Why doesnt creationism need any data?

[AV1611VET]

Does our eternal existence hang on our theory of how we did?

Does ours?

 

[Belk]

Does our eternal existence hang on our theory of how we did?

Only if you are a "Moonie".

Kind of dating myself here I know.

 

[AV1611VET]

Of course I can sleep at night not knowing how we got our moon.

Fair enough -- then I'll take this:

If you don't want to find out the truth because you feel that you might not like the truth then that's a different matter all together.

... with a grain of salt.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

Fair enough -- then I'll take this:

... with a grain of salt.

Every time you say "...with a grain of salt," I hear "I'll accept anything so long as it doesn't conflict with my beliefs. Which is to say, I'm afraid of what might be true, because my beliefs might be wrong.

 

[Non sequitur]

Does ours?

I thought your belief dictates where you spend your eternity, unlike whatever moon theory someone has.

The consequences of not believing the two are not even remotely similar, so I'm not sure why you are asking about any moon theory or what similarities you are trying to draw from them...

 

[hasone]

Every time you say "...with a grain of salt," I hear "I'll accept anything so long as it doesn't conflict with my beliefs. Which is to say, I'm afraid of what might be true, because my beliefs might be wrong.

He could (and probably has, in the past), make the point that your beliefs lead you to accept science, and that you will reject anything that conflicts with those beliefs. I'm not talking about your belief in evolution, but beliefs you may have such as "the laws of physics were the same 6000 years ago as they are now."

I find your stance to be very reasonable, but he would be correct in pointing out that you hold beliefs that you are not currently willing to change despite the evidence, because those beliefs are central to your interpretation of the evidence.

It's the same with him. I would wager that he will see the same evidence as you and interpret it differently due to different core beliefs. And as far as I can tell, his belief system is self-consistent. Impossible to do much of science with? Yes. But still self-consistent.

 

[SkyWriting]

No human endeavor is perfect. That includes science and biblical interpretation.
OK, then how about no legitimate data?

Didn't you notice that a number of those "proofs" were easy to research and check yourself? Why would you trust somebody elses data when you could check on your own? That's one of the Scientific methods....to repeat the observations.

Anti-creationists are the least scientific of them all.
All hot air.

 

[Non sequitur]

Anti-creationists are the least scientific of them all.
All hot air.

Anti-creationists are the "least scientific", because creationism can't be tested?

 

[BondiHarry]

None has ever been presented to support it.

im curious why the believers dont need any.

They'd surely need some before investing in a get rich scheme.

Or if they are told their kid committed a crime.

Or that the roof needs replacing.

Why not for creationism?

I suspect you'll hate this answer but "the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:14)

When God is involved in your life, making dramatic changes in you that you could never change yourself you tend to believe Him when He says He created the heavens and the earth; you don't put your hand up and say "prove it".

 

[Non sequitur]

I suspect you'll hate this answer but "the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:14)

When God is involved in your life, making dramatic changes in you that you could never change yourself you tend to believe Him when He says He created the heavens and the earth; you don't put your hand up and say "prove it".

If your god doesn't want to, for whatever reason(s), I don't see how your god would expect me to just accept anything, much less his very existence.

 

[British Bulldog]

I suspect you'll hate this answer but "the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:14)

When God is involved in your life, making dramatic changes in you that you could never change yourself you tend to believe Him when He says He created the heavens and the earth; you don't put your hand up and say "prove it".

I always wonder how people who think God is involved in their lives don't ever stop and consider where God was in the lives of all the millions who died in extermination camps in World War Two. Or in the lives of the countless other millions who have been killed by plagues or disease or famine. All the millions and millions of people who must have begged their God to help them and who God ignored.

How come God actively involves himself in your life and yet did nothing for any of them?

 

[BondiHarry]

If your god doesn't want to, for whatever reason(s), I don't see how your god would expect me to just accept anything, much less his very existence.

"No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:44)

We are all sinners and Jesus went to the cross and died for those sins and is the author of salvation for all those who obey Him. God however is not under any obligation to save anyone He doesn't want to. You obviously are not seeking Him ("I love them that love me; and those that seek me <early> shall find me") and He isn't drawing you to Him. I wonder what it means if God decides not to draw someone to Himself?

 

[SkyWriting]

Let's not beat about the bush here, you want to believe creationism is true so any website out there that agrees with what you want to believe you will take as being the truth, you would never check things out for yourself, you want to believe that if they put it on their website then it's the gospel truth even though it's ALL complete rubbish.

That is the reality in your mind. It doesn't match my methods a bit. If you were paying attention, you'd know that creationist publishing was exactly what the challenge was:

Originally Posted by Hespera None has ever been presented to support it.

I usually link to mainstream science sites, and detractors shut their mouths very fast.
No conversation goes deader, faster than when I cover creation topics and support them with links to science sites.
So if you have a particular issue...fire away.

Of course I can sleep at night not knowing how we got our moon. What's wrong with saying we don't know yet. Why would you expect someone to make a claim to knowledge without sufficient support? We'll leave the unsupportable claims to religionists.

Thanks. God would appreciate that.

Not sure how this, in any way, means that science says astronauts should not be able to go to the moon... ?

Man stopped going to the moon precisely because science was stumped.
(The lack of any cheese, water, gold dust, or diamonds also played a role.)
It provided little support for any easy theory on it's origin.
The mystery of it leaned more toward the biblical explanation
than any other they could come up with. So we stopped gathering
data and looked to other planets for signs of spontaneous life.
None found there either. Watch the religionist-sciences as they keep
searching for life to bolster their wacky idea that life is a natural event.
Looking for excuses.
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Every time you say "...with a grain of salt," I hear "I'll accept anything so long as it doesn't conflict with my beliefs. Which is to say, I'm afraid of what might be true, because my beliefs might be wrong.

