And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake

[gratefulgrace]

It is more important what we do than what is on our letterhead. Our local Bible college changed it's name from Western Pentecostal Bible College to Summit Pacific. Many of their grad go on to be missionaries in various 'closed' countries taking different jobs such as ESL teaching etc. and it was felt that having the denominational name on their transcripts was limiting the access to various ministry locations. I realize they didn't take Christ out of the name there but to many 'religious' pentecostals it was taken like that for a time. It ended up being tempest in a teapot and life goes on, biblical teaching occurs and young men and women go off to work at building God's kingdom. As Cru has international ties perhaps this is also part of their rational for changing the name. If you think about it most churches these days do not have Christ or Christian in their titles either but still preach the whole gospel. gg

 

[Faulty]

Why does one "have" to want to retain a particular name? I don't see the word "Christ" in your name. Did you purposely leave it out? I'm sure you did not. Does anyone have a say in what you call yourself? I'm sure they do not. A name does not make the man/woman/organization.

If we truly desired to retain our image of our Savior we would not judge others so easily and unfairly.

I didn't say I was for it against it. I was simply pointing out their excuse as to why it wasn't there was insulting and foolish.

The bottom line is that if they wanted 'Christ' in the name, it would be in the name. Period. It's their show and if they just came out and said 'we no longer wanted Christ in our name', that's their decision, but don't make up some fluffy nonsense and try to feed it to me and then expect me to just roll over and take it like some weak child.

They could have called themselves 'Cartwheels Anonymous' for all I care. Why in the world would I care if they change their name? That's nuts!

But I don't willingly buy into being spoonfed foolishness from people who are not children, and I am most certainly not about to take criticism from people who are seeking to find fault with me for not willingly rolling over and playing stupid.

 

[JimB]

Why does one "have" to want to retain a particular name? I don't see the word "Christ" in your name. Did you purposely leave it out? I'm sure you did not. Does anyone have a say in what you call yourself? I'm sure they do not. A name does not make the man/woman/organization.

If we truly desired to retain our image of our Savior we would not judge others so easily and unfairly.

I didn't say I was for it against it. I was simply pointing out their excuse as to why it wasn't there was insulting and foolish.

*****

What is insulting and foolish to me is the way “Christian” people have soiled the name. Many people connote Christianity with smugness, legalism, hatefulness, narrow-mindedness, judgmentalism not because it is but because that is the way too many Christians practice their Christianity. So, when we tell some people we are a “Christian” they immediately draw all those negative conclusions about us and that has soiled the name. Unfortunately, I think it has also soiled the name of Christ in the minds of many. We are Christians not because we call ourselves that but because we behave as true Christians—we are followers of Christ not because we say we are but because we actually follow Him.

~Jim

I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. ~C.S. Lewis​

___________________​

 

[Faulty]

What is insulting and foolish to me is the way “Christian” people have soiled the name. Many people connote Christianity with smugness, legalism, hatefulness, narrow-mindedness, judgmentalism not because it is but because that is the way too many Christians practice their Christianity. So, when we tell some people we are a “Christian” they immediately draw all those negative conclusions about us and that has soiled the name. Unfortunately, I think it has also soiled the name of Christ in the minds of many. We are Christians not because we call ourselves that but because we behave as true Christians—we are followers of Christ not because we say we are but because we actually follow Him.

~Jim

I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. ~C.S. Lewis​

___________________​

The cross is an offence. The name of Jesus is an offence. The gospel of salvation through the completed works of Christ alone is an offence. And we a promised persecution for His name's sake.

Seems to me people are trying to find their own ways around these facts, but the only way to do that is to compromise them along the way, because the source of the offence is firm. The only way we can avoid damage from them is to pull away and avoid direct contact.

 

[JimB]

The cross is an offence. The name of Jesus is an offence. The gospel of salvation through the completed works of Christ alone is an offence. And we a promised persecution for His name's sake.

Seems to me people are trying to find their own ways around these facts, but the only way to do that is to compromise them along the way, because the source of the offence is firm. The only way we can avoid damage from them is to pull away and avoid direct contact.

The cross is an offense to those who do not believe. I do not think you want to imply that CCC is led by unbelievers.

