Universe is not homogeneous as far as we know

[SithDoughnut]

Who called the bible known science?? Get a grip.

You did the moment you started making scientific claims (i.e., claims about physical reality), just as the different-state universe hypothesis. If you want to use the Bible for such claims, expect it to be judged accordingly.

 

[dad]

A given? A given on what grounds?

On the grounds you can't prove here and now that space is all the same. All we know is the edge of space near earth.

 

[dad]

If we have something that has been decaying for a million years, then it does prove that the state required for decay has existed for a million years.

It would, but you do not. That is the problem. All we have is something that ..IF..this present state HAD OF been in place WOULD HAVE taken a long time to produce by present state processes and ways.

No, I accept that it got there by decay because any other explanation is flawed.

No more or less flawed than believing this state was here for no reason. You need a reason.

You have an alternative explanation for how they got there?

Of course. Creation, and the nature that first existed, and processes. All that we now see is that some materials are now in a decay relationship in this state.

This word spam that you use... I do not think it means what you think it means.

I use it to mean tossing out big links, and imaginaing that somewhere in them it helps what you are thinking in your head. You need to show where, and just use a link for a reference, or maybe a quote as well. Not spam a bunch of links.

First you will tell me what makes you thinkl that the stars are not far away, hot or big.

I don't actually know. But like you I can suspect. If there is no way to actually measure distance (unless space can be proven to be the same) then we can go back to the drawing board. How big do they look? What about the star of Bethlehem? It was observed directly. It wasn't so big. So we do have at least one data point!

So the fact that I didn';t mention something means that it is wrong? My goodness...

It means you should if you want it to be important and looked at.

Well, the Bible is just a book. How do you verify it? I mean, at least if God told you personally, you could claim you heard it directly from god's mouth. And it's not like God has a problem with appearing to people. he did it all the time in the bible...

One verifies it by becoming a believer. Then one can start to have it revealed. It has been coded that way. If one is talking about the records of men that were known, and gave their lives to verify it was true, then one should realize it is not a spaghetti monster account.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but reality does oppose the Bible.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but reality does not oppose the Bible.

The fact that a commonly believed deity's birth was used as a basis for the counting of years in no way indicates that the deity actually existed.

Peter and etc knew Him. You just can't wave it away. It really is revealing that educated men in this day are actually Last Thursdayists.

And what about that Mayan calendar or whatever that opredicts the end of the world next year?

I would look at the basis for the claim. I glanced at it once, I seem to recall that the present state again is involved. Pagan science, you know, it's like that. An old trick.

Whatever. the prochecy said there would not be a stone on another stone, according to you. And yet, the wall contains many stones that are on many other stones.

No. None. The 'wall' wasn't part of the temple by any stretch! It was a retaining wall. You know they are don't you?

Let me ask you a question...

If you have a source that makes a claim, do you think it's a good idea to go and find something else that also makes the same claim?

For example, if Joe says that Andy stole the car, is it a good idea to see if there's anything that supports the idea that Andy stole the car? Such as Andy's DNA in the car?

Depends on the source, and whether any others exist I suppose.

According to the Wiki article, the first texts of the New Testament were written about 50AD. Kind of a long time for eyewitnesses to wait, yeah? How old were they when they wrote their accounts? And after 50 years, how do you know their memories were accurate?

Because it is written that Jesus would bring it back to them clear as a bell. Besides, when a record is official, doesn't mean that it wasn't there already, but not sent to the publisher so to speak.

 

[dad]

You did the moment you started making scientific claims (i.e., claims about physical reality), just as the different-state universe hypothesis. If you want to use the Bible for such claims, expect it to be judged accordingly.

The bible is known, of course. But not merely silly physical only temporal present state so called science! Judge that puppy..

 

[Davian]

Dad, do you believe the Earth rotates on its axis and orbits the sun?

Yes. That is the way of the present.

