Is contemporary christian music "conforming to the world"

[a pilgrim]

Romans 12
[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
[2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

There are many things that we may do, but the question is, are they good and acceptable? The word good is the same as "profitable." Is it profitable to mimmick the trends of the world that we might draw in more seekers? Is this the pattern laid down by the Apostles and the 1st Century church? Can you see James, pastor of the Jerusalem church, jamming on an Ibanez Iceman guitar, for souls?

Have you ever played the childrens game, whisper down the line? Humorously, at the end, you sometimes have a completely changed phrase. This is o.k. in the world of childrens games, however, I think we have created a mutation that just may not fall into the catagory of good and acceptable. Just because "everyone is doing it," does not justify it's use.

I was saved out of a lifestyle of rock music, drugs, and etc. Perhaps it's just me, but I sense the same spirit in the music. Once while discipling a new convert, his friend was over. He asked my about Christian Heavy Metal. I told him I disapproved of it. He said, "What if a kid was at such a concert and gave his heart to Jesus there?" I told him, I'd still have my doubts about the lasting fruit of such activity. Then, with angst he told me, "I'm that kid!" Now, let's just step back and be a fly on the wall for a second. Here he sits with a concert shirt on for a band called, Appearance of Evil, with a wicked looking green demon face on it. I asked him has Christ changed your life, to which he told me, yes. Then I brought his attention to the shirt. Boy was he mad at me. I said, if I was walking down the sidewalk with my small children, I'd make sure they did not see that wicked shirt. The faith he had, and the faith once delivered unto the saints produces two different kinds of fruit. One unto holiness, and one unto the world. And what did the original scripture tell us regarding the world?

[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
[2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

My old mind likes Judas Priest, but my new man wants to pursue Christ in true holiness. My flesh may like the 'old sound" but I am to crucify the flesh and take up my cross and follow him. I think this is a missing link in modern Christianity.


a pilgrim,
Ben

 

[christsavedme:)]

After being to a ccm concert in the Uk and being a 17 year old male ive noticed how watered down things were, the reason that things were so watered down is simple, if they were to produce music that challenged the christian or preached holiness or taught about repentance they know how rapidly their sales would go down because with most ccms its all about how much money they can earn. in my brutal opinion worship is governed by the lead of the spirit and not the lead of a guitar oh boy i pray for the good old times that people in my church talk about when people were glad to go to church and praise and be challenged and not turn it into a thing of making the faith acceptable, cuz thats what it does it tries to make the faith acceptable and the fact of the matter is would the early apostles have tried to make the gospel of the lord jesus christ more acceptable ?
my answer is a resounding NO which is why 11 of them ended up on a cross one of them perhaps upside down, yet these so called men of god are treated like gods and they themselves become whats being worshiped as apposed to God almighty, this is idol worship.

 

[dies-l]

Like I said, if you believe that Christians should not listen to CCM, because it is conforming to the world, then I don't believe that Christians should do anything that "the world" does:

So, Christians should not be involved in sports, because that is conforming to the world.

Christians should not have gatherings in which they consume various foods and beverages, because that is conforming to the world.

Christians should not use the internet, because that is conforming to the world.

Christians should not watch TV or movies, because that is conforming to the world.

Christians should not read fictional books (or any book other than the Bible), because that is conforming to the world.

Christians should not use electricity, because that is conforming to the world.

And on and on and on. IOW, the only Christians that can criticize CCM without being wholly inconsistent in their morality are the Amish, and I doubt that we have any Amish here on CF.

 

[a pilgrim]

Like I said, if you believe that Christians should not listen to CCM, because it is conforming to the world, then I don't believe that Christians should do anything that "the world" does:

So, Christians should not be involved in sports, because that is conforming to the world.

Christians should not have gatherings in which they consume various foods and beverages, because that is conforming to the world.

Christians should not use the internet, because that is conforming to the world.

