Why Sola Scriptura isn't God's plan

[Montalban]

The Church which was founded on upon Christ, was neither the Roman Catholic church nor the Eastern Orthodox church.

It wasn't Protestant.

The New Testament church was biblical.

How could it have been? The Bible wasn't compiled to the 300s.

 

[sheina]

False; there were many years between Christ's establishment of his Church and the first Apostolic writings.

The Apostles and the bishops they appointed were the authorities in the Church during that time.

Another incorrect presumtion on your part. This is just your opinion once again. And I bet you got your information straight from the "updated" church history books of the Roman Catholic church....correct?

 

[Montalban]

Nah. Your denomination has no authority except for itself. Is called solo ecclessia. I don't have to pretend anything since I am not the one making the wild, unsupported claims that my church wrote the bible.

Show from scripture why you have your position. Oh, I remember! I've asked you and you've replied that you just believe it to be so.

Apparently that's not unsupported!

 

[sheina]

It wasn't Protestant

I didn't say it was Protestant, did I? The Protestants weren't around until the 16th century at the start of the Protestant Reformation.

How could it have been? The Bible wasn't compiled to the 300s.

The Body of Christ/the Church has NEVER been without the Scriptures. The Old Testament certainly was around at that time...it was around when Jesus walked this earth, for He quoted from it. The New Testament canon was completed during the first century.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

The Church which was founded on upon Christ, was neither the Roman Catholic church nor the Eastern Orthodox church.

I see.

The New Testament church was biblical.

How were they "biblical" if they didn't even have the bible? It was 20 years until the first account of Paul was written down after Christ ascended. Church teaching was carried on solely by oral tradition at this point, and of course the old testament.[/quote]

The Scriptures were the only and final authority in the early churches.

citation needed.

Any teaching or practice which was merely the uninspired tradition of man was rejected. In addition, the New Testament church was spiritually alive-not merely an organization, but an organism. The churches were composed of regenerated, baptized believers.

can you define what this means?

There has alway been a remnant of born again believers from the first century church to this present day.....

Did this remnant leave you any writings (other than the NT)?

but Christendom (those who profess Christ and warm the pews on Sunday mornings) have become apostate and this apostasy is getting worse. Jesus said "the gates of hell shall not prevail against His Church/Body", so therefore, nothing has happened to the Body of Christ/Church which He has built.

Again, i would like to see proof of this 'remnant' church that has gone unnoticed by history for 1800+ years until the baptist church was founded.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Another incorrect presumption on your part. This is just your opinion once again.

When were the first NT texts written?

And I bet you got your information straight from the "updated" church history books of the Roman Catholic church....correct?

Gambling is a bad habit.

You can continue to reject and deny that those verses have anything to do with Sola Scriptura...that is your choice. However, your rejection and denial doesn't change the Truth about any of those verses I posted.

...and that tells me that you have no comeback. None of the verses you posted mention scripture, save one, which mentions the Pentateuch.

 

[Rick Otto]

It wasn't Protestant.

How could it have been? The Bible wasn't compiled to the 300s.

How could it not have been?
It was fully in protest against the spiritual blindness the orthodox religious system of it's time.
Reform is an idea as old as Adam.

 

[Montalban]

Another incorrect presumtion on your part. This is just your opinion once again. And I bet you got your information straight from the "updated" church history books of the Roman Catholic church....correct?

The books that we now have in the Bible were written quite early on. However they were not compiled together into the Bible happened 300 years after Jesus

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=ivebeenshown;When were the first NT texts written?

in the Apostolic age.

Gambling is a bad habit.

not if you bet on scripture.

 

[ivebeenshown]

in the Apostolic age.

Were they written prior to Pentecost?

 

[Rick Otto]

The books that we now have in the Bible were written quite early on. However they were not compiled together into the Bible happened 300 years after Jesus

People had compilations. Some had more some had less. it isn't as if no one had any idea of what comprised the body of scripture until the councils got around to asserting their dubious authority over it.

 

[Rick Otto]

Show from scripture why you have your position. Oh, I remember! I've asked you and you've replied that you just believe it to be so.

Apparently that's not unsupported!

I love how you demand Sola Scriptura for satisfaction.
It tickles me every time.

 

[Rick Otto]

Were they written prior to Pentecost?

i doubt it, but does this mean you don't consider OT saints to be fully a part of your Church?

