And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake

[BenAdam]

Our church is called simply "The Vineyard," not "The Vineyard for Christ" Church. Down the road is a "Baptist" church, and around the corner a "Methodist" and a Presbyterian" and a "Word of Faith" and many other churches that do not have the word "Christ" in their name but no one is mounting a campaign against them or charging them with denying Jesus. In fact, I'm willing to bet that most of those who are jumping on CCC (or should I say, CC for Christ) and charging them with denying Christ go to a church that does not have the word "Christ" as part of their church name.

When you take it to its logical conclusion (reductio ad adsurdum), this argument against the CCC name change begins to look pretty, um, ridiculous. IMO.
　
~Jim

The Vineyard didn't change it's name from the The Vineyard for Christ either, and had they I doubt it would have been because some found it offensive.

 

[Yitzchak]

I remember when Domino's Pizza ended their thirty minutes or less delivery guarantee. They said at the time that the service standard would remain the same. But what ended up happening is their delivery times went up. Then they had to have a bunch of meetings to try and figure out how they could recapture the market share that they were losing.The conclusion of those meetings was that they needed to reduce the delivery times.

A strange problem to have since they claimed that the policy change would never effect their delivery times and yet it did effect them to the point where they had a financial crisis over what was never supposed to happen.




The moral of the story is a line from Forest Gump.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Which means that it does not matter what other people claim about us. It does not even matter what we claim about our self. What defines us is our actions. The choices that we make.


To put it in biblical language

Pro 20:10 Divers weights, and divers measures, both of them are alike abomination to the LORD.
Pro 20:11 Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right.

In other words , it is not what they say , but what they end up doing that will decide the outcome. Of course , the ministry claims that this effects nothing. But time will tell if it does or does not.

We are being told that the ministry will not compromise on anything at the ministry. They will continue to hold to their core values.

My opinion is that they are already compromising. I think that they gave the wrong reason for changing their name. The mindset behind the change is troubling and suggests that they have already compromised. That is a warning sign to me of worse things to come down the road.

 

[probinson]

We are being told that the ministry will not compromise on anything at the ministry. They will continue to hold to their core values.

My opinion is that they are already compromising. I think that they gave the wrong reason for changing their name. The mindset behind the change is troubling and suggests that they have already compromised. That is a warning sign to me of worse things to come down the road.

What reason are you basing that on? Are you basing it on the bogus reason that people have decided is the "real" reason, despite CCCI never stating such a thing, or are you basing it on the actual reason they've given?

I ask, because some people seem to think that the reason they've changed this name is because people found the word "Christ" offensive, although CCCI has given no indication that is the case.

From the article in the OP;

"...Sellers said researchers found that 9 percent of Christians and 20 percent of non-Christians were alienated by the name Campus Crusade for Christ..."
​

Note that their research did not find that the word "Christ" was offensive; only that the name of their ministry was offensive. The article then goes on to state;

"...“Our name was becoming more and more of a hindrance,” he told Fox News Radio. He specifically mentioned the word crusade..."
​

Here is the information directly from the "cru" website, where the stated reason for the name change is as follows;

On the front page;

"...There's only one reason we'd change. We want to do a better job of connecting people to God's love and forgiveness. It's all about helping people experience the good news that Jesus offers..."
​

On the FAQ page;

"...Although the words Campus and Crusade served as hindrances, there was never any intentional decision to remove the word “Christ.” Yet as we considered hundreds of name possibilities, our experience confirmed that Cru would provide greater opportunity to connect men and women with the heart of Jesus, and to help them consider the good news of the gospel..."

"...Our name presented obstacles to our mission. The word “campus” does not adequately represent all our ministries in the United States and confuses our constituency as well as potential partners. The word “crusade”-while common and acceptable in 1951 when we were founded-now carries negative associations. It acts as a barrier to the very people that we want to connect with. It’s also a hindrance to many Christians who would like to partner with us but find the word Crusade offensive.

