if Harry Potter were real he would be going to hell

[suzybeezy]

In our culture today there is so much ungodly desensitizing that is occurring with our youth, and a wise Christian parent should pay close attention to what they allow their children to be exposed to. For example, my child and I went to see The Princess and the Frog and there was a lot of black magic in it (which I wasn't aware was going to be in it). My child looked at me and said "mom this doesn't feel right, I think we should leave" - I agreed and we left. My child said "I think we just made Jesus very proud of us" - what a great moment for a parent! I'm glad we've raised our children with learning to discern between what is Godly and what is of darkness. Cultivating this in their young hearts will serve them well as they grow and face more of the enemy coming at them on a daily basis.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Well first off, when delving into the Bible, we have to look at context. Are the wizards in the Bible the same as the fictional wizards who attend Hogwarts?

Did the Bible wizards have wands? Honestly, I don't know, but I'll assume not, until you can show me otherwise.

Did the Bible wizards ride brooms? Again, I don't think so, but feel free to prove me wrong.,,,*snip*

Not unless you count a staff as a type of wand

Rotherham) Exodus 7:9 When Pharaoh shall speak unto you saying, Shew for yourselves a wonder, then shalt thou say unto Aaron, Take thy staff, and cast it down before Pharaoh let it become a sea-serpent.
10 So Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and did so as Yahweh had commanded,--and Aaron cast down his staff before Pharaoh and before his servants and it became a sea-serpent,
11 Then called Pharaoh also for the wise men and for the magicians,--and they too, the sacred scribes of Egypt with their secret arts, did in like manner;
12 yea they cast down each man his staff, and they became sea-serpents,--but Aaron's staff swallowed up their staves.

‪So Let It Be Written‬‏ - YouTube

 

[Bubblies]

Good point. But clearly, the wand (or staff) doesn't make one evil. ;-)

 

[God's Word]

Originally Posted by God's Word

First of all, THE BIBLE condemns wizardry of any sort. IOW, there is no such thing as "good wizardry". If you don't like this fact, then that is your problem and not mine.
​

I never said there was such a thing as good wizardry. I said the Harry Potter books were about good vs. evil. You wrote on page 13, post # 128:

The Harry Potter books are not stories about "good vs. evil", but rather stories about GOOD WIZARDRY (as if there really is such a thing...THERE ISN'T) vs. BAD WIZARDRY.

You're projecting your own statement onto me and asking me to provide evidence of good wizardry. LOL There is more going on in the books than wizards and witches casting spells. I don't have a problem, I've read the books, seen the movies and have moved on. You haven't moved on. Sounds to me like you're the one with issues here. Also you should really change your SN, since you're not God's Word.

Leviticus 19:31

"Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God."

Leviticus 20:6

"And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a-whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people."

Leviticus 20:27

"A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them."

Deuteronomy 18:9-12

"When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee."

I Samuel 28:3, 9

"Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land...And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?"

II Kings 21:6 (see also II Chronicles 33:6)

"And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger."

II Kings 23:24-25

"Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the LORD. And like unto him was there no king before him, that turned to the LORD with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; neither after him arose there any like him."

Isaiah 8:19

"And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?"

Isaiah 19:3-4

"And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards. And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the LORD, the LORD of hosts."

As far as I know, this is an exhaustive list of all the times that wizards are mentioned in the Bible. What have we learned?

1. That we're not to seek after wizards because they defile.

2. That God will set His face against those who seek after wizards and cut them off from among His people.

3. That wizards were stoned to death.

4. That we're not to learn the ABOMINATIONS of the wizards for which God was driving them out of the land.

5. That wizards were put out of the land.

6. That those who seek wizards do much wickedness in the sight of the LORD and provoke Him to anger.

7. That the one who seeks the LORD with all of his heart, soul and might puts away wizards from the land.

8. That people shouldn't seek wizards, but that they should seek their God.

9. That when God destroys the counsel of a nation, they seek wizards.

Okay...your turn. Show me some of this "good wizardry" that I keep on hearing about. Come on. Folks like you insist that Harry Potter is a "good wizard" who's fighting the battle of "good vs. evil". Show me where God calls any sort of wizardry "good". I won't be holding my breath.

Secondly, although "my past", or my own experiences with demons and those who have actually been involved in witchcraft, is a factor here, "my past" is also a genuine reflection of what PRESENTLY EXISTS in this world. IOW, there are still demons in this world and there are still practioners of magic, so what's your point...other than to possibly deflect the true nature of the argument from God's Word (The Bible) to God's Word (me)?
​

How can I show you examples of something I've never said? Folks like me insist? Fine, go talk to them. I never said what you think I did, so you're mistaken. I didn't say God called any form of wizardry good. Why don't you address what I've actually written instead of what you mistakenly think I've written? Yeah there are still demons, so what? My point is that reading a Harry Potter book or seeing a Harry Potter movie does not equal what the Scriptures you've quoted here are forbidding. That's my point. Did you get it that time or do you need it explained to you a different way?

