Sola Scripturists guide on the authority of the Bible

[sunlover1]

No it wasn't an accusation Sunlover, sorry !
As I said, it was an observation qualified by "it seems" - and based on discussions (and non-discussions ) here on GT.

No, I didn't mean "accuse" in a derogatory way. Well no more derogatory than
your "observation that we're legalistic" lol.
You must know me well enough by now Thekla to know that
MOST of the time my feathers are smooth. When they do get
ruffled it's usually over injustice... (not bragging... it's my inborn
nature.. there are some huge downsides to that sort of "complacent"
attitude, I'm not gonna lie)

Maybe examples will help ...

There is the apparently consistent view per the posts in the past week that "not Sola Scriptura" means "not valuing Scripture".

Hmm. that's odd because the only person I have seen mention this has
been you... Then again, i can't be everywhere always. Only God can
do that so he can be your witness I guess.
Anyhow, I guess that would make those who hold such a view, judgmental,
.. not sure why that would be called "legalistic" but w/e.

There seems to also be an emphasis among SS adherents that what is said (in the Scriptures) is more important than what is done.

What is said isn't more important than what is done.
An example of what is done that wasn't said would help though.
How do you know what was done if it wasn't said? Just curious.

Laws are statements, and Scripture seems to be treated almost wholly as a set of statements which are treated as laws.

Not at all. Scripture, .. is by it's very nature, a set of statements.
When I tried to explain that it's living, it was you who objected...
God's Word (speaking of both Jesus AND Scripture) brings life
first of all... incorruptible! 1 peter 1 (devil gotta be hating that),
brings truth! (obviously the father of lies will be hating that as well)
Thy word O God is truth! Brings revelation! ..The entrance of thy
Word brings LIGHT!
Not sure what gave you such an impression but it weren't me.
*shrugs.

Sorry this was so long in responding - it's been another "mom-bus" day

No worries, it gets better:
Been a mommy day AND a granny day for me.

I decided not to derail the thread by
commenting on each instance you noted.
(call no man father, vain repetition, etc.)
I've been handling the Word of God for many
years and while I have learned a lot in those
years, I still need to study to show myself
approved to God.. and learn to rightly divide..
like a good workman..
Takes lots of practice... so Scripture is in the
top 5 on my priority list.

I await some examples of things done but not 'said"
(or in this case, written)

God bless you.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Choose one.

Ok, how about this one.

. . in Protestantism -- in the final analysis -- no church or ecclesiastical authority can override the individual's own biblical interpretation if the latter deems the authority to be inconsistent with Scripture (since according to sola Scriptura, Scripture itself is regarded as the ultimate authority over against any church; . .

Does each Christian have a right to ultimate interpretative authority? If not where else does the authority lie?

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Btw, Montalban is unable to reply to your posts at the moment, so don't bother asking him any questions.

 

[Rick Otto]

Ok, how about this one.
Does each Christian have a right to ultimate interpretative authority? If not where else does the authority lie?

Each Christian has the ultimate responsibility to understand (interpret), scripture has the authority.
Only truth has authority. If you hold it in righteousness, you wield its legitimate authority.

 

[Rick Otto]

Montalban, why aren't you here to answer my question?!

 

[GQ Chris]

Lol. It seems like the EO Church has launched an all out assault on Sola Scriptura. If so, I have my guard up if I see any of yous out on the street.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Lol. It seems like the EO Church has launched an all out assault on Sola Scriptura. If so, I have my guard up if I see any of yous out on the street.

 

[Thekla]

No, I didn't mean "accuse" in a derogatory way. Well no more derogatory than
your "observation that we're legalistic" lol.
You must know me well enough by now Thekla to know that
MOST of the time my feathers are smooth. When they do get
ruffled it's usually over injustice... (not bragging... it's my inborn
nature.. there are some huge downsides to that sort of "complacent"
attitude, I'm not gonna lie)

That's soothing

Hmm. that's odd because the only person I have seen mention this has
been you... Then again, i can't be everywhere always. Only God can
do that so he can be your witness I guess.
Anyhow, I guess that would make those who hold such a view, judgmental,
.. not sure why that would be called "legalistic" but w/e.

Because, in a sense, it's dividing something living into bits. It's more like a dissection/law than an interaction/relating.

(One example is the insistence that we place Scripture as lower than Tradition when Scripture is Tradition.)

What is said isn't more important than what is done.
An example of what is done that wasn't said would help though.
How do you know what was done if it wasn't said? Just curious.

I described this before in your Tradition thread:

The question is sort of 'backwards' - Tradition is the ongoing action of the Holy Spirit in the Church, received and maintained. The Scripture is part of Tradition.
The "mind of the Church", it's ethos, the disposition, the manner of the walk, the demonstration of the Gospels in the lives who have walked Christ most fully, the "priorities", the revelation received, understood, and later recorded in the Scripture (thus also interpretation) - this is in part what equips us that is sometimes more and sometimes less seen/glimpsed etc. in the part of Tradition known as Scripture.
Some of this is hard to describe, such as the "sensibility" of worship that is maintained and then also recorded in Scripture.

For particular "teachings" - the form of worship, the disposition of those in worship, the direction of worship, the sign of the cross, triple immersion in baptism, what is done before baptism, the real presence, attitude toward creation, understanding of the fall, etc.