Christians should not watch TV or movies, because that is conforming to the world.

Christians should not read fictional books (or any book other than the Bible), because that is conforming to the world.

Christians should not use electricity, because that is conforming to the world.

And on and on and on. IOW, the only Christians that can criticize CCM without being wholly inconsistent in their morality are the Amish, and I doubt that we have any Amish here on CF.

Brother, I think you have listed apples and oranges here. You said:

Christians should not be involved in sports, because that is conforming to the world.

In some sense, I believe you are right here. I think the sports world has begun to show it's fruit as we see the increasing corruption in baseball, football, etc., as the "heros" continue to fall to drug use and immoralilty.

Christians should not have gatherings in which they consume various foods and beverages, because that is conforming to the world.

No, because there is no scriptural mandate against that which you have stated as an example.

Christians should not use the internet, because that is conforming to the world.

This may be true. There are ALOT of Christians who fall to pornography and online gambling because of their internet connection.

Christians should not watch TV or movies, because that is conforming to the world.

We don't at our house.

Christians should not read fictional books (or any book other than the Bible), because that is conforming to the world.

Fiction books fail the test of scripture because Paul told us to think on those things "...that are true..." in Phillipians.

Christians should not use electricity, because that is conforming to the world.

Again, this one has NO scriptural mandate. This is what I mean by apples and oranges. Your examples are not consistent.

And on and on and on. IOW, the only Christians that can criticize CCM without being wholly inconsistent in their morality are the Amish, and I doubt that we have any Amish here on CF.

No, sir, I don't think so. I have electricity, but have been called Amish because my family and I live simple and my wife and girls wear head coverings.

 

[dies-l]

Brother, I think you have listed apples and oranges here.


No, because there is no scriptural mandate against that which you have stated as an example.

And, there is no Scriptural mandate against contemporary music. So, it's not apples and oranges at all.

 

[a pilgrim]

And, there is no Scriptural mandate against contemporary music. So, it's not apples and oranges at all.

What about the following:

I Thess. 5
[22] Abstain from all appearance of evil.

CCM is not "the" evil, i.e., Rock music, it appears "like" it. It copies it. Rock music is of the world, and John said;

1 John 2
[15] Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
[16] For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
[17] And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Gal. 1
[4] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Why would Jesus deliver us from the world and then endorse replicating it?

We should not avoid smoking because there is no, "Thou shalt not smoke," but because the Lord wants us to take care of our bodies which belong to him and are the temple of his presence. We are to live by biblical principle. The principles are there, one just needs to search for them.

 

[spiritman1]

After being to a ccm concert in the Uk and being a 17 year old male ive noticed how watered down things were, the reason that things were so watered down is simple, if they were to produce music that challenged the christian or preached holiness or taught about repentance they know how rapidly their sales would go down because with most ccms its all about how much money they can earn. in my brutal opinion worship is governed by the lead of the spirit and not the lead of a guitar oh boy i pray for the good old times that people in my church talk about when people were glad to go to church and praise and be challenged and not turn it into a thing of making the faith acceptable, cuz thats what it does it tries to make the faith acceptable and the fact of the matter is would the early apostles have tried to make the gospel of the lord jesus christ more acceptable ?
my answer is a resounding NO which is why 11 of them ended up on a cross one of them perhaps upside down, yet these so called men of god are treated like gods and they themselves become whats being worshiped as apposed to God almighty, this is idol worship.

WOW! God has imparted you with great discernment, at a very young age even most Christian adults don't see the long term ramifications of this church conformation to meet the world at a very worldly level, only producing shallow christians who never seem to pursue holyness, but merely like the parable of the seed, they shoot up fast, but since they lack any root or foundation, the cares and riches of the world soon choke them out, not to mention taking with them, many Godly families children with them. Some how alot of Christians just don't see the bigger picture, and the type of worldly Christianity this venue is producing.

