Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments? (4)

[Stryder06]

That's correct. Notice what they said. It was their own efforts and not by Jesus' wonderful gift. Good works which include works of the law.

The wheat and tare grow together. The ones cast away were doing the exact same things as the ones who were accepted. So this actually goes to show the difference between those who kept the law the right way, and those who kept it the wrong way.

Love thy neighbor as thyself.

 

[from scratch]

Yup!

You don't get it and you've shown that you've not taken serious time to study the reason for the sanctuary or it's services. The reason why Christ died was because the law required it. If the law could be amended then His death would not have been necessary. He, being God after all, would have simply changed up the law to allow for provision for sin to come about another way.

Christ's death was not meant to do away with the ten commandments. His death was meant to fulfill the penalty of the law which all of us are worthy of.

Do I need to post pictures of some of my material on the subject? I do have a thread in the SDA progressive section on the IJ now called the sancturary doctrine.

Yes I understand what occurs with the tabernacle. Thank you very much. I think you have no full comprehension on the words fulfil, fulfulled, abolished, new, not like, better, under, not under, flesh, etc. I also think that you flat out refuse to accept the clear Word of the Scriptures. I'm not talking about the Clear Word published by your church either.

 

[from scratch]

The wheat and tare grow together. The ones cast away were doing the exact same things as the ones who were accepted. So this actually goes to show the difference between those who kept the law the right way, and those who kept it the wrong way.

Love thy neighbor as thyself.

And so they do. And I agree. I however don't fellowship at your denomination so there is no mixture in this sense between us.

You should really consider what you said very carefully. I think it is very self condemning.

 

[from scratch]

You profess to be a Baptist, and I often see stone monuments of the 10 Commandments in front of Baptist churches and yet you say that we don't have to obey the 10 Commandments? How does that make any sense at all? That basically does away with God's Holy Law, lets men and women feel that they can go on sinning with impunity!

I for one would like to see some picture proof of this. I have travelled the entire nation and don't recall one single example. I have walked through many communities from the NE, SE, S, SW, midwest and west. I used to be a volksmarcher. There may still be a web site for this activity called AVA I think.

 

[from scratch]

Then you support the holy Law for us to keep by the grace of God.

Nope, Just what do I need to do to make the clear enought for you to quit putting words in my mouth? OTH I also don't promote sin or practice such. I guess it is the soy beans that makes the phony milk, hamburgers, hot dogs and ice cream to name a few. Isn't the chemicals used to change the tase and appearance bad for you?

 

[from scratch]

Only the Holy Spirit brings on convictions and then condemnation when the rebellion against His Word erupts in the heart of the hearer.

Ah then it isn't the law (tutor) that leads us to Christ that brings conviction. Very interesting.

 

[from scratch]

You see it's not a problem of mine. It is you, you continue to put things and interpretations to the word that is completely foreign to the text. Coming up with ideas that are not of God.

If you say so. Please read my post again. I was making a remark about understanding me.

 

[from scratch]

I love the word of God. It is simply beautiful. It hurts tremendously to see violence done to it by ideas that are projected by us Christians. All of us are not correct in our view and understanding, just can not be. But just one of us is correct. Just one. One view that is. Satan was leading the priest in Jesus' day, and before His day and certainly has continued since then. Are we sure that we can stand the full test of our beliefs before God, as the pain of death. 100% certain like the Jews or like Christ. Which side does our belief about the law place us?

You forgot to include that you are right.

 

[visionary]

Ah then it isn't the law (tutor) that leads us to Christ that brings conviction. Very interesting.

What does the Holy Spirit use.. to bring conviction or condemnation .. of sin..

5.Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

It is the spiritual mind that is no longer against God and now subjects itself to the Law of God for guidance in righteousness.. That is what and why the Holy Spirit uses it as a tutor.. even today..

 

[Stryder06]

Do I need to post pictures of some of my material on the subject? I do have a thread in the SDA progressive section on the IJ now called the sancturary doctrine.

Yes I understand what occurs with the tabernacle. Thank you very much. I think you have no full comprehension on the words fulfil, fulfulled, abolished, new, not like, better, under, not under, flesh, etc. I also think that you flat out refuse to accept the clear Word of the Scriptures. I'm not talking about the Clear Word published by your church either.

You can save your pictures. If you have an understanding then I don't see how you could say you see no significance in the ark being shown to John in Revelation. I don't see how you can say the law has been abolished.

And I do have an understanding of the words you used. You keep saying that the new covenant can't hold the ten commandments as part of it because it is a brand new covenant. If you would take a second to consider that stance you would see how faulty it is. You have no problem saying the new covenant consists of the law to Love God and Love your neighbor, but those laws were part of the OC as well.

And what does the Clear word have to do with anything? I don't even like that bible. The clear word of the scriptures is that those who do the commandments of God have a right to the tree of life and may pass through the gates of the city. That's clear. The clear word of God is that Moses built the sanctuary after the pattern he was shown by God. The clear word of God shows the ark of the covenant in Heaven. The ark in heaven contains the ten commandments. There's no getting around that. You can ignore it sure, but you can't get around it.

 

[Stryder06]

And so they do. And I agree. I however don't fellowship at your denomination so there is no mixture in this sense between us.

You should really consider what you said very carefully. I think it is very self condemning.