You never said that there was good wizardry? Well, what would you call this:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7578695-6/#post58060473

Originally Posted by A New Dawn

So says the guy with the R2D2 avatar, where some outside force compelled people to use light sabres to defeat or kill their enemy.

Harry Potter's world is an alternate reality where magic and Christianity coexisted in harmony and that magic was a tool not a religion. In fact, the witches and wizards in HP (the good ones) were Christians.
​

How do you know the good witches and wizards in HP were Christians?

???

You didn't question New Dawn's claim that there were "good wizards" in Harry Potter, did you? No, you did not. You simply asked how New Dawn knew that the "good wizards" were Christians. There's also this:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7578695-14/#post58066880

Originally Posted by God's Word

And THIS is where you're terribly wrong. The Harry Potter books are not stories about "good vs. evil", but rather stories about GOOD WIZARDRY (as if there really is such a thing...THERE ISN'T) vs. BAD WIZARDRY. According to God's Word (not me, but the Bible), ALL WIZARDRY IS BAD AND CONDEMNED.
​

It is about good vs evil, but because of your past, anything that has anything to do with wizardry is bad. Your projecting bad past experiences onto something that is not in and of itself bad.

You said that because of my past, "anything that has anything to do with wizardry is bad". Wouldn't this imply that you believe that some things about wizardry are "good"? Sure, it would. You made this more obvious when you went on to say that I was projecting my bad experiences onto something "that is not in and of itself bad". This, too, implies that you believe that there is such a thing as "good wizardry", so I'm not the least bit mistaken in what I said. Just for the record.

Now, do you have any scriptures to back up your position or not? I didn't think so.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Good point. But clearly, the wand (or staff) doesn't make one evil. ;-)

I would say that is correct

‪SpaceBalls Schwartz Fight‬‏ - YouTube

 

[Zecryphon]

You never said that there was good wizardry? Well, what would you call this:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7578695-6/#post58060473

Originally Posted by Zecryphon

Originally Posted by A New Dawn

So says the guy with the R2D2 avatar, where some outside force compelled people to use light sabres to defeat or kill their enemy.

Harry Potter's world is an alternate reality where magic and Christianity coexisted in harmony and that magic was a tool not a religion. In fact, the witches and wizards in HP (the good ones) were Christians.
​

How do you know the good witches and wizards in HP were Christians?
​

???

You didn't question New Dawn's claim that there were "good wizards" in Harry Potter, did you? No, you did not. You simply asked how New Dawn knew that the "good wizards" were Christians.

So what? Still doesn't mean I used the term "good wizardry."

There's also this:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7578.../#post58066880

Originally Posted by Zecryphon

Originally Posted by God's Word

And THIS is where you're terribly wrong. The Harry Potter books are not stories about "good vs. evil", but rather stories about GOOD WIZARDRY (as if there really is such a thing...THERE ISN'T) vs. BAD WIZARDRY. According to God's Word (not me, but the Bible), ALL WIZARDRY IS BAD AND CONDEMNED.
​

It is about good vs evil, but because of your past, anything that has anything to do with wizardry is bad. Your projecting bad past experiences onto something that is not in and of itself bad.
​

You said that because of my past, "anything that has anything to do with wizardry is bad". Wouldn't this imply that you believe that some things about wizardry are "good"?

No. It means that once again your projecting your bad experiences onto the Harry Potter books and judging the books through that lens. The HP books are not evil in and of themselves. They are books that tell a story. There's nothing inherently evil in that.

Sure, it would. You made this more obvious when you went on to say that I was projecting my bad experiences onto something "that is not in and of itself bad". This, too, implies that you believe that there is such a thing as "good wizardry", so I'm not the least bit mistaken in what I said. Just for the record.

This is ridiculous. Show me the post where I used the term "good wizardry." That term first appeared on page 13, in post # 128, which was not written by me. So you are mistaken.

Now, do you have any scriptures to back up your position or not? I didn't think so.

It's obvious you can't understand what I post, because if you could you would never make the demand that I should support what "good wizardry" is, when I never used the term. The witchcraft in Harry Potter is not the same as what is condemned in the Bible. I don't need Scripture to prove that. Anyone who can read can see that. Oh and if you're going to go ahead and answer questions you ask me, there's really no point in talking to you anymore, is there?