 

[spiritman1]

I would say the proof of God being behind it, would be Christian Rock music that is so good even atheist wouldn't care what the lyrics were spewing out, and in the same way Christians line up to watch these secular Rock gods, perform, not caring the least about the lewd and lascivious lyrics are at the front of the stage cheering on these guys who completely hate their Savior Jesus as most rock legends have........Do we ever see this happening? has Stryper or any other Christian Rock group reached any level close to what the secular rock bands have. I think if God was actually blessing any band producing Christian Rock they would be on the top 40 everyweek, running secular rock bands out of the market, but the truth of the matter is I've never heard any Christian Rock that sounds as good as lucifers children produce.......yes I will admit its easy to like and addictive to boot.....which is why I think its like methadone to a heroin addict

 

[dies-l]

What about the following:

I Thess. 5
[22] Abstain from all appearance of evil.

CCM is not "the" evil, i.e., Rock music, it appears "like" it. It copies it. Rock music is of the world, and John said;

1 John 2
[15] Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
[16] For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
[17] And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Gal. 1
[4] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Why would Jesus deliver us from the world and then endorse replicating it?

We should not avoid smoking because there is no, "Thou shalt not smoke," but because the Lord wants us to take care of our bodies which belong to him and are the temple of his presence. We are to live by biblical principle. The principles are there, one just needs to search for them.

This argument only makes sense of you assume that contemporary music is evil. Then what you have is circular reasoning. I don't believe that any style of music has an inherent "appearance" of evil.

 

[WannaWitness]

Here is another interesting link along these lines which I found some years ago, and just remembered it, locating it by keyword. Remember, this link (and the longer one I posted earlier) is not an effort to change anyone's honest convictions, but merely to provide food for thought from another perspective, even with the understanding that some will still strongly disagree.

Three Strikes in the Attack On Christian Music

I realize there are some people who are not comfortable listening to contemporary and jazzy styles of music (Christian lyrics, or not), to the point of having strong convictions against it. Well, that's fine. However, those who do have this conviction should never get to the point of exalting themselves as "holier" than those who do not (just like those who do not shouldn't look down on the the people who do). I guess you could say this is another Romans 14 type issue. The very first verse talks about "doubtful things", and this entire issue could very well be one of them. I'm taking it to mean that two people can have varying convictions about a certain issue (this music issue included) and still be right in the eyes of God. We Christians are unique in many ways, and when all is said and done, we share the common bond of Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. And there will come a time when we'll all spend an eternity together in Heaven. Then none of these disagreements that we had here on earth will even matter anymore.

And no matter what our taste in music is, none of us can even begin to imagine what the music of Heaven will sound like. I'm sure that it will be something we'll all enjoy.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

I would say the proof of God being behind it, would be Christian Rock music that is so good even atheist wouldn't care what the lyrics were spewing out, and in the same way Christians line up to watch these secular Rock gods, perform, not caring the least about the lewd and lascivious lyrics are at the front of the stage cheering on these guys who completely hate their Savior Jesus as most rock legends have........Do we ever see this happening? has Stryper or any other Christian Rock group reached any level close to what the secular rock bands have. I think if God was actually blessing any band producing Christian Rock they would be on the top 40 everyweek, running secular rock bands out of the market, but the truth of the matter is I've never heard any Christian Rock that sounds as good as lucifers children produce.......yes I will admit its easy to like and addictive to boot.....which is why I think its like methadone to a heroin addict

Some Christian rock groups have actually been popular. Even some of the very explicitly religious groups have charted high on the Billboard 200 (Casting Crowns reached the second position on the album chart with The Altar and the Door, and stayed somewhere on the Top 200 for 92 weeks). You can't really expect a Christian band to do as well as a secular band, since first, they're not going to be as popular just because of what they play, and second, record companies know that and aren't going to give them the kind of promotion a secular band gets.

Also, whether they're as good or not is a matter of taste. I personally think that some Christian rock groups are better than secular groups.

