Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments? (2)

[Elder 111]

Then why did you state that the person who asked you the question about the sabbath will not see God?

Because it is the one purposely ignored. You will keep 9 and will encourage all other to keep 9 but not the sabbath. AS much as you proclaim that the law is abolish you will not seek to violate the other 9 and will condemn any christian who will. But the Sabbath is abhorred.
In some cases the thief and the murderer is more accepted than the sabbath advocate as Barabbas More accpted than Christ.
The 10 commandments includes the sabbath when you say it is abolished and keep 9 and claiming you are doing it out of love do not make you guiltless. God did not separate them, what right have we to do so?
Does not the bible state that God is same yesterday, today and forever.

 

[Lysimachus]

MamaZ,

Please try to comprehend the difference between being justified by the law and only doers of the law being justified.

1. No one is justified BY the law (only by Christ)

2. Only doers of the law shall be justified.

"(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." (Romans 2:13)

It is not DOING the law that justifies you. But only DOERS shall be justified. Otherwise, it's just those who speak with their lips and do not do. A truly converted person will do, not to be saved, but because they have been saved.

Get it?

Is it clickin?

 

[MamaZ]

And Gods law is Love.. This is why we are told over and over that those who do not love do not know God. For God is love. The 10 have been fulfilled and we do not need to look at the do not dos. For if we truly love we would not even consider doing what is said thou shall not. Show me in the law where the 10 teach us to feed the hungry and clothe the naked? But yet we see Jesus saying when you did not do it for the least of me you did not do it unto me. Because I am saved I am motivated not by the Law but by the Love of God that has been shed abroad in my heart. This is where we seperate I believe in doctrine. Where in the 10 do we see how to love as God loved? For God so loved the World that He gave.

 

[MamaZ]

Because it is the one purposely ignored. You will keep 9 and will encourage all other to keep 9 but not the sabbath. AS much as you proclaim that the law is abolish you will not seek to violate the other 9 and will condemn any christian who will. But the Sabbath is abhorred.
In some cases the thief and the murderer is more accepted than the sabbath advocate as Barabbas More accpted than Christ.
The 10 commandments includes the sabbath when you say it is abolished and keep 9 and claiming you are doing it out of love do not make you guiltless. God did not separate them, what right have we to do so?
Does not the bible state that God is same yesterday, today and forever.

So then is your answer still then that if we do not keep the sabbath we will not see God?

 

[11822]

And Gods law is Love.. This is why we are told over and over that those who do not love do not know God. For God is love. The 10 have been fulfilled and we do not need to look at the do not dos. For if we truly love we would not even consider doing what is said thou shall not. Show me in the law where the 10 teach us to feed the hungry and clothe the naked? But yet we see Jesus saying when you did not do it for the least of me you did not do it unto me. Because I am saved I am motivated not by the Law but by the Love of God that has been shed abroad in my heart. This is where we seperate I believe in doctrine. Where in the 10 do we see how to love as God loved? For God so loved the World that He gave.

Just because the law of the 10 Cs doesnt say feed the poor this doesn't also mean the 10 are wrong to follow, as a matter of fact paul said the last 6 were acts of love.

And giving to the poor is not necessarily love.

1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

 

[Elder 111]

And Gods law is Love.. This is why we are told over and over that those who do not love do not know God. For God is love. The 10 have been fulfilled and we do not need to look at the do not dos. For if we truly love we would not even consider doing what is said thou shall not. Show me in the law where the 10 teach us to feed the hungry and clothe the naked? But yet we see Jesus saying when you did not do it for the least of me you did not do it unto me. Because I am saved I am motivated not by the Law but by the Love of God that has been shed abroad in my heart. This is where we seperate I believe in doctrine. Where in the 10 do we see how to love as God loved? For God so loved the World that He gave.

Do you realize that the love that you continue to mention as if it is all new is from the same OT and OC as the 10 commandments. Do you remember that Abraham met stranger and provided for them without a request to do? Do you remember Job saying that he went looking for and provided for the needy?
All the love that you are promoting always existed with the same 10 commandments.
All that you promote is not a replacement for nor is it against the commandments but works all hand in hand.

 

[Elder 111]

So then is your answer still then that if we do not keep the sabbath we will not see God?

Absolutely. There is no, way by the grace of God, that I am going to sacrifice my salvation in disobeying His direct commands because other believe and advocate to do so.
In it is clear that the law is written on the heart not abolished. Even a child is aware that He should not take that which is not his. Heb. 8 Jer. 31:31-34 Rom ,2: 12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
17Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;

Rom 3: 1What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

It was committed to them not that it was for them only that is the point I was trying make to you earlier. Salvation is of the Jews it is them that God used to reach the world just like He uses your pastor but what the pastor says is not for him alone.
8And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
Paul had the same problem then as now. persons saying what he did not say. The law abolished. Do you see that?
9What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
What does this mean to you? Does this not say that the law bear witness? If it does why remove it?