 

[frankleespeaking]

You are ignoring this fact and you're also not producing any facts to back up your statements. So now your next brilliant move is to move the goal posts. Can't convince anyone here, who isn't already on your side, that Harry Potter is Satanic, so now you're going to kiddie porn. Unbelievable. There would be a problem with producing those images because it can cause people to act upon their sinful temptations, pedophiles mainly. That danger isn't present in the Harry Potter books because in the books you're not looking at pictures designed to produce a reaction or emotion, you're reading a story about good vs. evil, pretty much. People who are actually involved in witchcraft are not there because they did a spell from a Harry Potter book. You've claimed this has happened, but you have yet to produce any evidence to support this.

You can beg to differ all you want. You really don't want to debate me on anything and I'll tell you why, because all you can do is make one ridiculous claim after another and produce no evidence to support any of your claims. I've produced evidence already in this thread that destroys your statement that occult books are flying off the book shelves. Do you have any evidence that we can examine that proves your claims about Harry Potter to be true? Yes or no? I'm going with no, because if you did have it, we would be able to examine it. All you have is opinion, and a past. I've heard it and now I'm ignoring it. You've got nothing but a bunch of sour grapes over your crappy past and want to take it out on Harry Potter.

Also, if Harry Potter was real, he'd be removed from the Dursley's home and placed in whatever system England has to take care of abused children. The Dursley's would be charged with child abuse and you would do nothing but yell at him about how Satanic he is and how he's going to hell. If Harry Potter were real, your heart should break for him, given your feelings about the occult, and you should want to show him why he needs Jesus Christ as his savior. You should be ashamed that you'd rather say Harry Potter is going to Hell than Harry Potter needs to know about Jesus. You're abandoning an explicit command of Christ given here:

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Given your atrocious behavior, I really don't think I'm the one that needs any light shed into my soul, least of all by you.

I'm sorry were you under the impression that I was debating this issue with you?......lol....no sir!.....just as I won't debate whether God exist or not, if you need proof look for it yourself, I think hollywood has a pretty good barometer for whats popular, and thats what they produce, simple statistics tell them whats hot and whats not, you don't want to believe Harry Potter is making occult popular, don't believe it! anyone in advertising is sure wasting their money if they believe you and your idea that media's such as books, movies, and music don't influence people one way or the other. That is extremely laughable, why is it the top fast food chains quickly produce toys for happy meals that coinside with popular movies, there's no correlation there huh! no one is influenced as to what food they buy, whether its commercials or documentaries, or books or movies, strange as this must be to you, but they influence people! this is just a fact, I don't need to provide you proof, budweiser wouldn't dish out the million dollar pricetag for a few seconds of airtime during a superbowl game if it didn't influence people to buy their product, have a little common sense will ya! mass media's influence people period! how did you ever become a Christian, you heard a story, it was a spiritual story and it influenced you in a way, that you began to believe in Jesus, the main Character in the story, at the very least it influenced you to put a Christian icon by your name, and post a few scriptures ones I wished you were more aware of following, Jesus is the word of God, God says witchcraft is evil........whats there to discuss? "teaching them to do all I commanded them" God commanded His people to have nothing to do with any of it.......now you want Christians to endorse what God clearly says He see's as detestable........"do as thou wilt" seems to be your motto

 

[LinuxUser]

It's interesting to find pharisee-ism alive and well in the 21st Century. Christians who are afraid of living so try to bind everyone to their legalism, Christians who are so scared they find the boggy man under every rock.

Life in abundance, not cowardice or fear of demons everyone is what Christ gives us.

 

[frankleespeaking]

In our culture today there is so much ungodly desensitizing that is occurring with our youth, and a wise Christian parent should pay close attention to what they allow their children to be exposed to. For example, my child and I went to see The Princess and the Frog and there was a lot of black magic in it (which I wasn't aware was going to be in it). My child looked at me and said "mom this doesn't feel right, I think we should leave" - I agreed and we left. My child said "I think we just made Jesus very proud of us" - what a great moment for a parent! I'm glad we've raised our children with learning to discern between what is Godly and what is of darkness. Cultivating this in their young hearts will serve them well as they grow and face more of the enemy coming at them on a daily basis.

"But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong." I have tears in my eyes that God blessed you with such a wise and insightful daughter. a true reflection on your parenting

 

[frankleespeaking]

lol i will wait with baited breath

Is that a prayer to an angel under the picture of one?......Wow! I bet your ready for holloween

 

[Zecryphon]

I'm sorry were you under the impression that I was debating this issue with you?......lol....no sir!.....just as I won't debate whether God exist or not, if you need proof look for it yourself, I think hollywood has a pretty good barometer for whats popular, and thats what they produce, simple statistics tell them whats hot and whats not, you don't want to believe Harry Potter is making occult popular, don't believe it!