~Jim
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. ~C.S. Lewis

 

[probinson]

The cross is an offence. The name of Jesus is an offence. The gospel of salvation through the completed works of Christ alone is an offence. And we a promised persecution for His name's sake.

However in this case, CCCI is facing persecution from Christians for simply deciding to call themselves something else (which is ironic, seeing as how you say you don't care what they call themselves anyway).

You've called them "insulting", "foolish", accused them of making an "excuse" (though for what, I'm not sure) and using "fluffy nonsense". I'm not sure what you base any of this on, because it certainly is not based on the realities of the rational and well thought out explanation of why CCCI has decided to make this name change that is readily available on their website.

Seems to me people are trying to find their own ways around these facts, but the only way to do that is to compromise them along the way, because the source of the offence is firm. The only way we can avoid damage from them is to pull away and avoid direct contact.

What on earth are you talking about? I've seen absolutely nothing that indicates that CCCI is, or is planning on, compromising the message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to make it unoffensive. They're changing the name of their ministry so that they can be more effective at sharing the uncompromised Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[JimB]

*****

What on earth are you talking about? I've seen absolutely nothing that indicates that CCCI is, or is planning on, compromising the message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to make it unoffensive. They're changing the name of their ministry so that they can be more effective at sharing the uncompromised Gospel of Jesus Christ.

.

 

[Faulty]

However in this case, CCCI is facing persecution from Christians for simply deciding to call themselves something else (which is ironic, seeing as how you say you don't care what they call themselves anyway).

You've called them "insulting", "foolish", accused them of making an "excuse" (though for what, I'm not sure) and using "fluffy nonsense". I'm not sure what you base any of this on, because it certainly is not based on the realities of the rational and well thought out explanation of why CCCI has decided to make this name change that is readily available on their website.

You not understanding what I'm talking about, even after reading their explaination that you posted. isn't really a shocker to me.

What on earth are you talking about? I've seen absolutely nothing that indicates that CCCI is, or is planning on, compromising the message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to make it unoffensive. They're changing the name of their ministry so that they can be more effective at sharing the uncompromised Gospel of Jesus Christ.

If you would care to show me where I said they plan to compromise of the gospel, I'd be most appreciative, because no where in that quote did I say such a thing, nor was it addressing that topic.

 

[Faulty]

The cross is an offense to those who do not believe. I do not think you want to imply that CCC is led by unbelievers.

~Jim
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. ~C.S. Lewis

The answer to that is in their reasoning itself. The word "Christ" in their title they found turned people off from their message from the start.

Who is being turned off by their name? The nonbelievers. This is who I was talking about. I didn't say "Cru" is offended by the cross, and it was in their own faulty excuses that verified that it was indeed the nonbelievers who were offended by their name. I was just verifying their claim and something to be expected.

 

[probinson]

You not understanding what I'm talking about, even after reading their explaination that you posted. isn't really a shocker to me.

Then we do have something in common, because your choice to post incessant disparaging comments instead of actually addressing points raised isn't really a shocker to me either.

If you would care to show me where I said they plan to compromise of the gospel, I'd be most appreciative, because no where in that quote did I say such a thing, nor was it addressing that topic.

Yes, your quote was one remarkably vague run-on sentence of a nightmare. You mentioned "people", though never actually state who these "people" are, nor why they would be trying to find ways around the fact that the cross and name of Christ is offensive to unbelievers.

 

[The Unforgettable Fire]

This thread just inspired me to change my religion on facebook from Christian (Charismatic) to grace and love. Lol!

 

[gratefulgrace]

This thread just inspired me to change my religion on facebook from Christian (Charismatic) to grace and love. Lol!

And in fact your religion here on CF does say Non denominational. Naughty boy. LOL Guess unless we post as Christian we are unvalid representatives of the Lord Jesus Christ. gg

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

But I don't willingly buy into being spoonfed foolishness from people who are not children, and I am most certainly not about to take criticism from people who are seeking to find fault with me for not willingly rolling over and playing stupid.

Faulty, I truly apologize if I came across as criticizing and seeking to find fault with you....that was/is never my intent.

I don't expect people to play stupid, however, I have been on the other end and I've been accused of things I was not guilty of by people who came right out and said "do you expect me to be stupid"? The answer was "no" but neither do I expect you to jump on a bandwagon that I'm not riding. Nor did I expect them to consider my "real" explanation as foolishness and stupidity.