 

[dies-l]

Some Christian rock groups have actually been popular. Even some of the very explicitly religious groups have charted high on the Billboard 200 (Casting Crowns reached the second position on the album chart with The Altar and the Door, and stayed somewhere on the Top 200 for 92 weeks). You can't really expect a Christian band to do as well as a secular band, since first, they're not going to be as popular just because of what they play, and second, record companies know that and aren't going to give them the kind of promotion a secular band gets.

Also, whether they're as good or not is a matter of taste. I personally think that some Christian rock groups are better than secular groups.

And, another factor that comes into play is sheer statistics. "Secular" labels have many many more artists who in pursuit of record contracts. Therefore, they are able to be more selective about the quality of the product that ultimately gets signed. Christian labels don't have nearly the draw as their secular counterparts, and so have a smaller pool of candidates to choose from. Simply put, there are so many more people who produce "secular" music than "Christian" music that it stands to reason that the technical quality of the secular product will be higher.

But, this argument is not likely to be compelling to someone who believes that one's earthly success (or lack thereof) is a strong indicator of whether God's hand is involved in their work. But, by this reasoning the most godly church in America would be Lakewood (Joel Osteen's church).

 

[His_disciple3]

ok so do we go all the way back and use the songs and psalms that david and them used or do we just need to go back to the music of Jesus' days for it to be acceptable music, and I guess we need to cut out the part of the Bible when it talks about a new song, for we all know that we should never change the music, even though the Church divided when it got away from psalms only to be used in the Church, and started using hymns. is it even the music that we are dividing over or is it just the fact that some humans have to be right, and with them being right that makes anyone different wrong??

 

[MichaelKelley]

thats awesome!.....I'm thinking we should do the same thing with ouija boards and tarrot cards, I can just see it! "talk to God and get the answers you need TODAY! christian ouija boards coming to a walmart store near you!......what satan meant for evil, christians turned it around for the glory of God!......Hmmm......maybe thats the same idea they had when people got hooked on heroin, and they invented methadone as a "GOOD" substitute, won't get you high but will keep you from needing a fix for awhile.......thats kinda how I see christian rock.....its the mediocre fix that keeps you from listening to real rock n roll......for awhile!....lets face it, nothing has ever come close to the real rock n roll music, just mediocre methadone that is a temporary fix! you would think if God was behind it He could outdo some of rock n rolls legends, but anyone who listens to Rock will tell you no christian rock song or group has ever come close to the real rock legends and thats just a fact of life

First of all, there's a BIG difference between Contemporary Christian Music and Ouija board/tarot cards. Also, Christian Rock has been and is as big as Rock, and there is nothing wrong with Rock music anyway.

Show me a passage that says God only wants to hear songs like modern day hymns!! Show me where it says it IN THE BIBLE. The Bible constantly forbids things like Ouija boards (witchcraft) .... where does it say that Christians are only to listen to CERTAIN STYLES of music?!

 

[His_disciple3]

hasn't everyone heard that back in the western days that pianos were used in the saloons, so let's throw all them out of the Churches that don't allow contemporary Christian music, if the reason we can't use rock music to reach our teens, is cause it is used for evil by the world, then would we be hypercritical to use a piano in the House of God, or let us start a new thread is using a piano in our Christian services "conforming to the world" there is a denomination that won't use any musical instruments in their services, simply because you can't find anywhere in the New Testament about using them in Church so maybe they are right and all the rest that uses instruments are conforming to the world? and if you down ccm but use instruments are you trying to get the splinter out of thine brothers eye, while you have a beam in yours? i heard a man say one time that if you praise God you must put up both hands, cause if you only raise one hand you are praisng Hilter for that is what his followers did!! hey wait is using tv to speard the gospel conforming to the world? is using internet to spread the gospel conforming to the world? I mean after all there is www you know! I don't see driving a car to church anywhere in the new Testament, unless you count that all the disciples were in one Accord, maybe driving to Church is conforming to the world? I wonder what Paul meant when He said that he would do what ever it took to win his kinsman to Christ, even if it meant that he would become accused himself if possible?

