Sola Scripturists guide on the authority of the Bible

[Thekla]

Sometimes it's OK not to know where the Church is. Sometimes it's all right to be all alone with God.

The Scriptures demonstrate both

 

[heymikey80]

Well, better stop celebrating Easter and Christmas, because they are non-scriptural traditions...best to go back to celebrating passover methinks....

Well, if y'check, Passover has a distinct practice among Christians as instituted by ... Jesus ... in ... the Scripture.

Christmas, not so much. Celebrating birthdays wasn't that big a thing in ancient Palestine. Although celebrations like the Feast of Booths might constitute a precedent.

Taking points to extreme is an interesting way to deal with a problem, but it's not a particularly secure means of argument. There're certainly other motives than "following the Apostolic Successionist Church".

 

[Rick Otto]

There're certainly other motives than "following the Apostolic Successionist Church".

Amen. Do we equate that with following the truth? It is the easy equations that lead us into trouble. That's why definitions are important. Not to be legalistic, but sometimes dissection is necessary for deep observation. Often enough there are spots & areas of ambiguity in our ideas & thinking due to our own ignorance & confusion, that get exploited by the 'angels of our lower nature' so to speak.
The ordination ritual wasn't a uniformly observed tradition.

 

[Rick Otto]

The Scriptures demonstrate both

Amen. Sciptura Demonstrata.

 

[Philothei]

The Bible says we live by his word, so knowing it is necessary:
Matt4:4: Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God

God ONLY speaks through the Bible .? Read it again God can speak to me in prayer Is the answer that I get from God in the Bible that is NOT what this says
Then all prophesy should have been recorded and it is not!
Also you confine EVERY word that comes out of God's mouth to the Bible... God speaks outside of Scripture too or then the Bible would have said: ONLY what is written is what I speak:o

The Bible instructs us to use reason, & to do so with God:
Isa1:18: Come now, and let usreason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Human reasoning falls into the tradition of men again this can be false But the word TOGETHER makes sense when we the Bible says also to go the "church" or the Elders to get counsel

The Bible instructs us to to be able to explain what we believe:
1Peter3:15: But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give ananswer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

None of which is possible unless you interperet what you see & hear.
It is the plain & simple act of understanding. We don't need the bible to tell us to do it much more than we need to be told to breathe, to eat & drink I would think, but there you are for starters. It's an idea that is almost as common to scripture as is the idea of the people mentioned in scriptures breathing, eating &/or drinking.

This is what this refers to in context:
Suffering for Doing Good

8 Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble. 9 Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. 10 For,

“Whoever would love life
and see good days
must keep their tongue from evil
and their lips from deceitful speech.
11 They must turn from evil and do good;
they must seek peace and pursue it.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous
and his ears are attentive to their prayer,
but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.”[a] 13 Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good? 14 But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. “Do not fear their threats[b]; do not be frightened.”[c] 15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. 17 For it is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive,[d] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[e] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
1 - Passage Lookup - New International Version, ©2011 - BibleGateway.com Peter+3&version=NIV


It has nothing to do with interpreting it has to do with perseverence on God's commandments and life in Christ...For it says: Who is going to harm you? he is talking about non-Christians trying to intemidate a faithful. I see no connection to interpretation here... I think it most says that we should be focused on Christ and how He suffered and emmulate his example. I see a pastoral epistle and no mention or reference to scripture at all...

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=Philothei;God ONLY speaks through the Bible.?

I don't & didn't say that. You digress.

Then all prophesy should have been recorded and it is not!

What prophecy did God leave out of the scriptures?

Also you confine EVERY word that comes out of God's mouth to the Bible...

No I don't. Just the verifiable words.

God speaks outside of Scripture too

I know, didn't deny, nor did I not allow for that by what i've said.

or then the Bible would have said: ONLY what is written is what I speak

the bible didn't say it, I didn't say it or imply it,... just that it is the only verifiable part of what he's spoken.

Human reasoning falls into the tradition of men again this can be false

Again, YOU said "human reasoning", not me. Use Godly reasoning, it's probably what God meant when he spoke thru Isaiah, don't you think so too?

But the word TOGETHER makes sense when we the Bible says also to go the "church" or the Elders to get counsel

It does, I do, & It & I never said otherwise.

This is what this refers to in context: Suffering for Doing Good It has nothing to do with interpreting it has to do with perseverence on God's commandments and life in Christ...For it says: Who is going to harm you? he is talking about non-Christians trying to intemidate a faithful. I see no connection to interpretation here... I think it most says that we should be focused on Christ and how He suffered and emmulate his example. I see a pastoral epistle and no mention or reference to scripture at all...

You couldn't be more wrong. I've seldom seen anything so irrelevant. It has nothing at all to do with suffering, it is about knowing what you're talking about when discussing your faith!!!
LOOk again PLEASE:1Peter3:15: But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Nothing at all about suffering for doing good, just be ready to explain (interperet) your faith with reason*.

