Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments? (4)

[Studious One]

Hey I'm currious, got any Italian in you? Bet he doesn't eat meat medium rare, but does up a slab of ribs not and then on the que.

As far as I know, I have no Italian in my bloodline.

 

[from scratch]

Why? you would just ignore it.

by the standards of the day I think I'm very honest. I don't think it can be documented.

 

[Arthur57]

What's the question?

The question is... have you trusted Jesus Christ for Salvation?

If yes, then quit looking to the Law. Look upon Christ and live.

If you look to the Law for Salvation you will die, for in choosing to walk in the Law, one has to reject the Spirit that freed us from the Law.

Life is not found in the Law. Paul said when the Law came, sin revived and he died. Life is only found in Christ. If we look to Him for life, walking in His Spirit of perfect peace and liberty, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. And if we are not fulfilling the lusts of the flesh, we have no need to be in bondage to the Law.

This is a strange idea and believe.

Adam died because he transgressed the law.
We died because we were born sinners and did sins too.

Jesus came and died to glorify the law, because God can not change the law that said: ..... for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.

Sin is transgression of the law, and the wage is death.

After Jesus glorified the law by his painful and humiliated death on the cross, to confirm the righteousness and eternal character of His law, it would be very strange indeed if He cancelled the law afterwards, in order sinners might be released from the obligation to keep the law and thus released from the condemnation of the law. This is the hoax of Satan to deceive people.

Jesus gave an example of true and holy Christian life during his life journey on earth, and John said: He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:6.

Paul the apostle said: I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Philippians 4:13.

The life and death of Jesus Christ was to glorify the law, and he said about his law:
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul; - Psalm 19:7.
Blessed is the man whom You instruct, O LORD,And teach out of Your law, - Psalm 94:12.
Forever, O LORD,Your word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89. (Conforms with Rev. 11:19 - the tablets of stone kept in the Ark).
Direct my steps by Your word,And let no iniquity have dominion over me. Psalm 119:133.
The entirety of Your word is truth,And every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever. Psalm 119:160
For the commandment is a lamp, And the law a light; Reproofs of instruction are the way of life, - Proverbs 6:23.
The law of the wise is a fountain of life, To turn one away from the snares of death. - Proverbs 13:14.
One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, Even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9.

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Hebrews 13:8.
But the word of the LORD endures forever.” Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you. 1 Peter 1:25.

The same Christ today will always glorify his law. Why Christ life and death glorified the law? Because this law is the transcription of His own character, this law contains His great principle of unselfish love, which He had fulfilled with his death. The fulfillment of the law righteous demands that must be proven with Christ righteous blameless and holy life and His painful death is to confirm of the eternal jurisdiction of the law over men, whom Christ had redeemed.

He knew that His believers could fulfill the righteous holy demands of the law, because He gave His power and strength through His Spirit to enable them to keep and obey the law and fulfill it demands. For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Phil. 2:13.

Therefore Paul affirms: that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:4.

The righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk according to the Spirit, Who works in us to will and to do for His good pleasures, Who strengthen us to do all things, even keeping and obeying the law.

But Satan dislike the idea that Christian might achieve perfection and saved to eternal life. He threw out his hoax; you can not keep the law and fulfill its holy righteous demands ooh sinners, you will be forever under the law condemnation. The only way to escape it, is: NAILED THE LAW TO THE CROSS. Just trust Christ and he will transform you, it is his responsibility to safe you, you need nothing to do, just believe.

And many had been deceived.

By the way; when the law came, sin revived and Paul died, is not the fault of the law, but because Paul doesn't know that he is sinful, he though he is righteous still.

Life is found in Christ but death in rejecting and transgressing his law, which Christ himself has proven this. And He could not give life to those who reject his law, because He himself glorified the law with His life and death, thus establishing the eternal obligation to the law, as Paul had said: Do we nullify the law because of faith? God forbid! We established the law.

 

[Arthur57]

Originally Posted by from scratch

Incidence isn't obedience. My non religious neighbor does most of the law but if you were to approach him with what he deos as obeying the law he would go what? So if every body does it then what is the deal? It must be that everybody doesn't do it or IPO does it involuntarily. If that is so then you have no postion, basis or platform to make a case.

