none of it matters anymore, just water under the bridge. They refuse to acknowledge all the atrocities committed against the American NDNs or agaisnt other races. And then the same people turn around and complain about illegal immigrants or how the government can take someone's land by force. Such hypocrisy, IMO.

I have prayed about this over and over and over again, but the pain, sadness, and anger are still in my heart. I have to remind myself not to feed my anger with such thoughts, but it is very difficult for me to do. And that is why I started this thread. I know that as a Christian I shouldn't feel this way. I know I need to forgive just as God has forgiven me. But it's so much easier said than done. I don't know what to do. It's so incredibly disheartening to me.

 

[Etsi]

Look at it this way, Nia, you are not just NDN. You are also several other things. Like me, that includes a Celtic history. The combination of these things are what make you who you are today. Look further back in history...land was stolen and stolen again. Over and over. People were always called savages by the victors (even when much of the time, the victors proved to be savages...you'll see so much of this in the history of the British Isles). We come from a heritage of being the underdog, the slaves and servants, the warriors, the so-called savages, the people that had a special spirituality that set the foundation for receiving true Christianity (as it was originally brought to them), etc. There are so many similarities between the Celts and the NA's (no wonder they mixed well here in America, eh?). This land is OURS. Regardless what government is in power, we fight to protect our homeland, not just our current government (most military personnel don't agree with much in the government as they see things from a different perspective). That loyalty to our homeland is in our blood, just as the drums make our spirit come alive and the Celtic song makes our souls sing, just as we can stand in a mountain mist and feel things that people elsewhere would never understand...it's there in us. I've had bagpipes send shivers through my soul and make me cry and I've been to powwow and the drums spoke to me in such a way that it took everything I had to keep my feet from joining the dancers (I don't have acceptable dress for it, let alone a blanket). I'm from South Carolina lowlands. I was away from home for almost 30yrs. I went back, spent the night at my dad's, and snuck outside early the next morning. I was in awe that I recognised the soil...it's like no other. I remembered the ants. The smell in the air was one I had tried to place all my missing years and it was THERE. That is why our people join the military. OUR people saved many men during the world wars with our forbidden languages. OUR people saved people that hated us with our ability to feed them and teach them how to feed themselves. OUR people taught many. Things that our people have always believed are finally making inroads in society through civil rights movements, etc...we believed it FIRST. This is our country...I don't care who thinks they are in charge.

 

[bsd31]

You are right, my friend. I do have a lot unforgiveness in my heart that I struggle with everyday. But I don't know how to let it go, because it keeps rearing its ugly head whenever I think of what I have learned about my ancestry, heritage, and especially NDN history. It frustrates me to no end that so many non-natives Americans don't give a darn about what this nation did to the American NDNs or to any other minority race to gain land and power in this country. Look at Hawaii, more stolen land. It's unbelievable just how many non-native Americans I have encountered who either don't care or insist none of it matters anymore, just water under the bridge. They refuse to acknowledge all the atrocities committed against the American NDNs or agaisnt other races. And then the same people turn around and complain about illegal immigrants or how the government can take someone's land by force. Such hypocrisy, IMO.

I have prayed about this over and over and over again, but the pain, sadness, and anger are still in my heart. I have to remind myself not to feed my anger with such thoughts, but it is very difficult for me to do. And that is why I started this thread. I know that as a Christian I shouldn't feel this way. I know I need to forgive just as God has forgiven me. But it's so much easier said than done. I don't know what to do. It's so incredibly disheartening to me.

I will certainly be praying for you.

I'm not going to try and justify anything about it to you because it's probably the last thing you need to hear right now.

I will say that in the end God will recreate the heavens and the earth, all things will be made new. When that happens there will be no cultures or traditions or tribes or conquests or even remembrance of those things. They all will be utterly consumed in the furnace that is God's wrath.