*again, I did not sau "human" reason.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

You couldn't be more wrong. I've seldom seen anything so irrelevant. It has nothing at all to do with suffering, it is about knowing what you're talking about when discussing your faith!!!

Ah, the fruits of sola scriptura and the glorification of personal opinion in action...

 

[Dorothea]

God's Words are in the Bible, but God is not just in a book where we read about Him and what He has said for us to do and follow, but He is present in us and all around us. He is experienced.

 

[sunlover1]

God's Words are in the Bible, but God is not just in a book where we read about Him and what He has said for us to do and follow, but He is present in us and all around us. He is experienced.

Well, ideally that's how it SHOULD be anyhow. lol.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

Well, ideally that's how it SHOULD be anyhow. lol.

Agreed.

 

[MKJ]

Well, if y'check, Passover has a distinct practice among Christians as instituted by ... Jesus ... in ... the Scripture.

Christmas, not so much. Celebrating birthdays wasn't that big a thing in ancient Palestine. Although celebrations like the Feast of Booths might constitute a precedent.

Taking points to extreme is an interesting way to deal with a problem, but it's not a particularly secure means of argument. There're certainly other motives than "following the Apostolic Successionist Church".

I don't think it is really accurate to call Christmas a birthday celebration. I know we describe it that way to children, but that's an attempt to make it more real for them. (And actually I am not sure it is a great way to describe it to kids either.)

Christmas is a celebration and way to remember the of Incarnation of God. We are not wishing Jesus a Happy Birthday.

 

[Thekla]

I don't think it is really accurate to call Christmas a birthday celebration. I know we describe it that way to children, but that's an attempt to make it more real for them. (And actually I am not sure it is a great way to describe it to kids either.)

Christmas is a celebration and way to remember the of Incarnation of God. We are not wishing Jesus a Happy Birthday.

 

[Philothei]

I don't & didn't say that. You digress.
What prophecy did God leave out of the scriptures?
No I don't. Just the verifiable words.
I know, didn't deny, nor did I not allow for that by what i've said.
the bible didn't say it, I didn't say it or imply it,... just that it is the only verifiable part of what he's spoken.
Again, YOU said "human reasoning", not me. Use Godly reasoning, it's probably what God meant when he spoke thru Isaiah, don't you think so too?
It does, I do, & It & I never said otherwise.

You couldn't be more wrong. I've seldom seen anything so irrelevant. It has nothing at all to do with suffering, it is about knowing what you're talking about when discussing your faith!!!
LOOk again PLEASE:1Peter3:15: But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Nothing at all about suffering for doing good, just be ready to explain (interperet) your faith with reason*.

*again, I did not sau "human" reason.

Hey Dorothea aswered it perfectly and glas we all agree God is NOT the bible NOT all God said and did are IN the Bible... nuff said.
When is God speaking and human speaking? that is what you should be concerned with.....How do you sanctify the Lord God in your hearts? the answer is in there.... and Behold :
14 But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. “Do not fear their threats[b]; do not be frightened.”[c] 15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. 17 For it is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.

15κυριον δε τον χριστον αγιασατε εν ταις καρδιαις υμων ετοιμοι αει προς απολογιαν παντι τω αιτουντι υμας λογον περι της εν υμιν ελπιδος αλλα μετα πραυτητος και φοβου

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%203&version=WHNU

Do you see that it says that it does not mean the matters of faith but the "actions" you do ... for your Christian faith. IOW it means that you should justify your actions in Christ...I still do not see how this refers to the Bible

 

[Heavens]

Hey Dorothea aswered it perfectly and glas we all agree God is NOT the bible NOT all God said and did are IN the Bible... nuff said.
When is God speaking and human speaking? that is what you should be concerned with.....How do you sanctify the Lord God in your hearts? the answer is in there.... and Behold :
14 But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. “Do not fear their threats[b]; do not be frightened.”[c] 15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. 17 For it is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.

15κυριον δε τον χριστον αγιασατε εν ταις καρδιαις υμων ετοιμοι αει προς απολογιαν παντι τω αιτουντι υμας λογον περι της εν υμιν ελπιδος αλλα μετα πραυτητος και φοβου

1 Peter 3 - Passage Lookup - 1881 Westcott-Hort New Testament - BibleGateway.com

Do you see that it says that it does not mean the matters of faith but the "actions" you do ... for your Christian faith. IOW it means that you should justify your actions in Christ...I still do not see how this refers to the Bible

I personally know of no Christian who ever thinks they can "justify" their actions in Christ.
Jesus didn't even "justify" His actions in Christ. He spoke the Word out of scriptures and Lived the Word. Being the Word made flesh, we see the entire Old Testament Words fulfilled in His words and deeds.
How dependent upon scriptures was Jesus? How many times did He say, "it is written" prior to just about everything He said or did? So would a true Christian today. We Christians aren't greater than Jesus, who certainly quoted the Word and Lived it.