 

[a pilgrim]

This is hard to nail down in a short form. There are many points on which to judge for example:

1. The life of the singer. Willie Nelson, not in good standing with the church, singing, 'Revive Us Again.' Here, we have an obvious wicked man singing this great hymn. I am going to avoid this because of his influence on the music industry as well as the hearer.
2Cr 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

2. The testimony of "supposed" Christian musician. This applies more to those in the Southern Gospel, CCM, etc., genre. They proclaim salvation (which is between them and the Lord,) but they have, sometimes, long hair, which is unscriptural, and questionable allegiances. Amy Grant singing with the lead singer from the 70's/80's hard rock band Chicago.
2Cr 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? My children are watching and listening. Is this what I want them to be? Or if I am single, is this what I want those with whom I fellowship to be like?

3. The type of music. Honest question here: Where did Rock, Pop, Rap, Country, etc. come from...the church? No, in most cases bars, clubs, honky tonks, etc. It transmigrated into the gospel music industry, found acceptance by the church, and ended up in our music cabinet. Did acceptance make it o.k.?
2Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

4. The style in which it is played. Is it moving my heart to Spirit-filled worship of Christ, or is it stimulating my flesh like the juke joint stuff I forsook, with it's accompanying habits. My old flesh loves the hippy rock I used to listen to. I have to discipline it to leave that stuff alone. When I hear a driving beat in a "gospel" song, my flesh still gets revved up by that beat. Maybe it's just me, but it is something to consider.
Amo 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

I'm sure there are other things to consider, and some may disagree wholeheartedly with what I have said. I used to be a lead vocalist in a Heavy Metal band. I remember the spirit that was in it. I remember the influence it had on my life.

Humble repentance and a sweet walk with Christ is the best way to get clear communication with the Spirit of God and to know what is pleasing to Him.

Bro. Ben

...........also.................

Try this contemporary music test at

www[dot]av1611[dot]org/crocktst[dot]html

I can't post links yet, I'm a newbie, you'll have to replace the dots with dots.

 

[frankleespeaking]

I would say the proof of God being behind it, would be Christian Rock music that is so good even atheist wouldn't care what the lyrics were spewing out, and in the same way Christians line up to watch these secular Rock gods, perform, not caring the least about the lewd and lascivious lyrics are at the front of the stage cheering on these guys who completely hate their Savior Jesus as most rock legends have........Do we ever see this happening? has Stryper or any other Christian Rock group reached any level close to what the secular rock bands have. I think if God was actually blessing any band producing Christian Rock they would be on the top 40 everyweek, running secular rock bands out of the market, but the truth of the matter is I've never heard any Christian Rock that sounds as good as lucifers children produce.......yes I will admit its easy to like and addictive to boot.....which is why I think its like methadone to a heroin addict

I would say if satan is behind Christian rock he would make them all famous........but I really don't care for music that actually isn't music but screaming in demonic voices, It shouldn't even be called music since the same sound could be produced by four 10yr olds who never picked up an instument in their life, chaotic chords and mismatched notes, is not considered music......I wonder how most Christians would accept death metal bands playing in their services if it gained the authoritive acceptance as Christian rock has in most churches, the way I look at it, is everyone has a line in the sand so to speak, some don't want to move past the old tired hymns, some want christian rock, and some would even prefer christian death metal, I wonder how far the pendulim can swing, before the church reconizes what has been lost in this transformation

 

[dies-l]

This is hard to nail down in a short form. There are many points on which to judge for example:

1. The life of the singer. Willie Nelson, not in good standing with the church, singing, 'Revive Us Again.' Here, we have an obvious wicked man singing this great hymn. I am going to avoid this because of his influence on the music industry as well as the hearer.
2Cr 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

Willie Nelson is not part of the the CCM industry. To use his as an example shows either ignorance as to what CCM is or blatant dishonesty. Many CCM performers live lives that are a very good reflection of Christ's influence on their lives.