Since you have made a classic SDA speech, why is it that you don't show that faith icon? Is saying one is an SDA saying that they aren't a Christian? The only people or animals I know of that hide in some respect either sinned or are deceiving some one and both are acts of sin. There is no accusation in what I have presented. I only asked a fair question and made a general observation based on personal experience.
​

I'm not SDA. Why don't you have "hater of God's law" as your faith icon? The accusation about what sin is came from Paul. Paul said that sin is transgression of the law. If you have a problem with that, just tear that from your bible and go make yourself an idol to bow down to.


And for your question about your "non-religious" friends.
"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another" - Romans 2:14-15

He thinks that whomever promoting the jurisdiction of the law over Christian is an SDA, did he know that Christians who believe the law still exist and obligatory is not SDA alone?

 

[11822]

Most Christian theology teaches commandments from Jesus and the apostles with no problem. This anti law doctrine is not what Paul teaches. Its a perversion of the truth. It takes one part of His teaching and rejects the rest. It chooses what doctrine it wants to obey and throws out the rest.

 

[Studious One]

This is a strange idea and believe.


Jesus came and died to glorify the law,

Jesus did not come and die to glorify the Law, Jesus came and died to redeem man from the curse of the law.

because God can not change the law that said: ..... for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.

Funny, Paul tells us that God took away the sting of death for those who trust His Son.

After Jesus glorified the law by his painful and humiliated death on the cross, to confirm the righteousness and eternal character of His law, it would be very strange indeed if He cancelled the law afterwards, in order sinners might be released from the obligation to keep the law and thus released from the condemnation of the law. This is the hoax of Satan to deceive people.

Jesus never glorified the Law; not in His life, nor in His death. Where do you get the idea that He glorified the Law? That is unScriptural.

Jesus gave an example of true and holy Christian life during his life journey on earth, and John said: He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:6.

News Flash, Jesus gave us new commandments to walk in... not the old letter of the Law.

Paul the apostle said: I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Philippians 4:13.

And yet Paul was the chief of sinners... imagine that.

The life and death of Jesus Christ was to glorify the law, and he said about his law:
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul; - Psalm 19:7.
Blessed is the man whom You instruct, O LORD,And teach out of Your law, - Psalm 94:12.
Forever, O LORD,Your word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89. (Conforms with Rev. 11:19 - the tablets of stone kept in the Ark).
Direct my steps by Your word,And let no iniquity have dominion over me. Psalm 119:133.
The entirety of Your word is truth,And every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever. Psalm 119:160
For the commandment is a lamp, And the law a light; Reproofs of instruction are the way of life, - Proverbs 6:23.
The law of the wise is a fountain of life, To turn one away from the snares of death. - Proverbs 13:14.
One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, Even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9.

There is not one iota of Scripture to back the notion that Jesus glorified the Law.

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Hebrews 13:8.
But the word of the LORD endures forever.” Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you. 1 Peter 1:25.

You mix truth with error throughout your post. Acts 15 reveals to us that the Gentile Believers were not to be put under the yoke of burden called the Mosaic Law. Do you actually believe the Holy Spirit was working against Christ?

The same Christ today will always glorify his law. Why Christ life and death glorified the law? Because this law is the transcription of His own character, this law contains His great principle of unselfish love, which He had fulfilled with his death. The fulfillment of the law righteous demands that must be proven with Christ righteous blameless and holy life and His painful death is to confirm of the eternal jurisdiction of the law over men, whom Christ had redeemed.

Christ never glorified the Law, nor will He ever glorify the Law. The Law brought death to all who were subject to it.

He knew that His believers could fulfill the righteous holy demands of the law, because He gave His power and strength through His Spirit to enable them to keep and obey the law and fulfill it demands. For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Phil. 2:13.

Therefore Paul affirms: that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:4.

The righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk according to the Spirit, Who works in us to will and to do for His good pleasures, Who strengthen us to do all things, even keeping and obeying the law.