I don't believe it and I don't see any proof from you to support your statements, therefore they are dismissed. I mean if you don't care enough to support what you say, why should I care?

anyone in advertising is sure wasting their money if they believe you and your idea that media's such as books, movies, and music don't influence people one way or the other. That is extremely laughable, why is it the top fast food chains quickly produce toys for happy meals that coinside with popular movies, there's no correlation there huh! no one is influenced as to what food they buy, whether its commercials or documentaries, or books or movies, strange as this must be to you, but they influence people! this is just a fact, I don't need to provide you proof, budweiser wouldn't dish out the million dollar pricetag for a few seconds of airtime during a superbowl game if it didn't influence people to buy their product, have a little common sense will ya! mass media's influence people period! how did you ever become a Christian, you heard a story, it was a spiritual story and it influenced you in a way, that you began to believe in Jesus, the main Character in the story, at the very least it influenced you to put a Christian icon by your name, and post a few scriptures ones I wished you were more aware of following, Jesus is the word of God, God says witchcraft is evil........whats there to discuss? "teaching them to do all I commanded them" God commanded His people to have nothing to do with any of it.......now you want Christians to endorse what God clearly says He see's a detestable........"do as thou wilt" seems to be your motto

I became a Christian by God's work, not man's. You should read Ephesians 2 sometime. That'll tell you how people are saved. I never said anything about Christians endorsing what God has forbidden. I'd ask you to provide evidence for that statement, but it seems you can't be bothered to do that.

You have no idea what my motto is, or if I even have one. So keep your projections about me to yourself and the only people wasting their time here are the ones who stop to read anything you say. I've wasted enough of my time here.

 

[Gnarwhal]

It's interesting to find pharisee-ism alive and well in the 21st Century. Christians who are afraid of living so try to bind everyone to their legalism, Christians who are so scared they find the boggy man under every rock.

Life in abundance, not cowardice or fear of demons everyone is what Christ gives us.

You'll find it in abundance on CF too, unfortunately. In the couple years that I've been a member here, I've noticed a sad reality: venues like this run the risk of fostering a lifestyle of fear, bibliolatry, illiteracy and isolation rather the intelligent discussion and edification it was designed for.

There's always hope though...

 

[frankleespeaking]

It's interesting to find pharisee-ism alive and well in the 21st Century. Christians who are afraid of living so try to bind everyone to their legalism, Christians who are so scared they find the boggy man under every rock.

Life in abundance, not cowardice or fear of demons everyone is what Christ gives us.

First of all its the "BOOGY" MAN and everyone knows he lives in closets not under rocks?????? and I suppose anyone who follows Christian values, will get your little pharisee label..... Catholics against legalism....thats kinda funny

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LinuxUser It's interesting to find pharisee-ism alive and well in the 21st Century

First of all its the "BOOGY" MAN and everyone knows he lives in closets not under rocks?????? and I suppose anyone who follows Christian values, will get your little pharisee label..... Catholics against legalism....thats kinda funny

Let's not go down that road again

http://www.christianforums.com/t5445935-14/#post35263889
For the Last Time, Roman Catholics Aren't the Pharisees!

 

[God's Word]

If anyone is interested, here is a link to a radio interview that J.K. Rowling did in October of 1999.

Wednesday, October 20, 1999 | The Diane Rehm Show from WAMU and NPR

If you follow the link, then you'll need to click where it says "Listen" and you'll need RealPlayer to hear the interview. Anyhow, some points of interest, which address issues that have come up in this thread, are as follows:

1. If you fast-forward to the 6:30 mark of the interview, then you will hear Rowling tell you what she hears most from children in relation to the Harry Potter books. What do you suppose that SHE says it is? That the books are "fiction" or merely "fantasy"? Nah. The number one thing that SHE hears from children in relation to Harry and friends is that they "very much think that they're REAL PEOPLE". So much for the "fantasy" claims.

2. If you fast-forward to the 16:43 mark, then you will hear Rowling explain how she did research in regard to what she calls the "folklore" in the books. SHE plainly states that the words attached to the "spells" are "exactly what the words were" and, in answer to a common question from children who ask, "How much magic is REAL" in her books, SHE replies about ONE THIRD.

Well, that's "straight from the horse's mouth", so to speak. Enjoy.