I weigh my words carefully. You ought to do the same. Think about it, you think there's no law, but you think there's a judgment. You think there's no law but you believe Christ is our advocate before the Father. Do you really think that you will be able to stand before God and explain to Him, using the same logic, why you threw His law down to the dust for the sake of tradition?

For instance you think the sabbath is a burdensome day, but God says that (A) it's His day and (B) we're suppose to call it a delight. Do you really think you'll have an excuse for that?

 

[Studious One]

1 Timothy 1:5-11 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

The Law is not for the righteous. Those who are righteous are those who have trusted Christ as Lord and Savior. They are now clothed in His Righteousness. They are seen as being righteous because He is Righteous and they are in Him.

The Law is not for those who have trusted Christ, it is for the unrighteous.

Yet some would insist, through vain janglings, that those who have trusted Christ are to be placed under the Law and thus under the curse of death that comes with that Law. They would condemn those whom Christ has exonerated by holding them to the Law that Christ has set them free from.

 

[Stryder06]

1 Timothy 1:5-11 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

The Law is not for the righteous. Those who are righteous are those who have trusted Christ as Lord and Savior. They are now clothed in His Righteousness. They are seen as being righteous because He is Righteous and they are in Him.

The Law is not for those who have trusted Christ, it is for the unrighteous.

Yet some would insist, through vain janglings, that those who have trusted Christ are to be placed under the Law and thus under the curse of death that comes with that Law. They would condemn those whom Christ has exonerated by holding them to the Law that Christ has set them free from.

Couple of things:

1st - The law doesn't bring condemnation of death. Death is only to those who break the law

2nd - The law doesn't bear a penalty against the righteous because they aren't in violation of it, not because of their ability to keep it in and of themselves, but because of Christ, who covers them and who points to His own righteousness on behalf of the sinner who has accepted Him.

The law isn't something to cast away. It's something to be understood in it's proper light.

 

[Frogster]

I weigh my words carefully. You ought to do the same. Think about it, you think there's no law, but you think there's a judgment. You think there's no law but you believe Christ is our advocate before the Father. Do you really think that you will be able to stand before God and explain to Him, using the same logic, why you threw His law down to the dust for the sake of tradition?

For instance you think the sabbath is a burdensome day, but God says that (A) it's His day and (B) we're suppose to call it a delight. Do you really think you'll have an excuse for that?

oh heck, even james did not want to burden the church with it, and peter called the law a yoke, he nor the fathers could bear, read acts 15 will ya!

 

[Frogster]

Couple of things:

1st - The law doesn't bring condemnation of death. Death is only to those who break the law

2nd - The law doesn't bear a penalty against the righteous because they aren't in violation of it, not because of their ability to keep it in and of themselves, but because of Christ, who covers them and who points to His own righteousness on behalf of the sinner who has accepted Him.

The law isn't something to cast away. It's something to be understood in it's proper light.

wha? the whole thing was a ministry of death and condemnation, read 2 cor 3:7 and 9.

Here, also first hand mortal combat with law...


9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.

 

[Stryder06]

oh heck, even james did not want to burden the church with it, and peter called the law a yoke, he nor the fathers could bear, read acts 15 will ya!

I've read acts 15. Thanks. And what was the yoke? Was it the law or the way the pharisees interpreted the law and turned it into something burdensome.

Tell me Frogster, do you find it burdensome to honor your parents, or to remain faithful to your wife? Is it a burden for you to worship the only One True God?

How about you stop trying to insert your own modern day understanding into what the scriptures are saying and actually take them for what they are?

BTW: I love your sig but I can't for the life of me figure out why you forgot this part:
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[Frogster]

What does the Holy Spirit use.. to bring conviction or condemnation .. of sin..

5.Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

It is the spiritual mind that is no longer against God and now subjects itself to the Law of God for guidance in righteousness.. That is what and why the Holy Spirit uses it as a tutor.. even today..

Careful sis, don't let law snare in your mind, it will arouse sin, and bring you into bondage. It says ENTANGLED, in 5:1, like fish in a net.


How can the Holy Spirit use law, when if being led by the Spirit, means not law?


5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Why did the galatians get the Spirit, they were doing well, 5:7, all without law?

 

[Frogster]

I've read acts 15. Thanks. And what was the yoke? Was it the law or the way the pharisees interpreted the law and turned it into something burdensome.

Tell me Frogster, do you find it burdensome to honor your parents, or to remain faithful to your wife? Is it a burden for you to worship the only One True God?

How about you stop trying to insert your own modern day understanding into what the scriptures are saying and actually take them for what they are?

BTW: I love your sig but I can't for the life of me figure out why you forgot this part:
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

No it wasn't, it was the mosaic law, that was the issue.


1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” .


5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”

 

[Frogster]

I love the word of God. It is simply beautiful. It hurts tremendously to see violence done to it by ideas that are projected by us Christians. All of us are not correct in our view and understanding, just can not be. But just one of us is correct. Just one. One view that is. Satan was leading the priest in Jesus' day, and before His day and certainly has continued since then. Are we sure that we can stand the full test of our beliefs before God, as the pain of death. 100% certain like the Jews or like Christ. Which side does our belief about the law place us?

Then do you love how the word of God, calls law life bondage 5 times in Galatians?

Do you love how the Word of God, says that the law arouses sin?

Bro, you only love a prooftexted edition.

 

[Frogster]

So. How does that negate the Holy Law.

it means lets get that old bondwoman, and her sons, outta the church!

Why does it say until?

19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.