Those who do NOT think that what "is written" should be the inspiration of how we position ourselves before our Lord in His Holy Spirit, are not people I would have anything to do with.

Sola Scriptura guide is the only way to know Jesus and to receive His Holy Spirit and His Life Eternal. Anything else is simple rebellion and replacement of fact with religious carnal fiction.

 

[Rick Otto]

God's Words are in the Bible, but God is not just in a book where we read about Him and what He has said for us to do and follow, but He is present in us and all around us. He is experienced.

I've never said anything different.

 

[Rick Otto]

God ONLY speaks through the Bible.?

I don't & didn't say that. You digress.

Then all prophesy should have been recorded and it is not!

What prophecy did God leave out of the scriptures?

Also you confine EVERY word that comes out of God's mouth to the Bible...

No I don't. Just the verifiable words.

God speaks outside of Scripture too

I know, didn't deny, nor did I not allow for that by what i've said.

or then the Bible would have said: ONLY what is written is what I speak

the bible didn't say it, I didn't say it or imply it,... just that it is the only verifiable part of what he's spoken.

Human reasoning falls into the tradition of men again this can be false

Again, YOU said "human reasoning", not me. Use Godly reasoning, it's probably what God meant when he spoke thru Isaiah, don't you think so too?

This is what this refers to in context: Suffering for Doing Good It has nothing to do with interpreting it has to do with perseverence on God's commandments and life in Christ...For it says: Who is going to harm you? he is talking about non-Christians trying to intemidate a faithful. I see no connection to interpretation here... I think it most says that we should be focused on Christ and how He suffered and emmulate his example. I see a pastoral epistle and no mention or reference to scripture at all...

You couldn't be more wrong. I've seldom seen anything so irrelevant. It has nothing at all to do with suffering, it is about knowing what you're talking about when discussing your faith!!!

​

LOOk again PLEASE:1Peter3:15: But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Nothing at all about suffering for doing good, just be ready to explain (interperet) your faith with reason.

 

[Rick Otto]

Ah, the fruits of sola scriptura and the glorification of personal opinion in action...

OK, the fruit is she has a chance to see she's wrong that having a ready answer isn't the same as "Suffering for Good".
Who's glorifying opinion? That is your personal opinion that is happening & it is wrong of you to think so.
That was a wildly spurious comment & I don't at all appreciate it. You have no way of substantiating that egregiously false claim.
Either attempt to do so or retract it immediately, please.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

I personally know of no Christian who ever thinks they can "justify" their actions in Christ.
Jesus didn't even "justify" His actions in Christ.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

OK, the fruit is she has a chance to see she's wrong that having a ready answer isn't the same as "Suffering for Good".
Who's glorifying opinion? That is your personal opinion that is happening & it is wrong of you to think so.
That was a wildly spurious comment & I don't at all appreciate it. You have no way of substantiating that egregiously false claim.
Either attempt to do so or retract it immediately, please.

iginally Posted by Rick Otto

You couldn't be more wrong. I've seldom seen anything so irrelevant. It has nothing at all to do with suffering, it is about knowing what you're talking about when discussing your faith!!!

​

By posting this, you are basically saying that your opinion regarding scripture is the correct one (i.e. glorification of personal opinion). You are able to do so because technically according to sola scriptura, everyone's opinion regarding scripture is just as valid as the next. The difference in reality however, is that Philothei is speaking with 2000 years of church history on her side; hardly based on personal opinion, but rather on the concensus teachings of many. This is not just in reference to this particular verse; i am speaking of an entire manner or 'ethos' of using scripture. Sorry if I caused offense.

 

[Thekla]

I don't & didn't say that. You digress.
What prophecy did God leave out of the scriptures?No I don't. Just the verifiable words.I know, didn't deny, nor did I not allow for that by what i've said.the bible didn't say it, I didn't say it or imply it,... just that it is the only verifiable part of what he's spoken.Again, YOU said "human reasoning", not me. Use Godly reasoning, it's probably what God meant when he spoke thru Isaiah, don't you think so too?You couldn't be more wrong. I've seldom seen anything so irrelevant. It has nothing at all to do with suffering, it is about knowing what you're talking about when discussing your faith!!!

​

LOOk again PLEASE:1Peter3:15: But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Nothing at all about suffering for doing good, just be ready to explain (interperet) your faith with reason.

1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; __________________

Peter is addressing those who are suffering for Christ ... he speaks at length about the difference of suffering in the flesh because of sins, and suffering in the flesh even when we are falsely accused ie, for and like Christ.