Do you agree that Christians should obey all 613 commandments?

[JohnRabbit]

I thought you said before that there was no law?

he did, and don't let him fool you. that's why i told you he can't admit there was a law governing marriage.

all he is going to do is parse.

 

[Dutch42]

I notice you said the sabbath is the only commandment of the 10cs to not be taught in the N.T. Would you agree then that Paul and Jesus teach 9 of the 10 commandments to Gentile Christians?

Well not only the 9 commands who are given at mnt Sinai. Jesus and Paul taught a lot more. Like love God above all, and your neighbour like your self.. (see Mt 22:37-40, Dt 6:5, Lev 19:1)

All the commands are in this... two commands... it is not only to do.. it with your mind.. but to do it with your heart.

 

[11822]

Well not only the 9 commands who are given at mnt Sinai. Jesus and Paul taught a lot more. Like love God above all, and your neighbour like your self.. (see Mt 22:37-40, Dt 6:5, Lev 19:1)

All the commands are in this... two commands... it is not only to do.. it with your mind.. but to do it with your heart.

I agree

 

[Dutch42]

I agree

The question if we have to keep al the Jewish commands.. is actually irrelevant.. because 613 commands are based and written in the talmud. (Makkot 23b)

Interesting is the writing from D.Hausdorf: from Adam till Ezra (translated)
He said: The 10 words are written in two tables.
first table is relationship God-human
* There is only one God, who took us from Egypt
We have to understand that the Lord watch over us, in everything.

* Serve only God, don't make idols
God is the only one who is in controle. No other force/power got the final word. Everybody got a special relationship with the Lord. You have to respect that.

* Don't speak the name of God without a reason
God is your Creator. He is your King. Not like a normal friend.

* honour the 7th day of the week, the Shabbath. Don't work at that day
This day is to serve God. That we don't forget the relationship with him.

* hounour your father and your mother always
We have to be thankful to the one by authority of God, who gave us the live.(Not literally translated, but in my own words) In the talmud is written; The wine belongs to the hostess, but it belongs to the waiter too.

The second table is the relationship between human and human
* don't kill a person
Everybody is created by Gods image. You have to respect it. For the Lord this person is important. So, he had to be important for you too.

* don't marry a woman who is married already.. (or got a relationship with her)
love is not a free letter (I don't know if this is a right English saying)to righteous everything.

* don't steel
Try not advantage your self, by what is not yours

* don't lie
Every person is a judge. So we have to be righteous.

* don't be jealous
Be happy if your neighbour is succesful. Share in the sorrows from your neighbour.

This is a Jewish point of view of the 10 commands. Published by the Dutch-Israeli community(Not Messianic).

The Law or Torah is meaning teaching. And, the most Christians are thinking in Laws instead of teaching. And that was just the problem what I think with the Pharisee in the time of Jesus and Paul.

When we read Rom 14. I think the principe of the Torah is there written. If you do some. Do it for the Lord. Not because other people think you have to do. You got a relationship with the Lord. But the pitfall of the human (and I am talking to myself too) we argue a lot about the Lord.. about the Bible and we are doing that without the Lord. But it is our conviction.. and forget that the person him/her self got a relationship too with the Lord. We are rude, and forget to be respectful.

 

[BloodyRachel]

The question if we have to keep al the Jewish commands.. is actually irrelevant.. because 613 commands are based and written in the talmud. (Makkot 23b) .

The 613 commandments are ALL in the Old Testament. Just read it. You'll see.

 

[ghendricks63]

The 613 commandments are ALL in the Old Testament. Just read it. You'll see.

Yes they are all there. And they are Old Covenant.

 

[Brak]

* Don't speak the name of God without a reason
God is your Creator. He is your King. Not like a normal friend.

Now that is one "command" I definitely intend to blow off.

 

[Dutch42]

The 613 commandments are ALL in the Old Testament. Just read it. You'll see.

I know that they all inspired from the Old Testament.. But I don't think it is divine inspirated:

When we look for example the mitzwot don't cook meat in the milk (like Ex 23:19) There is written: "Thou shalt not boil a kid in his mother’s milk.

So that is totally different than don't cook meat in milk.

Or.. the mitzwot don't eat meat with milk...

or; Not to appoint as a judge, a person who is not well versed in the laws of the Torah, even if he is expert in other branches of knowledge (Deut. 1:17)

That is not written in Dt 1:17..

and there are a lot of other mitzowts too.. So I agree,.. the 613 commands are inspired from the Old Testament.. but not all are written in the Old Testament.

What doesn't mean that they are bad..

 

[Dutch42]

Now that is one "command" I definitely intend to blow off.

That is possible .. that is your opinion..

 

[11822]

The question if we have to keep al the Jewish commands.. is actually irrelevant.. because 613 commands are based and written in the talmud. (Makkot 23b)

Interesting is the writing from D.Hausdorf: from Adam till Ezra (translated)
He said: The 10 words are written in two tables.
first table is relationship God-human
* There is only one God, who took us from Egypt
We have to understand that the Lord watch over us, in everything.

* Serve only God, don't make idols
God is the only one who is in controle. No other force/power got the final word. Everybody got a special relationship with the Lord. You have to respect that.

* Don't speak the name of God without a reason
God is your Creator. He is your King. Not like a normal friend.

* honour the 7th day of the week, the Shabbath. Don't work at that day
This day is to serve God. That we don't forget the relationship with him.

* hounour your father and your mother always
We have to be thankful to the one by authority of God, who gave us the live.(Not literally translated, but in my own words) In the talmud is written; The wine belongs to the hostess, but it belongs to the waiter too.