But Satan dislike the idea that Christian might achieve perfection and saved to eternal life. He threw out his hoax; you can not keep the law and fulfill its holy righteous demands ooh sinners, you will be forever under the law condemnation. The only way to escape it, is: NAILED THE LAW TO THE CROSS. Just trust Christ and he will transform you, it is his responsibility to safe you, you need nothing to do, just believe.

And many had been deceived.

By the way; when the law came, sin revived and Paul died, is not the fault of the law, but because Paul doesn't know that he is sinful, he though he is righteous still.

Life is found in Christ but death in rejecting and transgressing his law, which Christ himself has proven this. And He could not give life to those who reject his law, because He himself glorified the law with His life and death, thus establishing the eternal obligation to the law, as Paul had said: Do we nullify the law because of faith? God forbid! We established the law.

Your truth mixed with error is really disheartening.

 

[Arthur57]

Originally Posted by Arthur57

FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE THEY ARE NOT UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF THE TEN COMMANDMENT.

Made up your mind!

Is the law nailed to the cross more then 2,000 years ago,

or

just nailed when faith came?

Today, maybe next month, maybe end of time because there would be many unbelievers till that day.

Picking up both to justify your believe that it is both ways, is a mixed and confused believe.
​

The law was nailed to the cross when Christ was. But one must be in Christ. We see that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ are none of His. So therefore they will be judged by their works. And we all know that works will not save a man.

You didn't answer me.

Now, if you agree the law nailed at the cross, then how can you know Christ and put your faith in Him? it is impossible without the law right? For the law was your tutor to bring you to Christ, that you might be justified by faith. Gal. 3:24; For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to you who believe. Romans 10:4.

Made up you mind! Is the law nailed to the cross 2,000 years ago, or would it end only when you have your righteousness by faith in Christ?

 

[Arthur57]

FOR THOSE WHO REJECT THE LAW.

Now, if you agree the law nailed at the cross, then how can you know Christ and put your faith in Him? it is impossible without the law right? For the law was your tutor to bring you to Christ, that you might be justified by faith. Gal. 3:24; For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to you who believe. Romans 10:4.

Made up you mind! Is the law nailed to the cross 2,000 years ago, or would it end only when you have your righteousness by faith in Christ?

 

[Studious One]

Most Christian theology teaches commandments from Jesus and the apostles with no problem. This anti law doctrine is not what Paul teaches. Its a perversion of the truth. It takes one part of His teaching and rejects the rest. It chooses what doctrine it wants to obey and throws out the rest.

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

I am not bound to the Law because I am bound to another... Jesus Christ. I will not be an adulterer and bind myself to the law. You may if you wish, but leave me out of it.

 

[11822]

FOR THOSE WHO REJECT THE LAW.

They reject any law that isn't love thy neighbor. As if we can obey that commandment without being under the curse of the law but we cant do the same with abstaining from fornication. Its illogical.

 

[Studious One]

FOR THOSE WHO REJECT THE LAW.

Now, if you agree the law nailed at the cross, then how can you know Christ and put your faith in Him? it is impossible without the law right? For the law was your tutor to bring you to Christ, that you might be justified by faith. Gal. 3:24; For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to you who believe. Romans 10:4.

Made up you mind! Is the law nailed to the cross 2,000 years ago, or would it end only when you have your righteousness by faith in Christ?

For those who wish to be subject to the Law

Paul revealed in Romans 7:1-4 that those who marry Christ but live with the Law are adulterers. Do you really wish to be identified as such?

 

[11822]

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

I am not bound to the Law because I am bound to another... Jesus Christ. I will not be an adulterer and bind myself to the law. You may if you wish, but leave me out of it.

We're bound to the Lord and His word which includes NT teaching from the apostles. You tell us we can obey love thy neighbor but if we obey the commandment to abstain from fornication we're under the curse of the law. Its not logical on any planet in the universe.

 

[Arthur57]

Jesus did not come and die to glorify the Law, Jesus came and died to redeem man from the curse of the law.

Ah, an ignorance because you didn't know it. Never mind, you are forgiven. Why should he redeem those ignorant people who transgress his law? Burn them and create new instead. But he came and died to redeem them because he could not change his law; if he could change it, he didn't need to come and die. This truth affirms that he came to justify and glorify his law. Think deeper, dig deeper to the spiritual truth behind those mere wording.

because God can not change the law that said: ..... for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.