31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
What does that mean to you?
What do you do with Rom 4:
15Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
How do justify advocating that the law is abolished when it is clearly stated that without the there is no sin and that sin is a transgression of the law. What would it take to see basic facts?

 

[11822]

Romans 14 fulfills the law.

 

[from scratch]

MamaZ,

Please try to comprehend the difference between being justified by the law and only doers of the law being justified.

1. No one is justified BY the law (only by Christ)

2. Only doers of the law shall be justified.

"(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." (Romans 2:13)

It is not DOING the law that justifies you. But only DOERS shall be justified. Otherwise, it's just those who speak with their lips and do not do. A truly converted person will do, not to be saved, but because they have been saved.

Get it?

Is it clickin?

Please explain how the numbered statements are not opposites.

 

[from scratch]

Just because the law of the 10 Cs doesnt say feed the poor this doesn't also mean the 10 are wrong to follow, as a matter of fact paul said the last 6 were acts of love.

And giving to the poor is not necessarily love.

1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

That's way dude! Jesus teaching isn't found in the law so simply dismiss it. Here I was led to believe and thought we're to follow Jesus.

 

[from scratch]

Do you realize that the love that you continue to mention as if it is all new is from the same OT and OC as the 10 commandments. Do you remember that Abraham met stranger and provided for them without a request to do? Do you remember Job saying that he went looking for and provided for the needy?
All the love that you are promoting always existed with the same 10 commandments.
All that you promote is not a replacement for nor is it against the commandments but works all hand in hand.

Both are before the law and the law doesn''t teach such or you'd cited it.

 

[from scratch]

Absolutely. There is no, way by the grace of God, that I am going to sacrifice my salvation in disobeying His direct commands because other believe and advocate to do so.
In it is clear that the law is written on the heart not abolished. Even a child is aware that He should not take that which is not his. Heb. 8 Jer. 31:31-34 Rom ,2: 12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
17Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;

Rom 3: 1What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

It was committed to them not that it was for them only that is the point I was trying make to you earlier. Salvation is of the Jews it is them that God used to reach the world just like He uses your pastor but what the pastor says is not for him alone.
8And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
Paul had the same problem then as now. persons saying what he did not say. The law abolished. Do you see that?
9What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
What does this mean to you? Does this not say that the law bear witness? If it does why remove it?

31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
What does that mean to you?
What do you do with Rom 4:
15Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
How do justify advocating that the law is abolished when it is clearly stated that without the there is no sin and that sin is a transgression of the law. What would it take to see basic facts?

Will you please explain what you think establish the law means?

 

[from scratch]

You tried the spirit. not all is of God.
Have you taken s look at the comments on Rom. 2?

Sure have. You read chapter 3 yet? How bout Ps 14:3 and 53:3? There are no doers of the law and now one is justified by the law. Jesus said so in the Sermon on the Mount. Mat 5:20 to be exact.

 

[11822]

That's way dude! Jesus teaching isn't found in the law so simply dismiss it. Here I was led to believe and thought we're to follow Jesus.

Mt 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. 10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. 11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. 12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.


Mathew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Mt 15:16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? 17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Ro 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Ro 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Ro 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[from scratch]

I have said over and over and you refuse to understand.

1. Take a look at what Rom 2 is saying, I have posted some of it here.
2. I have stated that salvation is in Christ.
3. I have stated that we are save by grace through faith.
4. I have stated that we keep the law because we are saved not to be saved. You do the same but you want to deny the 10 commandments because you know that you should not lie or steal or murder but the Sabbath is ugly before you and your friends. On no occasion has anyone who have told me that the law is abolish would agree to violating the 9 other rules. As much love and all the other reason put forward. IT IS STILL THE COMMANDMENTS LESS ONE.

And yet it is promoted that one is justified in keeping the law. What gives? Uncle!

 

[from scratch]

We do offer sacrifices today. Every day. And that Altar that we offer our sacrifices on is in HEAVEN. Please read the following carefully:

The prophet Isaiah foresaw the Sabbath reform in New Covenant age:

The work of Sabbath reform to be accomplished in the last days is foretold in the prophecy of Isaiah:

"(1) Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. (2) Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. (3) Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. (4) For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; (5) Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. (6) Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; (7) Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people." Isaiah 56:1-7.
​

These words apply in the Christian age, as shown by the context:

"(8 ) The Lord God which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him."
​

Here is foreshadowed the gathering in of the Gentiles by the gospel. And upon those who then honor the Sabbath, a blessing is pronounced. Thus the obligation of the fourth commandment extends past the crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension of Christ, to the time when His servants should preach to all nations the message of glad tidings.

There have been some who have tried to pervert this prophecy by declaring that the reason Isaiah 56 cannot be foretelling of Sabbath keeping in the New Covenant is because verse 7 states: "their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar." In other words, since Christians will not be sacrificing or presenting burnt offerings in the New Covenant, this "cannot mean that gentiles will be keeping the Sabbath in the New Covenant age" according to the argument.