The second table is the relationship between human and human
* don't kill a person
Everybody is created by Gods image. You have to respect it. For the Lord this person is important. So, he had to be important for you too.

* don't marry a woman who is married already.. (or got a relationship with her)
love is not a free letter (I don't know if this is a right English saying)to righteous everything.

* don't steel
Try not advantage your self, by what is not yours

* don't lie
Every person is a judge. So we have to be righteous.

* don't be jealous
Be happy if your neighbour is succesful. Share in the sorrows from your neighbour.

This is a Jewish point of view of the 10 commands. Published by the Dutch-Israeli community(Not Messianic).

The Law or Torah is meaning teaching. And, the most Christians are thinking in Laws instead of teaching. And that was just the problem what I think with the Pharisee in the time of Jesus and Paul.

When we read Rom 14. I think the principe of the Torah is there written. If you do some. Do it for the Lord. Not because other people think you have to do. You got a relationship with the Lord. But the pitfall of the human (and I am talking to myself too) we argue a lot about the Lord.. about the Bible and we are doing that without the Lord. But it is our conviction.. and forget that the person him/her self got a relationship too with the Lord. We are rude, and forget to be respectful.

Again i agree. You make allot of sense

 

[from scratch]

I thought you said before that there was no law?

Please read my post again very carefully this time.

 

[from scratch]

By the way Im a brother in Christ, not a law pusher. Im a brother and law of Christ defender. If Jesus teaches it, i defend it.

A person is known by their actions and you push the law. Now you may very well be a fellow Christian. I'm not on record saying your not. If so why do you seek to convert me to what I consider and unbiblical postion. The Bible clearly states the Christian isn't obligated to the law and with more than one or two references. I'm very sorry that you're offended.

 

[from scratch]

who is saying that salvation can be earned? seems like you're the one blowing that horn!

Really? Where?

you have never seen where i subscribe to that! i don't even know why you mentioned it.

Jesus didn't teach the commandments? wow.

yet, He told the man, if you would enter into life, keep the commandments.

What? Where? Jesus told a young rich man that ask an ignorant question for a Jew, What good thing can I do? Where does Jesus even imply that one could keep the commandments? Jesus (God) certainly would know the law. Jesus gave him the correct answer. The problem is that no mere man has ever been able to comply. And the Scripture says so as I have already stated. Ps 14:3, 53:3 and Isa 64:6. There are numerous NT verses implying and state the same. But the young rich man didn't have that benefit and therefore I didn't uses them.

Jesus said - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus also says this about Himself - 1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. 7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

who are we to believe? you or the Christ?

Please bekieve Jesus.

 

[11822]

Please read my post again very carefully this time.

You said: "As a law pusher would argue marriage is before the law and thus outside of the law. Marriage was created and sanctioned in the garden. Now divorece is part of the law".




And don't we still observe the law of adultery and divorce? Which means there is law that we follow?

 

[from scratch]

what part of the law is valid? and how can that be, since you say the law is indivisible?

Now just how am I supposed to answer that and not be shown to be a fool. A wise man can't answer such in a way that you'd accept.

remember, the law?

Why Yeppers I do! Why do you ask?

 

[from scratch]

marriage is before the law, therefore it is outside of the law? remember the law?

that don't even make sense.

so, when adam and eve were married, was there a law that governed their marriage?

I'm very delighted to see you come to such a conclusion. Remember the sabbath day is said by the law pusher to be before the law and therefore not dismissable with the ceremonial law. Well marriage prededes that and it stands to reason the same principle would apply. Now why would Adam have any need of the law concerning adultery? Just exactly who is he going to commit the act with? Adam and Eve are the only 2 humans on the planet. Poor Adam what is he going to do?

 

[JohnRabbit]

[/COLOR]Now just how am I supposed to answer that and not be shown to be a fool. A wise man can't answer such in a way that you'd accept.

remember, the law?

Why Yeppers I do! Why do you ask?[/QUOTE]

you said it. i'm just trying to get a clearer understanding of what you are saying.

you can answer but you won't, because you think i'm looking for the "gotcha".

 

[11822]

A person is known by their actions and you push the law. Now you may very well be a fellow Christian. I'm not on record saying your not. If so why do you seek to convert me to what I consider and unbiblical postion. The Bible clearly states the Christian isn't obligated to the law and with more than one or two references. I'm very sorry that you're offended.

No im pushing the Gospel whether you want to call it by the truth or not. You're labeling me according to your own biased opinion. Paul shows much tolerance in Romans 14 for those who observe days and eat food according to the law. He shows some tolerance to people observing unnecessary laws for the sake of brotherly love, he only condemns them when they say it is the way to salvation, or teaching circumcision for obvious reasons. If paul can show tolerance to food laws, why not show me some for talking about obeying good laws such as abstaining from fornication? Hes not keen on people preaching Righteousness through works or circumcisioon and for good reason. But you seem to take it further than He does, you seem to exclude laws Paul teaches.

 

[from scratch]

he did, and don't let him fool you. that's why i told you he can't admit there was a law governing marriage.

all he is going to do is parse.

I ask you to show there was on day 6 of creation such a thing.

 

[JohnRabbit]

I'm very delighted to see you come to such a conclusion. Remember the sabbath day is said by the law pusher to be before the law and therefore not dismissable with the ceremonial law. Well marriage prededes that and it stands to reason the same principle would apply. Now why would Adam have any need of the law concerning adultery? Just exactly who is he going to commit the act with? Adam and Eve are the only 2 humans on the planet. Poor Adam what is he going to do?

so i guess they were the only people that got married before the time of moses!