Funny, Paul tells us that God took away the sting of death for those who trust His Son.[/quote]

The sting of death is sin. Sin is a transgression to His law. What he took away is the sin, not His law. Are you so confuse that you couldn't comprehend those simple wording?

Jesus never glorified the Law; not in His life, nor in His death. Where do you get the idea that He glorified the Law? That is unScriptural.

Unbelieveable! So hard you tried to reject the truth, that you blindly says the word you say above. If Jesus didn't glorify the law with his life, he did sin, simple as that, and He failed to be our redeemer.

News Flash, Jesus gave us new commandments to walk in... not the old letter of the Law.
And yet Paul was the chief of sinners... imagine that.

There is no new law, the 10 Cs is the same law given to those before Christ and to those after the cross, for it just remain in it jurisdiction, as it is eternal, for the law is the transcription of God's unselfish love. Nothing wrong with the old letter of the law, as long you keep it with faith in Christ. Paul was the chief of sinners doesn't mean he remains in that condition.

12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Phil. 3:12-14.

Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. 1 Cor. 9:26,27.

That is walking after the Spirit, to achieve the fulfillment of the righteousness of the law in him. (Romans 8:4).

There is not one iota of Scripture to back the notion that Jesus glorified the Law.

We have wisdom and logic thinking, led by the Spirit.
Not necessary to be written in the Scripture, but Christ life and death glorify and justify the righteousness and eternal moral obligation of His law.
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. Matthew 5:16. And the standard of good works is the law, the Ten Cs. If Jesus didn't glorify the law, He transgress the law.

You mix truth with error throughout your post. Acts 15 reveals to us that the Gentile Believers were not to be put under the yoke of burden called the Mosaic Law. Do you actually believe the Holy Spirit was working against Christ?

In Act 15 is not mentioned what is already a custom of Christian living, keeping the Ten Cs, for there was never in the apostles minds that this law ended at the cross. This is a believe that raised later on among Christianity, where the eat of the hoax of Satan. The Mosaic law is not a burden at all, the law of God would never be a burden, why should it be? The ceremonial laws pointed out to Christ, it is not a burden, it is a blessing for Israel to know their coming savior and put their faith in Him. You can read in Psalm how the author glorify the law. The same Paul had said: The law is holy, good and just! So, how it could become a burden? The Mosaic law just become a burden when some one tried to keep and obey it on his own strength, out of Christ. This what become the burden of Israel, seeking self righteousness which Paul is very much against it.

Christ never glorified the Law, nor will He ever glorify the Law. The Law brought death to all who were subject to it.

You really need the Spirit to guide you.

Your truth mixed with error is really disheartening.

I think I have presented the truth, supported by the Spirit. Only it is against what you believe, which unfortunately is against the Scripture.

 

[11822]

For those who wish to be subject to the Law

Paul revealed in Romans 7:1-4 that those who marry Christ but live with the Law are adulterers. Do you really wish to be identified as such?

Will obeying "love thy neighbor" put me under the curse of the law and make me an adulterer? No it wont. So why would obeying abstinence from fornication? Please explain.

 

[Arthur57]

Originally Posted by Arthur57

FOR THOSE WHO REJECT THE LAW.

Now, if you agree the law nailed at the cross, then how can you know Christ and put your faith in Him? it is impossible without the law right? For the law was your tutor to bring you to Christ, that you might be justified by faith. Gal. 3:24; For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to you who believe. Romans 10:4.

Made up you mind! Is the law nailed to the cross 2,000 years ago, or would it end only when you have your righteousness by faith in Christ?
​

For those who wish to be subject to the Law

Paul revealed in Romans 7:1-4 that those who marry Christ but live with the Law are adulterers. Do you really wish to be identified as such?

Let me tell you what Romans 7:1-4 means, which conform with the Scripture.