2. The testimony of "supposed" Christian musician. This applies more to those in the Southern Gospel, CCM, etc., genre. They proclaim salvation (which is between them and the Lord,) but they have, sometimes, long hair, which is unscriptural, and questionable allegiances. Amy Grant singing with the lead singer from the 70's/80's hard rock band Chicago.
2Cr 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? My children are watching and listening. Is this what I want them to be? Or if I am single, is this what I want those with whom I fellowship to be like?

If you have to use Amy Grant and the lead singer of Chicago (both of whom were in their heyday over 20 years ago) in order to prove your point, then this should indicate to you that you are stretching A LOT. There is nothing in the lifestyles of most CCM performers to indicate that their morality is suspect. Like in any aspect of Christian ministry, there will always be a few who fall short. However, many many CCM performers are shining examples of Christianity.

3. The type of music. Honest question here: Where did Rock, Pop, Rap, Country, etc. come from...the church? No, in most cases bars, clubs, honky tonks, etc. It transmigrated into the gospel music industry, found acceptance by the church, and ended up in our music cabinet. Did acceptance make it o.k.?
2Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The origins of contemporary music are generally traced back to the gospel songs that were sung by black Christian slaves in order to endure their oppression. The music that they created had a huge and lasting influence on subsequent musical styles. Contemporary music then is an example of the world taking Christian music and making it "worldly". CCM is an example of taking it back again.

4. The style in which it is played. Is it moving my heart to Spirit-filled worship of Christ, or is it stimulating my flesh like the juke joint stuff I forsook, with it's accompanying habits. My old flesh loves the hippy rock I used to listen to. I have to discipline it to leave that stuff alone. When I hear a driving beat in a "gospel" song, my flesh still gets revved up by that beat. Maybe it's just me, but it is something to consider.
Amo 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

If it is not "moving your heart to "Spirit-filled worship of Christ" then that is your issue, not the music's. In that case, don't listen to it. But, don't insist that other people are the same as you. Many people are led to "Spirit filled worship of Christ" by CCM and CWM.

I'm sure there are other things to consider, and some may disagree wholeheartedly with what I have said. I used to be a lead vocalist in a Heavy Metal band. I remember the spirit that was in it. I remember the influence it had on my life.

Humble repentance and a sweet walk with Christ is the best way to get clear communication with the Spirit of God and to know what is pleasing to Him.

Bro. Ben

...........also.................

Try this contemporary music test at

www[dot]av1611[dot]org/crocktst[dot]html

I can't post links yet, I'm a newbie, you'll have to replace the dots with dots.

I do disagree. And, I am familiar with AV166.com, and I can't say that I would defer to what it says any more than I defer to what you say. I do with Scripture, and Scripture doesn't say anything about what style of music we ought to listen to.

 

[*Army_Wife*]

I listen to a wide variety of music. I find some country music okay to listen to so long as the specific lyrics don't go against my faith. I will not, however, listen to music with expletives, sexual or morbid situations.

 

[frankleespeaking]

I listen to a wide variety of music. I find some country music okay to listen to so long as the specific lyrics don't go against my faith. I will not, however, listen to music with expletives, sexual or morbid situations.

This woman has a line she will not pass, This is the line I was refering to! some people have no line at all and see absolutely nothing wrong with any song or music, and that is where the arguement arises, some believe there is no right or wrong when it comes to music and lyrics, and that a Christian can feed his or her spirit what ever flavor of media that it desires and there will be no affect.........and on a lighter note, everyone knows if you play country music backwards the dog comes home the pickup truck gets fixed and your girlfriend comes back