Not at all. Scripture, .. is by it's very nature, a set of statements.
When I tried to explain that it's living, it was you who objected...
God's Word (speaking of both Jesus AND Scripture) brings life
first of all... incorruptible! 1 peter 1 (devil gotta be hating that),
brings truth! (obviously the father of lies will be hating that as well)
Thy word O God is truth! Brings revelation! ..The entrance of thy
Word brings LIGHT!
Not sure what gave you such an impression but it weren't me.
*shrugs.

It includes direct statements but also narrative descriptions, order of events, echoes in the form of typology - for example. Thus, the period of instruction before reception into "full communion" (in the Gospels) is repeated in the Acts and epistles (though the length of time varies in particular instances). It also includes the "way" of doing things - and the way of handing over includes from whom to what.

Paul is quite clear, Scripture must be energized in us. Yes, creation was spoken into being; but, Scripture can be used amiss (as evidenced by Satan). It requires "hearing"; even Christ speaking directly was not always "heard".

No worries, it gets better:
Been a mommy day AND a granny day for me.

God give me strength

I decided not to derail the thread by
commenting on each instance you noted.
(call no man father, vain repetition, etc.)
I've been handling the Word of God for many
years and while I have learned a lot in those
years, I still need to study to show myself
approved to God.. and learn to rightly divide..
like a good workman..
Takes lots of practice... so Scripture is in the
top 5 on my priority list.

As these occur within Scripture - the center of the thread discussion - I think the investigation of particular instances is instructive.

We will all need to continue in the race (as Paul said) in all aspects, indeed !

I await some examples of things done but not 'said"
(or in this case, written)

God bless you.

Sorry to repeat my definition of Tradition, but again paradosis does not distinguish (by definition) the what from the way (how, and also to what - which is shown in Scripture).

As before, a list cannot be made to stand in for a person - any person; and this is the same for Tradition. I do hope the "sort of" list I gave helps.

God with you +

 

[Rick Otto]

Scripture is Tradition.

I think you mislead by that mistatement. More proper to the way I think you mean it would be to say "Scripture is part of tradition." Because "tradition" includes so much more than scripture.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

I think you mislead by that mistatement. More proper to the way I think you mean it would be to say "Scripture is part of tradition." Because "tradition" includes so much more than scripture.

I would say that scripture is supported by and bound up within tradition, while at the same time not being separate from it.

 

[Rick Otto]

Does each Christian have a right to ultimate interpretative authority? If not where else does the authority lie?

Each Christian has the responsibility to interpret. The truth is authority. Each Christian is responsible for knowing the truth.
Only Scripture, only truth itself has ultimate authority.
ultimately, only you interperet & make sense of what you perceive.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Each Christian has the responsibility to interpret. The truth is authority. Each Christian is responsible for knowing the truth.
Only Scripture, only truth itself has ultimate authority.
ultimately, only you interperet & make sense of what you perceive.

So where's the church in all this?

 

[Rick Otto]

So where's the church in all this?

studying their bibles with each other.

 

[Philothei]

Each Christian has the responsibility to interpret. The truth is authority. Each Christian is responsible for knowing the truth.
Only Scripture, only truth itself has ultimate authority.
ultimately, only you interperet & make sense of what you perceive.

Where in the Bible it says we should do this ?

 

[Thekla]

Each Christian has the responsibility to interpret. The truth is authority. Each Christian is responsible for knowing the truth.
Only Scripture, only truth itself has ultimate authority.
ultimately, only you interperet & make sense of what you perceive.

I think only the Truth has authority ... Christ.
The closer we come to Him, the "more truth" we see in Scripture (and the more we see Christ in more than Scripture ...).

 

[Ortho_Cat]

studying their bibles with each other.

Scripture cannot act as an authority unless someone interprets it.

So the ultimate authority is in the individual then. Sounds like a church of popes to me!

I guess whoever has the biggest stick (or in this case, the most persuasive interpretation) wins!

 

[Rick Otto]

Scripture cannot act as an authority unless someone interprets it. So the ultimate authority is in the individual then. Sounds like a church of popes to me! I guess whoever has the biggest stick (or in this case, the most persuasive interpretation) wins!

In the best of possible situations, The Holy Spirit carries the most persuasive stick.
But Satan can quote scripture (which is not to say he knows them).
Still prayer helps & for the most part, we pretty much agree on stuff, at least to the point where we are recognized as a major world religion.
I might have some typos. My dog is attacking me with his toys.

 

[Rick Otto]

I think only the Truth has authority ... Christ.
The closer we come to Him, the "more truth" we see in Scripture (and the more we see Christ in more than Scripture ...).

That's what I'm sayin'.
That's why even if we have it, it's no good unless we hold it- carry & use it - in righteousness. Not self-righteousness, but the righteousness of Christ - self sacrificial love.
(boom, boom )

 

[Rick Otto]

Where in the Bible it says we should do this ?

The Bible says we live by his word, so knowing it is necessary:
Matt4:4: Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God
The Bible instructs us to use reason, & to do so with God:
Isa1:18: Come now, and let usreason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
The Bible instructs us to to be able to explain what we believe:
1Peter3:15: But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give ananswer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

None of which is possible unless you interperet what you see & hear.
It is the plain & simple act of understanding. We don't need the bible to tell us to do it much more than we need to be told to breathe, to eat & drink I would think, but there you are for starters. It's an idea that is almost as common to scripture as is the idea of the people mentioned in scriptures breathing, eating &/or drinking.

 

[Rick Otto]

So where's the church in all this?

Sometimes it's OK not to know where the Church is. Sometimes it's all right to be all alone with God.