Fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe.

[Pachomius]

What is the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe?

As a Christian theist I will say that the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe is that God is the creator of the universe.

What about other Christians here and also non-Christians?



Pachomius

 

[Tinker Grey]

Since I do not know that God exists, I cannot know its relation to the universe.

However if a god were to exist, one might wonder whether it would merit the title if it did not create the universe. Nevertheless, many religions have existed that did not entail their god(s) creating the universe.

As for the Christian god, I wonder what makes a concept fundamental. Second, what does being the creator of something mean with respect to being "in relation to" that something?

 

[SithDoughnut]

My belief is pretty obvious and doesn't really answer the question, but there are several concepts of what God is, and so the relationship between God and the universe depends upon the idea you have of each.

You've got monotheism, which generally portrays God as the creator of the universe and the controller of it. Similar to this is deism, which in some ways is similar to monotheism (not surprising as it evolved in a monotheistic culture) but generally has a more withdrawn God character. Some deists still believe that God governs the universe but others believe that he created it and left.

Then there's pantheism and panentheism. Pantheism the idea that the universe and God are synonymous, but panentheism takes this further and states that the universe is part of God, and God extends beyond it. Both of them have a much closer relationship between God and the universe than monotheism.

After that there's polytheism; several gods in relation to the universe. They fulfil various roles, perhaps with one God being a creator while others are concerned with other aspects.

Finally, there's transtheism. I don't know a lot about it, but it basically puts God/gods as the governer(s) of the universe. This becomes unimportant, though, as it is possible to transcend them (hence the name), and there is a power higher than God.

There you go - several fundamental concepts.

 

[Pachomius]

As I said as a Christian for myself the fundamental concept of God in Christianity is God is the creator of the universe.

[...]

As for the Christian god, I wonder what makes a concept fundamental. Second, what does being the creator of something mean with respect to being "in relation to" that something?

The title of the thread is:

What is the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe?
​

Well, I guess if you cannot understand the question, then I it would be a distraction for everybody if I am going into explaining to you what the question is all about.

Tell you what, type that question into the search box of Google and see what hits it returns, and whether they give you an idea of what the question is all about, and if you are interested in answering the question.

If from the hits returned by Google you cannot get any idea what the question is all about, I must excuse you from participating in this thread.



Pachomius

 

[Tim Myers]

Could it be said that God is the universe??......

 

[Pachomius]

Could it be said that God is the universe??......

As far as I know my Christian faith, that is not the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe.

In the Christian faith the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe is that God is the creator of the universe.



Pachomius

 

[Tim Myers]

In the Christian faith the fundamental concept of God in relation to everything is that God is the creator of everything.

Another fundamental concept in the Christian faith is that God is a part of everything and everything is a part of God.

 

[Pachomius]

In the Christian faith the fundamental concept of God in relation to everything is that God is the creator of everything.

Another fundamental concept in the Christian faith is that God is a part of everything and everything is a part of God.

You say:

Another fundamental concept in the Christian faith is that God is a part of everything and everything is a part of God.​

I am not really conversant with that statement being an accepted teaching of the Christian faith.

God is a part of everything and everything is a part of God?

And is that fundamental to the concept of God in relation to the universe?

Perhaps by way of poetic license we can say that God is a part of everything and everything is a part of God, in the sense that God is present in everything and everything is present in God.

But we are not in poetry but in philosophy.


Come to think about it, perhaps philosophy is poetry, in which case then philosophy instead of making things more clear in terms of logic, as poetry it will render things fuzzy?

What does Paul say quoting some earlier source to himself, that in God we live and move and have our being?


Anyway, I am glad that if you are not a Christian you do know that the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe is "that God is the creator of everything."

Understanding everything as the universe that is distinct from God because it is the effect of God's creation.


My purpose in this thread is to find out whether atheists know what in the Christian faith is the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe.

Because they routinely go off in a tangent to bring in all kinds of concepts that have nothing to do with the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe, for example, Santa Claus.




Pachomius

 

[elopez]

Could it be said that God is the universe??......

If you want to be considered pantheistic, whereas Christianity seems to say that while God created the universe He is distinct from it, that is existing 'apart' from the created universe.

 

[elopez]

Also, if God is the universe and we are taking that literally, then is that to say that the universe has always existed or God had a beginning?

 

[Tim Myers]

"God is a part of everything and everything is a part of God?"

Name something that is not a part of God or God is not a part of.......

 

[Tim Myers]

"If you want to be considered pantheistic........"

I did not meant it in a nonanthropomorphic way......

 

[quatona]

What is the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe?

Depends on which religion/denomination you ask.

As a Christian theist I will say that the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe is that God is the creator of the universe.

Thanks for your opinion.

What about other Christians here and also non-Christians?

Not sure what you are asking here. Are you asking what is my concept of "God in relation to the universe"? Or are you asking what I think should be the concept for Christians to hold?

 

[Gracchus]

What is the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe?

That is like asking what the relationship is between Russel's Teapot and the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the asteroid belt, or the Invisible Pink Unicorn and Beijing.

As a Christian theist I will say that the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe is that God is the creator of the universe.

What about other Christians here and also non-Christians?

Brahma creates, Vishnu preserves, and Shiva destroys. If a god is or gods arpostulated at all someone has made some baseless statement about his or their "fundamental" nature(s).