 

[laconicstudent]

According to the Barrett study there are 781 EO denominations and 242 Catholic denominations.

The Facts and Stats on 33000 Denominations: World Christian Encyclopedia (2001, 2nd edition)

Of course, most of those groups listed aren't separate "denominations" at all, which is rather amusing. That's a poorly put together list.

 

[ivebeenshown]

i doubt it,

So what authority would Christians have turned to between Pentecost and the writing of NT manuscripts?

 

[sheina]

The books that we now have in the Bible were written quite early on. However they were not compiled together into the Bible happened 300 years after Jesus

Old Testament Canon. The Old Testament was collected by the Jews (Romans 3:1-2). All 39 books of the Old Testament are thought to have been finished by the time of Ezra (Luke 11:51).

New Testament Canon. The New Testament was written by the apostles (John 16:13). The New Testament was completed during the days of the apostles (Jude 1:3). The New Testament was received by the believers in the early churches (John 10:27; 1Thessalonians 2:13).

 

[laconicstudent]

Old Testament Canon. The Old Testament was collected by the Jews (Romans 3:1)

1 What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision?'

*blank stare*

What?

 

[Standing Up]

as I told you earlier, Mary's assumption was common in the early church as a part of the deposit of the faith. It just wasn't fully defined until later on

[T]he Apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb; and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; and the holy body having been received, He commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise: where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary] rejoices with the Lord's chosen ones. . . (Eight Books of Miracles 1:4 [A.D. 575]).

If therefore it might come to pass by the power of your grace, it has appeared right to us your servants that, as you, having overcome death, do reign in glory, so you should raise up the body of your Mother and take her with you, rejoicing, into heaven. Then said the Savior [Jesus]: "Be it done according to your will" (The Passing of the Virgin 16:2-17 [A.D. 300]).

Therefore the Virgin is immortal to this day, seeing that he who had dwelt in her transported her to the regions of her assumption (Homily on Simeon and Anna [A.D. 400]).

The Lord said to his Mother, "Let your heart rejoice and be glad. For every favor and every gift has been given to you from my Father in heaven and from me and from the Holy Spirit. Every soul that calls upon your name shall not be ashamed, but shall find mercy and comfort and support and confidence, both in the world that now is and in that which is to come, in the presence of my Father in the heavens". . . And from that time forth all knew that the spotless and precious body had been transferred to paradise (The Dormition of Mary [A.D. 400]).

As the most glorious Mother of Christ, our Savior and God and the giver of life and immortality, has been endowed with life by him, she has received an eternal incorruptibility of the body together with him who has raised her up from the tomb and has taken her up to himself in a way known only to him (Encomium in dormitionnem Sanctissimae Dominae nostrae Deiparae semperque Virginis Mariae [ante A.D. 634]).

No, no, no. Look at the dates you have cited to try to prove a tradition is tied to an apostle

Look folks, we got scripture or tradition. Tie that tradition of your to an apostle. And in the meantime, try not to behave like the heretics against whom Irenaeus wrote regarding scripture.

Scripture:
" 1. When, however, they are confuted from the Scriptures, they turn round and accuse these same Scriptures, as if they were not correct, nor of authority, and [assert] that they are ambiguous, and that the truth cannot be extracted from them by those who are ignorant of tradition. For [they allege] that the truth was not delivered by means of written documents, but vivâ voce: wherefore also Paul declared, “But we speak wisdom among those that are perfect, but not the wisdom of this world.”33113311 1 Cor. ii. 6. "

Tradition, but note very carefully what is required:
" 2. But, again, when we refer them to that tradition which originates from the apostles, [and] which is preserved by means of the succession of presbyters in the Churches, they object to tradition, saying that they themselves are wiser not merely than the presbyters, but even than the apostles, because they have discovered the unadulterated truth. "


Where is that succession of faithful men who taught the same faith as Peter, Paul, and the others? We know where it is not.

Certain groups speak against scripture that it is ambiguous and the truth cannot be extracted therefrom. Incredible, but nothing new under the sun.

 

[Rick Otto]

Wise guys.

 

[Rick Otto]

So what authority would Christians have turned to between Pentecost and the writing of NT manuscripts?

Turned to for what? They had apostles right there among them.