Can you prove that to me? With all of your experience debating and discussing astronomy, you shouldn't even have to google it.

I do not see how the earth revolving around the sun needs 'proving'. So, have you really no point?

It's not a question of need. This sort of thing is done because it is fun, interesting, challenging. Would you like a more complex question? Does the Sun rotate on its axis and orbit within the Milky Way Galaxy?

But lets keep it simple, and one step at a time: Can you prove that the Earth rotates on its axis and orbits the Sun?
Yes or no?

 

[VehementiDominus]

On the grounds you can't prove here and now that space is all the same. All we know is the edge of space near earth.

So where did this go, then?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Dad, do you believe the Earth rotates on its axis and orbits the sun?

You and some other who are relatively new here may not yet understand the level of irrationality you are dealing with in dad.

You need to check out some of his hilarious old threads like

Earth Never Revolved

Flood waters in no gravity

and that timeless classic of delightful wackyness

No gravity before the flood.

Now if I could only find the one where he told us how he expects to spend eternity in a city of transparent gold having sex with famous beauties such as Marylin Monroe.

Added in Edit: I did find this classic thread
Moon was created

In which we learn that Elvis may be living in a city of transparent gold inside the moon
#593

and here I though he was running a 7-Eleven in Sedoma.

 

[Nathan Poe]

So where did this go, then?

Apparantly it crashed through the walls of heaven and startled a whole bunch of angels in the middle of their Thursday night poker game.

 

[VehementiDominus]

Apparantly it crashed through the walls of heaven and startled a whole bunch of angels in the middle of their Thursday night poker game.

"I see your 5 millenia of praising God non-stop and raise you £50."

"Wait, what's this?"

"Um... I think it's a camera, quick, say cheese!"

 

[dad]

..

In which we learn that Elvis may be living in a city of transparent gold inside the moon
#593

and here I though he was running a 7-Eleven in Sedoma.

Ha. You really know how to dig. I must confess my opinion has changed. I once leaned to the opinion that the interior of the moon might be hiding the Golden city. That I got from a (I think) now defunct group that went by the name of 'the Family'. I had access to some material of theirs for awhile, and it sounded good at the time. The concept of famous people living there, and sex in heaven was also an influence from them. There you have it.

Currently, I would think I am growing more toward a biblical view.

 

[dad]

It's not a question of need. This sort of thing is done because it is fun, interesting, challenging. Would you like a more complex question? Does the Sun rotate on its axis and orbit within the Milky Way Galaxy?

You answer that one first....I'll check your work.

But lets keep it simple, and one step at a time: Can you prove that the Earth rotates on its axis and orbits the Sun?
Yes or no?

Speaking of simple, how many nostrils do you have? Do you snort? How often do you blow your nose? Is one booger of yours bigger than the whole universe at an early point in the big bang theory? Inquiring minds want to know....

 

[dad]

So where did this go, then?

Good question.

 

[VehementiDominus]

Good question.

"Outside of our solar system."

So your little magical bubble is at least 16.8 billion kilometers from Earth, and rising.

And yes, both Voyager 1 and 2 are still transmitting infromation back here.

"The edge of space near Earth" is nonsensical, anyway, near compared to what? the Sun? The edge of the Solar System? The edge of the galaxy?

How far will it have to go before you accept that you're wrong?

If by some strange, unexpected turn of events, it's still transmitting from the edge of the galaxy, you could just as easily say what you're saying about your little magic Earth bubble, just replacing Earth with the Milky Way. What then, if it reaches Andromeda? Does your little magic bubble then include both galaxies? How big is your magic bubble going to get before you admit that you've been talking out your rectum about a "different state"?

The answer? Never. You'll never admit that, regardless of what we discover or how we discover it, you're so set in your ways that you'll never concede that you're wrong. It has nothing to do what can be proven or not, because you NEED it to be true to keep going on with your little fantasy about the invisible sky daddy, magic bread and all that other bronze age superstition you so blindly believe.