 

[frankleespeaking]

I don't believe it and I don't see any proof from you to support your statements, therefore they are dismissed. I mean if you don't care enough to support what you say, why should I care?
you shouldn't please don't care


I became a Christian by God's work, not man's. You should read Ephesians 2 sometime. That'll tell you how people are saved. I never said anything about Christians endorsing what God has forbidden. I'd ask you to provide evidence for that statement, but it seems you can't be bothered to do that.
the evidence is your standing in favor for Harry Potter a fictional character, that God says is detestable. separation between fiction and reality is not a place where anything goes, If I read a fictional story about two gay men, do I not see their life togather as sinful, or since its fiction their lifestyle is really of no matter to God, and I should condone it? or even applaud it? whether somthing is real or unreal you must make judgements whether or not something is good or evil........thats where you can't seem to get witchcraft is evil and makes it impossible for Harry Potter to be good, just as no matter how much I like the two guys in the fictional story, they're living a life against Gods commands and I won't be able to say this was good story, it can't be a good story unless somewhere in the story they realize they are living against God and repent. sin will always be sin whether its a fictional story or a fairy tale or a walt disney movie, sin is never make believe.
You have no idea what my motto is, or if I even have one. So keep your projections about me to yourself and the only people wasting their time here are the ones who stop to read anything you say. I've wasted enough of my time here.

time is never wasted unless you walk away with nothing

 

[LinuxUser]

You'll find it in abundance on CF too, unfortunately. In the couple years that I've been a member here, I've noticed a sad reality: venues like this run the risk of fostering a lifestyle of fear, bibliolatry, illiteracy and isolation rather the intelligent discussion and edification it was designed for.

There's always hope though...

Yes I even given into this type of silliness and superstition myself before. In my opinion these people want to be a good Christian but become so pious that they drive people away instead of bring them to Christ.

 

[PaladinValer]

please post a reference where I stated Harry Potter drank blood? if you look back to the original post it was a broad post referencing the glamorization of witchcraft, and blood drinking in shows like Harry Potter, Twilite series,

Before I go any further, please learn how to use a period. Commas are not periods. It is not easy for people who speak, write, and understand English to read run-on sentences without getting annoyed.

Now, back to your post.

Look at the thread title. You seem to want to have your cake and eat it too. This thread's title doesn't match the full content of your original post. If you want to discuss a wider topic of blood-drinking in multiple fantasy books, then don't use one of them in the title of the thread. It is a bit deceptive.

I'm guessing most you posters don't believe human sacrifices are still being done, even in America and they are mostly children

There aren't any. It would make the news the world over.

.....but its a bit much to rap your head around, especially if you don't even believe in the simplest forms of white magic,

1. Wrap, not rap.
2. There is no such thing as "magic" which is found in fantasy literature. That is why it is called fantasy.

As for people not believing the Harry Potter series would strike an interest in the occult, the website for wicca and other forum boards of similar occultic threads, stands in testimony that they are! and in droves!

Let me make it clear: I've studied Wiccan theology. I've even observed their religious services. I've talked with them, I've read the books of their famous authors, I've chatted with Wiccan clergy, and I have a very advanced understanding of their beliefs and their practices. I still have those books by Scott Cunningham and others in my bookshelf.

You are completely bonkers if you think Harry Potter is at all an accurate depiction of Wiccan rites and rituals.

BONKERS.

The rest of your post is not worth commenting on.

 

[LinuxUser]

First of all its the "BOOGY" MAN and everyone knows he lives in closets not under rocks?????? and I suppose anyone who follows Christian values, will get your little pharisee label..... Catholics against legalism....thats kinda funny

Your following your own rules not God's, your place 21st century ideas on ancient times in affect your adding to Scriptures just to be puffed up and act more righteous than other Christians

 

[frankleespeaking]

I just thought I'd offer up another subject for the inquisition.
Witch hunts are fun for everyone. The red glowing eyes reminded me of this game.

Was this drug related in any way?

So do you think there's a drug that when taken could make my eyes glow, I didn't see my eyes glow, a bunch of gang members did and they were scared to death, even when pointing a gun at me they were shaking,and none of them dared to shoot me, because the demon inside me said "the first one who shoots him, "I am going to come and live inside of you! they passed a gun from one to another saying "shoot him", you shoot em! the next would say, till they all cursed and ran away, if you think they were incapable of murder they threw my friend a couple of weeks later, right in front of an amtrack train dismembering him in 7 pieces. when this happened (not the train incident but the gun) I was only there inside watching, completely terrified, because I knew if they killed me I was going straight to hell, this demon hated me, but he really enjoyed controlling me and had spent along time working his way up. If you think demon's are a funny little part of childrens books, and are no way able to pass from make believe into reality, you are sadly mistaken