However, this argument will prove hopelessly astray in light of the fact that, yes, Christians today are still to bring their offerings and sacrifices before God in the New Covenant age.

First off, there was no "gathering" of any gentiles or "outcasts" until the time of reformation when Jesus came as the Messiah and the disciples turned to the gentiles. See John 11:52; Matthew 3:9; Acts 13:46-48; Ephesians 2; 1 Peter 1:1; 2:9,10.

Second, verse 7 of the same chapter in Isaiah says that these Christians will be brought to "my holy mountain". Paul tells Christians who are living by faith that they "are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels." (Heb 12:22)

We also see how Isaiah 56:7 meets its antitype in the following New Testament passages:

“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.” (Romans 12:1)
​

“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.” (Romans 6:6)

"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 2:5)

"And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." (Mark 12:33)

"By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased." (Hebrews 13:15,16)

"And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour." (Ephesians 2:5)

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Galatians 5:24)
​

And concerning the sprinkling of blood we find:

"Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water." (Hebrews 10:22)
​

We see this reality also being fulfilled in Hebrews 10 pertaining how the ceremonial services of burnt offerings and sacrifices were abolished, and replaced by spiritual sacrifices in Christ Jesus. Another good example might be that when we “die daily” (1 Cor 15:31), we are fulfilling the antitypical reality of these prophecies in Isaiah 56. We are presenting our bodies a living sacrifice before Christ our High Priest who intercedes before us, and crucifying our desires to sin. And this includes sacrificing our our desires to do as we please, or performing whatever duties we desire during those sacred hours for which God sanctified at creation, the Holy Sabbath day. May we not be deceived by thinking that this is a form of "works" or "legalism", or any form of "bondage". Physically keeping the Sabbath is NO different than the physical keeping of honoring your parents and not committing adultery. The Sabbath was meant to be a delight, because God KNEW we as humans needed this quality time with Him.

Let us not "wilfully" transgress that which we know to be right.

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." (Hebrews 10:26)
​

Hebrews 10:26 perspeciously demonstrates that when we wilfully go out of our way to trample God's law, there remains no more sacrifice for sins. This means that Christ cannot mediate or atone for a sin that is not repented of and forsaken--it means He cannot atone for that which we choose to deny as sin!

Let us not choose to trample and chisel out one of God's divine and royal 10 commandments for which are engraved on the Heavenly tables in God's Temple!

We see therefore that this Old Testament prophecy pointing to the New Covenant Age when the Gentiles will be keeping the Sabbath Holy from polluting it, is sure! The truth of the Sabbath message has been greatly spread and will continue to spread throughout the globe ever since the precious rays of light were discovered in the New World beginning with the grand awakening of the Blessed Hope in the 1830s and 40s, and we can see this prophecy fulfilling before our very eyes as many Christians feel convicted by the Holy Spirit to keep it Holy and proclaim its sacred truth more fully--as to what it REALLY means to keep the Sabbath! Not legalistically like the Jewish Pharisees in the faulty Old Covenant spirit which was based on works and poor promises, but in the New Covenant experience based on faith!

We are now to live in accord with the ORIGINAL and BETTER Testament in heaven for which Christ has made a "surety" of! (Hebrews 7:22). This IS the Tables of the Testimony in Heaven!!! Oh how I urge the reader from the bottom of my heart to take a hold of this sacred present-truth!

It's time to WAKE UP and quit making excuses to desecrate God's Holy Sabbath Day! Enough is enough!

Reach your word limit?

 

[from scratch]

I am getting what you are saying and I don't agree but you are implying things that I did not say. We agree up to the point of the 10 commandments.
In other words the same path by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to Christ. Grace and Faith.
I maintain that with all that I will walk in righteousness before God and as Rom 2 states and as I have quoted earlier, the 10 commandments is part of that righteous walk.

IOW something more is required than Acts 16:31 and Roman 10:9-10 state. Jesus musta been a fibbin to Nicodemus too.

 

[from scratch]

Because it is the one purposely ignored. You will keep 9 and will encourage all other to keep 9 but not the sabbath. AS much as you proclaim that the law is abolish you will not seek to violate the other 9 and will condemn any christian who will. But the Sabbath is abhorred.
In some cases the thief and the murderer is more accepted than the sabbath advocate as Barabbas More accpted than Christ.
The 10 commandments includes the sabbath when you say it is abolished and keep 9 and claiming you are doing it out of love do not make you guiltless. God did not separate them, what right have we to do so?
Does not the bible state that God is same yesterday, today and forever.

Would this post apply in the 5,000,000 blessings thread? Here you claim that the 10 Cs are the law.

 

[11822]

Would this post apply in the 5,000,000 blessings thread? Here you claim that the 10 Cs are the law.

They do appear to be the law.

Mt 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. 10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. 11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. 12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.


Mathew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Mt 15:16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? 17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Ro 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Ro 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Ro 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[11822]

It makes sense that the law of the 10 Cs would be put in our heart because that's where it needs to be.

Mt 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.