Our surveys show that, in the U.S., twenty percent of the people willing to consider the gospel are less interested in talking with us after they hear the name. We are changing the name for the sake of more effective ministry..."
​

These are the real reasons that CCCI gives for the name change. Absolutely nothing indicates that they changed their name because people found the word "Christ" offensive.


I do agree that what CCCI does is far more important than what their website says, and I also agree that time will tell whether CCCI ("cru") will stay true to their core values.


However, my opinion is that CCCI is being accused and judged wrongly based on faulty assumptions from people who have no interest whatsoever in the ministry of CCCI or cru. I also believe that this "mindset" people have accused CCCI of having is largely based upon a foundation of half-truths and misinformation.

 

[Tenebrae]

I recall discussing with a friend that worked at the New Zealand Bible College, which was re branded as laidlaw college. She was telling me that alot of the students were finding that putting X degree from NZ Bible College was affecting students chances of employment, because employers thought that tertiary degrees from Bible College were inferior to the same degree from other tertiary institutions.

Hence the name change from New Zealand bible college, to Laidlaw College. The purpose of the college, to equip christians for ministry hasnt changed, a name is a name

 

[Yitzchak]

What reason are you basing that on? Are you basing it on the bogus reason that people have decided is the "real" reason, despite CCCI never stating such a thing, or are you basing it on the actual reason they've given?

I ask, because some people seem to think that the reason they've changed this name is because people found the word "Christ" offensive, although CCCI has given no indication that is the case.

What I had in mind was the whole Forest Gump quote. They changed their name because they care what other people think about them.

Once they start taking opinion polls to make their decisions , it seems to me they have a mindset that will conclude that other changes are also needed. That is the compromise that i was referring to.


I favor the method of praying it through and hearing form God. I would have more respect for their decision if that was their reason.


I don't assume that they had any bad intentions , but I don't think Bill Bright would have handled things this way. He was a man of fasting and prayer and he may have approved a name change but he would have made the choice out of fasting and prayer , not because of pressure.


Just my opinion.


By the way , I think that names are important. The Bible teaches that names are important to God and so should we. Again , just my opinion.

 

[probinson]

What I had in mind was the whole Forest Gump quote. They changed their name because they care what other people think about them.

But as we set out to minister to people, shouldn't we, at least to some degree, care what people think about us? I would reference this scripture again;

1 Corinthians 9:22 (NIV)
To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.
​

Once they start taking opinion polls to make their decisions , it seems to me they have a mindset that will conclude that other changes are also needed. That is the compromise that i was referring to.

I would agree that we can't allow people's opinions to dictate to us in such a way that it causes us to compromise, but I don't think the name change does that, nor do I see any indication that they intend to compromise the Gospel of Jesus Christ to satisfy popular opinion. As others have said, time will tell, but I'm choosing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I favor the method of praying it through and hearing form God. I would have more respect for their decision if that was their reason.

Who is to say that wasn't part of their process? It very well could have been.

I don't assume that they had any bad intentions , but I don't think Bill Bright would have handled things this way. He was a man of fasting and prayer and he may have approved a name change but he would have made the choice out of fasting and prayer , not because of pressure.

Well, I see it a bit differently.

I don't see them changing the name because someone pressured them to do so. I see them changing the name because they identified it as a potential, and unnecessary, hindrance to proclaiming the Gospel and chose of their own volition to change it to remove that obstacle.

By the way , I think that names are important. The Bible teaches that names are important to God and so should we. Again , just my opinion.

I would agree that names are important. My name, in fact, means "A Godlike Rock."

However, while I would agree that names are important, I also think the message being proclaimed is far more important than the name it originates from.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

The Vineyard didn't change it's name from the The Vineyard for Christ either, and had they I doubt it would have been because some found it offensive.

Actually, if I remember correctly, it was called Vineyard Christian Fellowship. That's what the name was when I attended.