It is like asking whether Goldilocks had a blue hair ribbon or a red one, based upon a personality assessment.

 

[Pachomius]

Just focus on God in the Christian faith.

As I said for myself as a Christian theist the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe is that God is the creator of the universe.

So, if you are not acquainted with the concept of God in the Christian faith, please do some reading and learn what is God in the Christian faith.

Now, some people are saying or asking whether God -- and I always understand God as in the Christian faith, which I define insofar as a fundamental concept in relation to the universe: God is the creator of the universe -- whether God can be a part of the universe or of everything?

If we consider the universe as the one envisioned by proponents of the Big Bang theory, which is concerned with the material universe composed of ultimately particles and forces and laws of physics, and which according to these proponents have a beginning at which beginning also time and space began to exist, I have to say that God is not a part of the universe except by way of poetic license.

However, if we consider the much more vast domain of the whole totality of existence whatever, so that the Big Bang universe is also a part of the whole totality of existence, let us call it "twtoe," then I can take it that God for being an existing entity is a part or member of the twtoe, because as the creator already existing, He Himself is one among all the existing entities which He Himself also gives existence to.

It is like a robot inventor who produces a lot of robots wherefore he is the creator of these robots, giving them existence, but together with the robots he is a member of the whole collection of entities which exist, even though he does not owe his existence to the robots but the robots owe their existence to him.

Yes, I think God can be and is a part of the twtoe, the whole totality of existence, namely, that collection of all existing entities whatever that do exist anywhere, anytime, anyhow.



Pachomius

 

[Asvin]

In the Christian faith the fundamental concept of God in relation to everything is that God is the creator of everything.

Another fundamental concept in the Christian faith is that God is a part of everything and everything is a part of God.

Everything? Even Satan? I don't think so!

I think the Christian view is that God is the creator of everything that existed/exists/will exist! He is all powerful, all knowing, and just!

 

[Pachomius]

The more I think about it the more I can see the logic in a way that God is a part of everything and everything is a part of God.

But here is the big difference, in that God the part of everything and in which everything is a part of, that God is the creator God.

He brings to existence everything else with a beginning, Himself however is always existing, there cannot be said of Him that He began to exist unlike everything outside of Him began to exist from the point when He created them.

Secondly, God keeps everything in existence that is not Himself, and He keeps them in operation.

And thirdly, God can take away existence from everything that He has created.


That is the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe, in the Christian faith.

This concept is essentially very versatile, so that if science comes to something that is essentially new which mankind has never experienced, or inferred from the data of experience, then God is also the creator of this new discovery of science.


Now, Satan is a creation of God, and Satan is supposed to be evil, so God created Satan evil?

Or He created Satan good in the sense that existence is good, to be desired, and non-existence is evil, not to be desired.

As we are already existing we are in possession of a good, and it is the nature of everything in existence to continue, in the case of free conscious beings like mankind, the drive is to conserve existence and life, unless abnormally a person wants and dose execute a self-termination because his life is too unbearable owing to the physical or moral evils that he does not see any possibility of overcoming or escaping from.

God created Satan good in giving Satan existence, that is the doctrine of the Christian faith -- unless some Christian has another doctrine.

But Satan rebelled against God, that is the evil of Satan, rebellion against God.

Then is God to be blamed for Satan's rebellion, Satan's evil? The first cause is answerable for the last effect?


I have read a Jewish writer and come to know that in Jewish theology God is also the creator of evil.

In the Christian faith God is dispensed by Christians from answerability to the existence of moral evil from the part of free, conscious, intelligent beings like men and angels.

How to reconcile God as the author of all creation and His exemption from answerability for the morally evil acts of men and angels?

That is a mystery: on the one one God cannot be blamed for the evil acts of men and angels, on the other hand He is the author and operator of everything He has created and kept in operation.

That is the mystery of God the Creator and man (also angels) as free agents so that the evil that man does is not to be answered for by God.


That mystery does not diminish the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe, namely, He is the creator of the universe.



This thread is intended to find out what non-Christians, more specifically atheists, know about the fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe.

So, what do non-Christians and atheists know about the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe in the Christian faith?



Pachomius

 

[Tim Myers]

"And thirdly, God can take away existence from everything that He has created."

This is an idea that many, many people have spent many, many centuries thinking about, and pondering about, and arguing about......

Can God "un-create" something??

Once He brings something into existence, can He annihilate it in a way in which it utterly does not exist anymore??

Or must it continue to exist and "be," in some form or condition, for eternity??

 

[quatona]

That is a mystery: on the one one God cannot be blamed for the evil acts of men and angels, on the other hand He is the author and operator of everything He has created and kept in operation.

Gotta love it when in the midst of an attempt to make a logical explanation "now, that´s a mystery" pops up.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

"And thirdly, God can take away existence from everything that He has created."

This is an idea that many, many people have spent many, many centuries thinking about, and pondering about, and arguing about......

Can God "un-create" something??

Once He brings something into existence, can He annihilate it in a way in which it utterly does not exist anymore??

Or must it continue to exist and "be," in some form or condition, for eternity??

God makes things from 'spirit', and from 'eternal spirit'. Angels and demons are immortal and eternal, made from eternal spirit (as will we be in the resurrection). Everything else is made from simple 'spirit' and can be reclaimed from physical manifestation back to spirit at God's pleasure. The entire material universe will one day return to spirit, which will be retained by God, or contained in God.