Don't worry, you've not made sense this far, and I have no expectations that you will in the forseeable future.

 

[dad]

"Outside of our solar system."



So your little magical bubble is at least 16.8 billion kilometers from Earth, and rising.

And yes, both Voyager 1 and 2 are still transmitting infromation back here.

"The edge of space near Earth" is nonsensical, anyway, near compared to what? the Sun? The edge of the Solar System? The edge of the galaxy?

How far will it have to go before you accept that you're wrong?

Don't worry, you've not made sense this far, and I have no expectations that you will in the forseeable future.

I would think that our space extends quite a ways. No news there. How far I don't know. You don't know. I would doubt it is one light year, but who knows?

As for Voyager, it shows That the conceptions of earth zone science were not at all right!

"
Scientists have previously theorized that the sun's distant magnetic field curved in "relatively graceful arc, eventually folding back to rejoin the sun," NASA said.
But images of a smooth outer heliosheath have now been discarded as scientists begin to realize that the region is actually bubbly and "frothy."


Voyager: Solar System Edge is Bubbly and 'Frothy' : Discovery News

 

[Davian]

Dad, do you believe the Earth rotates on its axis and orbits the sun?

Yes. That is the way of the present.

Can you prove that to me? With all of your experience debating and discussing astronomy, you shouldn't even have to google it.

I do not see how the earth revolving around the sun needs 'proving'. So, have you really no point?

It's not a question of need. This sort of thing is done because it is fun, interesting, challenging. Would you like a more complex question? Does the Sun rotate on its axis and orbit within the Milky Way Galaxy?

But lets keep it simple, and one step at a time: Can you prove that the Earth rotates on its axis and orbits the Sun?
Yes or no?

You answer that one first....I'll check your work.

Speaking of simple, how many nostrils do you have? Do you snort? How often do you blow your nose? Is one booger of yours bigger than the whole universe at an early point in the big bang theory? Inquiring minds want to know....

Dad, defeated. Not a pretty sight.

It was just a simple yes or no question.

 

[dad]

Dad, defeated. Not a pretty sight.

It was just a simple yes or no question.

Newsflash: asking silly questions defeats no one. Ever. Pitiful....

 

[Davian]

You and some other who are relatively new here may not yet understand the level of irrationality you are dealing with in dad.

You need to check out some of his hilarious old threads like

Earth Never Revolved

Flood waters in no gravity

and that timeless classic of delightful wackyness

No gravity before the flood.

Now if I could only find the one where he told us how he expects to spend eternity in a city of transparent gold having sex with famous beauties such as Marylin Monroe.

Added in Edit: I did find this classic thread
Moon was created

In which we learn that Elvis may be living in a city of transparent gold inside the moon
#593

and here I though he was running a 7-Eleven in Sedoma.

Thanks for the heads up -- I have already seen and even discussed some of these threads with dad, and apparently he still stands behind them.

The more recent thread where he was comparing the relative motions of galaxies to high-speed ghosts could be added to the list.

 

[Davian]

Dad, defeated. Not a pretty sight.

It was just a simple yes or no question.

Newsflash: asking silly questions defeats no one. Ever. Pitiful....

...says the person that has failed to answer the question.

Shall we take your response as a "no"?

 

[VehementiDominus]

...says the person that has failed to answer the question.

Shall we take your response as a "no"?

If he did answer it, he'd only spout nonsense, anyway.

Case in point:

As for Voyager, it shows That the conceptions of earth zone science were not at all right!

Why do Creationists keep making up useless terms and nonsensical words?

If it's to sound intelligent, it has an effect to the contrary.

 

[dad]

...says the person that has failed to answer the question.

Shall we take your response as a "no"?

Well, yes or no doesn't cover it.

"The Sun orbits around the center of the galaxy in a galactic year—once every 225-250 million Earth years."

Milky Way - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That of course is nonsense. If you think your case is above defeat, just make it..