 

[timatter]

Why would a Native American serve a country that did those things? Between 1983 and 1987 I was in the army and for about two years my fellow tank crewmember was a Lakota Soux from the Pine Ridge Reservation, South Dakota. I don't remember if he ever said why he joined, but for me (German Anscestry), It was economic. I met the girl I wanted to marry, and in 1982 there were no jobs, but I knew I had a rich uncle (Uncle Sam) who would hire me, so that's what I did. I used it to get out of a worse situation, and have been working ever since. There is a good chance he joined for the same reasons because I'm sure the ecomomy is worse on reservations.
I'm sure some join for patriotic reasons. Even considering what happened in the past, they feel this is their country, warts and all. If you can get the movie "WindTalkers" on DVD, one of the special features is some interviews of the actual people who served during WWII and you can see how they thought.
About forgiveness: Doesn't the person have to be sorry for what they did and ask your forgiveness for you to be obligated to forgive them? I don't think forcing people to say they forgive the other, before they really do forgive them is helpful. You can imagine playground scenes where the mother makes one kid say "I'm sorry" to another, when you know they really don't mean it. I'll write more tomorrow if it's OK.

 

[bsd31]

Why would a Native American serve a country that did those things? Between 1983 and 1987 I was in the army and for about two years my fellow tank crewmember was a Lakota Soux from the Pine Ridge Reservation, South Dakota. I don't remember if he ever said why he joined, but for me (German Anscestry), It was economic. I met the girl I wanted to marry, and in 1982 there were no jobs, but I knew I had a rich uncle (Uncle Sam) who would hire me, so that's what I did. I used it to get out of a worse situation, and have been working ever since. There is a good chance he joined for the same reasons because I'm sure the ecomomy is worse on reservations.
I'm sure some join for patriotic reasons. Even considering what happened in the past, they feel this is their country, warts and all. If you can get the movie "WindTalkers" on DVD, one of the special features is some interviews of the actual people who served during WWII and you can see how they thought.
About forgiveness: Doesn't the person have to be sorry for what they did and ask your forgiveness for you to be obligated to forgive them? I don't think forcing people to say they forgive the other, before they really do forgive them is helpful. You can imagine playground scenes where the mother makes one kid say "I'm sorry" to another, when you know they really don't mean it. I'll write more tomorrow if it's OK.

For a Christian no. We offer forgiveness regardless if someone "deserves" it or asks for it or whatever. If they respond and accept it, great! But regardless we emulate Christ and offer it without condition.

 

[GigageiTsula]

timatter, I don't have the movie Wind Talkers. I refused to see it when it came out. Maybe I should reconsider my decision. And as a Christian, I know I need to forgive others because God forgave me in Christ. That's a command that I must take seriously. Thanks for your response. I look forward to more of what you have to say here, my friend. And welcome to the Indigenous Peoples forum.

 

[timatter]

I have CodeTalkers in now. Maybe you won't like it. Parts are very violent. Nicholas Cage is assigned to protect his Codetalker from being captured at all cost and if necessary to kill him to keep the Japanese from getting the code. Cage grows to respect him more during the movie. In the end it is Cage who dies.
I can't find the interviews I thought I saw, but one of the special features (On the DVD version I have) has a couple of the Navaho's who were advisors during the making of the film, talking to each other about various things through the whole movie. You can get some insight into their thinking.
I was in Germany in 1983 talking to a young German soldier and he was ashamed of what his country did to the Jews. I kept thinking that he had nothing to be ashamed of because it all happened before he was born and he had no part in, or control over what happened. Even if he was the most righteous person in the world, he had no way of stopping what happened, it was past history.
Do you know, are you more angry because what happened, happened, or because we don't know and don't care about it? I think Americans have a short memory. I think there is a lot of truth in the saying "Those who don't learn from history, are doomed to repeat it". There is a saying about Afghanistan: it is where empires go to die. Yikes. Think about that. And the reasons for invading there are much better than the reasons we went into Iraq.

 

[Satt]

The reason Native American's are willing to work in the military is the same reason black people are willing to be waiters where white people eat...IT PAYS THE BILLS!!!

Edit: I didn't mean to offend. I didn't see the part where you said to be nice to you. I hope you can overcome your struggles. I was trying to be silly.

 

[GigageiTsula]

*

 

[Speculative]

Look at Ben Nighthorse Campbell. He's a USAF vet who got his college education with the GI Bill and then went on to be a congressman and Senator, Olympian, Sheriff, teacher and business owner.

In the process, he gained a massive amount of respect and influence to actually make positive changes. He would have gotten none of this if he'd have sat around wallowing in a past that nobody could change.