Romans 7:1-6.
1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

In chapter 6 Paul said that being renewed in the Spirit, we should live according to the Spirit, no longer in the old style of life, as according to the flesh. Now, being under grace, they should live according to what grace is given (Titus 2), to live holy and subjected to the law of God, for being under grace is not a permit to sin. Being a slave to sin bears fruit unto death, being a slave of God bears fruit unto life.

In Chapter 7, Paul continues with comparing a slave to sin against a slave of God using the bound between a wife and her husband, which is a very common illustration so that they might understand.

The point is: that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives.

Whether it is condemnation unto death, or obligation to obey it.

As a slave of sin, they are condemned to death. But as a slave of God, they should bear fruit unto life. What Paul said in chapter 6 he repeated again in chapter 7: For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

When they were in the flesh, seeking self righteousness through the law, the sin is revealed instead of righteousness, therefore Paul said, when the law came, sin revived and I died (Romans 7:7-9). They come under condemnation of the law. But after receiving the Gospel preach by Paul, they have been delivered from condemnation of the law by Christ death, they should now, as Christ believers, serve Him in the newness of the Spirit, to serve Him with love, not like the old life style, self righteousness through obedience to the letter.

Their old man, their self centered attitude, their self righteousness, died to the law through the redemption of Christ Jesus, condemned and then justified by faith. From then on, they were bound to Him that released them from the dominion of Sin, married to Him, so that they might bear fruit unto God. What put them under condemnation (the law) for their sins, is still there as it will always be, but no longer condemn them, for they are with Jesus now, living under His grace, which in turn will bring them to live in harmony with the demands of the law. if they walk out of faith and do the things of the flesh again, the law will again put them under condemnation for their sin, until they repent.

So, a walk in the law, is a walk of freedom of sin, is a walk of righteousness, is a walk of the Spirit. This is the manifestation of faith in Christ.

 

[Arthur57]

But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

The law of sin and death isn't the carnal mind.

Romans 7 dealt with the law of sin and death in man, is the power of sin in a man, which is his carnal mind, that is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of god, never indeed can be (Romans 8:7).

The written law on stone tablets is a ministration of death to those who is against it. For it reveals the sin in man (Romans 7:7), it brought knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20), therefore, sin is transgression of the law (1 john 3:4).

And when this law was given, it was given in glory.

 

[Arthur57]

Romans 8:3-5 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

The law could not cleanse us, that is why Christ had to die for us. Now that we have come to faith in Christ, we are freed from the bondage that required God's people of old to walk in the commandments of the Law.[/quote]

Try to think the other way that suit the Scripture.

The law could not cleanse us, that is why Christ had to die for us. Now that we have come to faith in Christ, we are freed from the dominion of sin, in order we might walk after the Spirit and fulfilled the righteous demands of the law. This is what Romans 8:4 says.

And put it in your mind, the law of God could never be a burden for man. And keeping the law is not a bondage to sin, but a freedom from sin, for, sin is transgression of the law.

Keeping the law in Christ is not self righteousness, but a manifestation of faith in Christ.

 

[11822]

Romans 7 dealt with the law of sin and death in man, is the power of sin in a man, which is his carnal mind, that is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of god, never indeed can be (Romans 8:7).

The written law on stone tablets is a ministration of death to those who is against it. For it reveals the sin in man (Romans 7:7), it brought knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20), therefore, sin is transgression of the law (1 john 3:4).

And when this law was given, it was given in glory.

Speaking of the carnal mind. Here is Paul begging or beseeching us be holy and to be transformed by the renewing of our mind.

Ro 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Ro 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[11822]

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God


Paul sure sounds serious.

 

[Arthur57]

Please explain. Here is what God's Word says - But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

You quoted this to confirm your believe that you are not under the law's jurisdiction and obligation to keep it.

But UNFORTUNATELY, it is not the meaning of it.

Believers who is led by the Spirit, are those who has the righteousness of the law fulfilled in them, are those who keep the law. Therefore, they are not under condemnation of the law.

See and compare with Romans 7:25;8:1.4.

I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit, so that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in them.

As I said, whatever you think and believe about the law, the scripture you quoted telling otherwise.





28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

It certianly suits me just fine. Thanks. You can take the hard way and lose. It is guaranteed and by Jesus Mat 5:20.[/quote]