I think that is why I defend others so quickly. What may seem obvious to us is not necessarily true. We must be careful at how we treat our brethren and not become a tool of the enemy and take up his job in being an accuser of the saints. And who are we anyway to decide whether one's explanation for changing their business name is good or not? We owe our brethren love and it's not love to stand as an accuser.

 

[pdudgeon]

In particular, I find this passage disturbing:

We felt like our name was getting in the way of accomplishing our mission,” said Steve Sellers, the vice president for Campus Crusade, noting that the ministry will still be committed to “proclaiming Christ around the world.”
Sellers said researchers found that 9 percent of Christians and 20 percent of non-Christians were alienated by the name Campus Crusade for Christ

so in effect, this organization decided that 9% of offended Christians and 20% of offended non-Christians should be the deciding factor in whether they keep their name or change it? Since when was the goal of Christianity ever to be non-offensive???

Christ never thought of that as a goal, so why should we? The very name and ministry of Christ was offensive to those who liked the status quo of their day. Certainly almost all of the leading Jews were offended by him, and yet He never changed one iota.

did NO ONE figure out that this name change would offend 91% of Christians and 80% of non-Christians??? the very people they were trying to reach for Christ????
i think they should have fired the political correctness advisors who came up with the idea.

 

[probinson]

i think they should have fired the political correctness advisors who came up with the idea.

The name "cru" has been in use for nearly 20 years with success. They've simply adopted the nickname they've been known by for 2 decades, which absolutely no one has had a problem with.

Also, if 91% of Christians really are offended by the name change of this ministry, then I think that's a pretty sad commentary on the state of the body of Christ.

 

[pdudgeon]

The name "cru" has been in use for nearly 20 years with success. They've simply adopted the nickname they've been known by for 2 decades, which absolutely no one has had a problem with.

Also, if 91% of Christians really are offended by the name change of this ministry, then I think that's a pretty sad commentary on the state of the body of Christ.

how so?
maybe for liberal or lukewarm Christians it would be fine. here on earth.
but things are not decided here on earth.

 

[probinson]

how so?
maybe for liberal or lukewarm Christians it would be fine. here on earth.
but things are not decided here on earth.

Sure they are. You've apparently decided (along with other Christians) that, here on earth, this name change is offensive.

The reason I say it's a sad commentary on the body of Christ is because CCCI has been an absolutely incredible ministry for the past 60 years, dedicated to proclaiming the uncompromising Gospel of Jesus Christ. I see absolutely nothing on their ministry pages that indicates that is going to change. Do you?

So, it seems to me like many Christians are more concerned with the outward appearance of the name of the ministry than they are with the fact that the uncompromising Gospel of Jesus Christ is being proclaimed. Instead of taking the time to read the reasons they've decided to change the name, and reading how CCCI has been known as "cru" locally for 20 years with success, and reading how 20% of people they approach that are interested in talking with them about the Gospel were turned off and no longer wished to speak to them after they heard the name of the ministry, Christians would instead rather hold on to the outward appearance of the ministry name, all under the guise of "proclaiming the name of Christ".

But it's like I said earlier, CCCI, or "cru", is going to continue to proclaim the uncompromising Gospel of Jesus Christ all over the world regardless of the judgement, accusations and disparaging remarks lobbed at them from the people who really ought to know better and ought to rejoice that the Gospel is being preached.

 

[JimB]

Our church is called simply "The Vineyard," not "The Vineyard for Christ" Church. Down the road is a "Baptist" church, and around the corner a "Methodist" and a Presbyterian" and a "Word of Faith" and many other churches that do not have the word "Christ" in their name but no one is mounting a campaign against them or charging them with denying Jesus. In fact, I'm willing to bet that most of those who are jumping on CCC (or should I say, CC for Christ) and charging them with denying Christ go to a church that does not have the word "Christ" as part of their church name.

When you take it to its logical conclusion (reductio ad adsurdum), this argument against the CCC name change begins to look pretty, um, ridiculous. IMO.
　
~Jim

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

PS 119:165
Great peace have they which love your law: and nothing shall offend them.

 

[gratefulgrace]

Jesus says by their fruit you will know them not by their 'label' Time will tell I guess. gg