 

[GigageiTsula]

*

 

[timatter]

There is no chance of getting it all back. There is a better chance of getting some smaller gains. Even if they did return your land, they would soon take most of it anyway. Make you pay income tax at the highest rate (Near 50%) on its fair market value. Then property tax at 2% to 5% of its market value every year. If I ever win the lottery, I figure I'll get to keep about 1/4 of it. I'll lose half if I take it all in one payment the first year, instead of 20 yearly payments. And I'll lose half of what's left to taxes.

 

[GigageiTsula]

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[timatter]

"I know there's chance of us getting our land back, not without a lot of bloodshed." You don't have enough people. That was the problem since soon after Europeans landed. Then the diseases that decimated them years before, and their population rebounded from, decimated you at the time you needed more people.
You can blame us for all of the willful acts like giving you smallpox infected blankets, but I think for the most part, we didn't even know we were doing it. I think the germ theory of disease is less than 150 years old. There is a story about Louis Pasteur trying to figure out why so many women and babies were dying in the hospital soon after giving birth. The poor women who had to have their children at home had a much higher survival rate than those who could afford doctors. The doctors would do autopsies, trying to figure out what was killing the women, then they would deliver another baby without sterilizing their hands. It wasn't until one of the Dr.s accidentally cut himself during an autopsy and soon died of the same symptoms as the mothers, that Pasteur got the idea of germs and told the Dr's to scrub their hands. The Dr.s thought he was crazy and refused, and many more women died until he was finally proven right.
"We have a worthless, deceiving, and corrupt government." Yes, but there are worse ones too. Mexico, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iraq, most of Africa. It seems like the Sheeple don't want to hear the truth. The politicians lie to them, promise them things, they like what they hear and vote for them, all the while knowing most of it will never happen. Right now all of the Republican candidates are trying to out-Christian each other, and the sheeple eat it up. What do you think Rick Perry's prayer rally was really about? Getting support to beat the other republicans in his run to be their presidential candidate.

 

[Rion]

I guess he's one of the lucky ones then. Good for him, maybe he can fight to get our land back and force the US government to honor the over 400 treaties it broke with the sovereign NDN Nations before and after the so-called founding of this "great" nation.

I know there's NO (edited) chance of us getting our land back, not without a lot of bloodshed. We have a worthless, deceiving, and corrupt government. It has always been that way since its inception. The United States of America has been corrupt and racist since its inception.

I am not trying to be offensive either, but it sounds like you need serious help. Definitely spiritually, and possibly mentally. I don't say that to insult or belittle you, it's just my (unprofessional) opinion. It sounds like you want to go to war and kill people who have done nothing to you except possibly be descended from people who did your own ancestors wrong. Or at least, you wouldn't mind that happening.

I'm of mixed heritage, like yourself, but my dad's side of the family didn't even get over here until the 1920's and 1930's. There's ton who are descended from like individuals. Do you know what that means? It means that you wouldn't even have the flimsy excuse of their ancestry. The only reason you'd be waging war on them is because of the unfortunate color of their skin and where they happened to be born. What about black Americans? Are they your enemy? Their ancestors (in most cases) did not ask to be brought here.

Now, what of people like ourselves? If you ever had a war, who would be allowed to be counted among you? Would you go by purity? Or would having their name on the rolls be good enough? I knew a girl in college who was 1/128th. She didn't have a trace of Choctaw in her looks, but she was on the rolls. Would she be too "impure" for your new country?

You may say you don't mean it that way, but that's what you're saying when it comes to fighting a war to get your land back... and I do mean your land. I'm an American, and I acknowledge what this country has done, right and wrong, but it doesn't mean the ideas that founded it are any less worth striving for.

I would seriously recommend that you seek guidance from your pastor or someone in your church, and possibly find a good Christian councilor to talk to as well. If you don't do it for your sake, do it for your kids. You may not realize it, but you're teaching them to hate, and the world doesn't need any more of that.

 

[Tatanka_Maza]

We love our country, and we love our People. Our government is NOT our Country, they are two separate things entirely. When our country is threatened, we are bound by duty and honor to step up and defend it. It is something that is deeply ingrained in most of our cultures.