The reason you hear that is that it matches the voice in your own head.
Why else come to this forum other than to quiet your own arguments?
Matthew 26:59 The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for false evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death.

God didn't write any book. Men wrote the books of The Bible. If God wrote them, there would be no need for Christian Apologetics.

There is no logical flow here.
But if there was....you need to deal directly with this line:
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

The theory with the most support right now, is the impact theory. Yes, I sleep fine, not knowing for sure if it is correct. The one that certainly is not correct is the: "God stuck the moon in the firmament as a night light" theory.

It's poor form to incorrectly quote.
Genesis 1:14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years,
Actually, that only says why.

Does our eternal existence hang on our theory of how we did?

Maybe.
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

 

[Non sequitur]

"No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:44)

That didn't address expectations and my question.

We are all sinners and Jesus went to the cross and died for those sins and is the author of salvation for all those who obey Him. God however is not under any obligation to save anyone He doesn't want to.

"He is not under any obligation to save anyone he doesn't want to."

Yes, I agree with that. He makes the choice to save people or not.

You obviously are not seeking Him ("I love them that love me; and those that seek me <early> shall find me") and He isn't drawing you to Him.

How do you know this? Did he tell you that I was not?

I wonder what it means if God decides not to draw someone to Himself?

That he doesn't care to help one of "his children"?

All responses to that question would paint your god in an unloving light...

 

[Non sequitur]

Maybe.
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Maybe?!

Our eternal existence hangs on the truth of how we got on on our moon?

 

[BondiHarry]

I always wonder how people who think God is involved in their lives don't ever stop and consider where God was in the lives of all the millions who died in extermination camps in World War Two. Or in the lives of the countless other millions who have been killed by plagues or disease or famine

What makes you think we don't stop and consider where God was?

All the millions and millions of people who must have begged their God to help them and who God ignored.

How do you know God ignored them?

How come God actively involves himself in your life and yet did nothing for any of them?

You are making assumptions from a carnal point of view. In the spiritual view of things our mortal lives are not nearly as important as the mortal life is to the unbeliever. My goals in this life are to follow Jesus, live in holiness and to be a light to the world. Just because someone is oppressed, jailed, impoverished or killed doesn't mean that God is doing nothing for that person. People have come to Christ because of the steadfast faith of Christian martyrs who would not worship Caesar or refused to disobey God although called to do so by authorities in corrupted churches and so forth. A follower of Christ knows that God will not give us a burden too hard to bear. Even dying is not too heavy a burden as we will be with Jesus after this mortal life is done.

There is also the matter that men reap what they sow. If people choose to reject God and live in wickedness it is not a shortcoming of God if He doesn't prevent the repercussions of their evil to visit them. They didn't want God in their lives, He oblidged them and then they curse Him because He did what they had demanded.

 

[British Bulldog]

What makes you think we don't stop and consider where God was?



How do you know God ignored them?



You are making assumptions from a carnal point of view. In the spiritual view of things our mortal lives are not nearly as important as the mortal life is to the unbeliever. My goals in this life are to follow Jesus, live in holiness and to be a light to the world. Just because someone is oppressed, jailed, impoverished or killed doesn't mean that God is doing nothing for that person. People have come to Christ because of the steadfast faith of Christian martyrs who would not worship Caesar or refused to disobey God although called to do so by authorities in corrupted churches and so forth. A follower of Christ knows that God will not give us a burden too hard to bear. Even dying is not too heavy a burden as we will be with Jesus after this mortal life is done.

There is also the matter that men reap what they sow. If people choose to reject God and live in wickedness it is not a shortcoming of God if He doesn't prevent the repercussions of their evil to visit them. They didn't want God in their lives, He oblidged them and then they curse Him because He did what they had demanded.

So God is strictly non-interventionist. Which makes prayer futile. Unless of course you think all the misery, suffering, pain and death in the world is all deserved.

But none of this matters because only the spiritual matters. This worries me as I don't think I can trust anyone who might be capable of interpreting plain suffering as beneficial for one's soul. This is where faith in beliefs that have no evidence to support them runs headlong into blindness to the real world around them.

 

[SkyWriting]

I always wonder how people who think God is involved in their lives don't ever stop and consider where God was in the lives of all the millions who died in extermination camps in World War Two. Or in the lives of the countless other millions who have been killed by plagues or disease or famine. All the millions and millions of people who must have begged their God to help them and who God ignored.How come God actively involves himself in your life and yet did nothing for any of them?

Commonly this complaint comes from people who don't do any community work of their own and wish some entity did all the compassion work for them. Because people who do, rarely have this complaint.

 

[SkyWriting]

So God is strictly non-interventionist. Which makes prayer futile. Unless of course you think all the misery, suffering, pain and death in the world is all deserved. But none of this matters because only the spiritual matters. This worries me as I don't think I can trust anyone who might be capable of interpreting plain suffering as beneficial for one's soul. This is where faith in beliefs that have no evidence to support them runs headlong into blindness to the real world around them.

Let the weak die so there is more food for me.
That's what I learned in biology class.
I don't know how more real world it needs to be.
Are you abandoning Darwin now?
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/575460/survival-of-the-fittest

 

[Non sequitur]

Commonly this complaint comes from people who don't do any community work of their own and wish some entity did all the compassion work for them. Because people who do, rarely have this complaint.

I'd love to see those statistics about the people who do.

Commonly that response comes from people who don't know whether people do or do not do any community work.


Either way, it doesn't invalidate it.