Bible-Creation-Evolution

[mzungu]

Because evolutionists believe we evolved from asexual organisms.

Evolutionary biology is unable to reveal why animals would abandon asexual reproduction in favor of more costly and inefficient sexual reproduction.

Even evolutionists admit its a problem for their theory:

In his 2001 book, Evolution: The Triumph of an Idea, Carl Zimmer admitted:

‘Sex is not only unnecessary, but it ought to be a recipe for evolutionary disaster...'​

Hogwash! this has been answered by biologists over and over again. You might as well ask why do cars have round wheels.

Since I cannot be bothered to explain it to you I copy pasted this answer if that is you bother to read it at all:

Sexual reproduction produces offspring that have a combination of the genetic material of their parents. A variation or mutation in genetic code may be beneficial or detrimental to the animal, which will lead in its earlier death, OR survival to reproduce. Reproduction primarily by animals with beneficial mutations produces a purified genepool enabling the species to survive hard times through preference added by natural selection. Natural selection always prefers healthy genes to pass on and discard the weaker genes. This sort of a feat could only be acheived by sexual reproduction; it is not possible in asexual reproduction where the genetic code is same for the offspring as the parent unless drastic change due to sudden mutation occurs to produce altogether new species which is not normal.
Co-operative procreation increases the effective evolution of a creature by a factor of 6.

Read more: Answers.com - Why is sexual reproduction important for advanced animals
​

 

[Tiberius]

Was the "common ancestor" that Adam evolved from alive when Adam was created? was the "common ancestor" of that "common ancestor" alive when Adam was created and so on...

Who says Adam was a real person? Many people interpret that part of the Bible as metaphoirical, y'know.

And I gotta ask... Common ancestor between Humans and what?

In any case, the Bible cleasrly states in genesis 2 that God forms Adam from the ground. This is easily interpreted as saying that, while God allowed evolution to proceed by itself after setting things in motion, he guided it towards Humans. Still using evolution and natural selection as tools, but notice how it refers to Adam being formed from the dirt of the ground, much like how the earth brought forth plants. God forming Adam from the ground could very well be a metaphor for God using the tools of evolution and natural selection to form Adam. And if that is true, then the common ancestor between Humans and any other species would have lived long before Adam.

 

[Tiberius]

Oh, and AV, I'm still awaiting your evidence that God used his voice when creating plants...

 

[AV1611VET]

Oh, and AV, I'm still awaiting your evidence that God used his voice when creating plants...

Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

 

[Hespera]

^ 4 evolutionists in a row failed to answer.

And you think you are honest?

We all know quote mining isnt honest. do you?
Why do you do it?

 

[1611AV]

Who says Adam was a real person? Many people interpret that part of the Bible as metaphoirical, y'know.

God says.

And I gotta ask... Common ancestor between Humans and what?

Actually, that is my question

In any case, the Bible cleasrly states in genesis 2 that God forms Adam from the ground. This is easily interpreted as saying that, while God allowed evolution to proceed by itself after setting things in motion, he guided it towards Humans. Still using evolution and natural selection as tools, but notice how it refers to Adam being formed from the dirt of the ground, much like how the earth brought forth plants. God forming Adam from the ground could very well be a metaphor for God using the tools of evolution and natural selection to form Adam. And if that is true, then the common ancestor between Humans and any other species would have lived long before Adam.

And of Eve???

See in order to believe in evolution, one must discount the Word of God. If a Christian is blinded to the abomination of that, then God help them...

What if the whole Bible was metaphor??? How does one become a Christian? Based on what scripture, the ones he believes to be non-metaphoric? Do you really not see the issue here? Or we Saved by interpretation?

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.(Romans 3:4)

 

[Wiccan_Child]

And of Eve???

See in order to believe in evolution, one must discount the Word of God. If a Christian is blinded to the abomination of that, then God help them...

What if the whole Bible was metaphor??? How does one become a Christian? Based on what scripture, the ones he believes to be non-metaphoric? Do you really not see the issue here? Or we Saved by interpretation?

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.(Romans 3:4)

But some parts of the Bible have to be taken metaphorically. Jesus spoke in metaphor and parable; it does him a disservice to take those words literally. It's like those people who interpret "eye of the needle" to be a literal gateway, so that they can justify keeping their riches, instead of realising that Jesus was just using an idiom.

So if Jesus himself spoke in metaphor, who's to say Genesis wasn't a metaphor? Moreover, does it even matter? If the central tenant of Christianity is salvation through Christ, surely it's just splitting hairs as to whether the Earth is 6000 or 4,500,000,000 years old? It's an interesting discussion, sure, but surely it doesn't ultimately matter?

 

[Assyrian]

Lets try and keep things on track. No need for everyone to attack Research1's post.

Now I posted this the other day to faith gardian, without a response thus far

Genesis 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

How do you explain this? Why would man be alone with all the billions of years of evolution, No Female????

As a teenager that was my favourite bible verse. There were a few billion human females on the planet, but I was still alone and hoping for that special somebody.

Did God speed up evolution for Adam and cause the "common ancestor" to produce a full grown Human Female for Adam. Did God bring Adam a Baby to raise and marry and eventually mate with? Did the sub Human ancestor raise her?

No, God brought forth a Woman not a baby Gen 2:21-22 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

That is as strait forward as it gets. If you don't believe what the Bible says regarding the creation of Eve, then you don't believe the Bible. God Created Eve. She did not evolve.

If you are going to take the description of Adam's creation figuratively, then why would you think the creation of Eve switches literal? Of course you could still say God formed Adam using evolution, an evolution that included male and female like very other mammal. God could still have cloned a woman from Adam's rib if he wanted too, he wouldn't even have to create the X chromosome because Adam had one. But I think that misses the whole point of the story, which is talking about the 'one flesh' of the sexual union Gen 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Nathan responded with this:

Or is the whole "Adam and Eve" thing an etiological myth?

Do any Christians here (faith gardian, Mr. Dave, or any other Christian) agree with Nathan?

I prefer the term parable or allegory to myth. I don't think it is a etiological myth, verse 24 shows the purpose of the story, to tell us about marriage and how it is God's plan for the people he created, not to explain where these strange curvy, but pretty versions of people came from.

 

[Nathan Poe]

And of Eve???

See in order to believe in evolution, one must discount the Word of God.

Or posess enough humility to accept that they've been reading it wrong.

If a Christian is blinded to the abomination of that, then God help them...

Humility in the face of God's creation is an abomination? God help you...

What if the whole Bible was metaphor??? How does one become a Christian? Based on what scripture, the ones he believes to be non-metaphoric? Do you really not see the issue here? Or we Saved by interpretation?

What if it is? What is it you need to be saved -- the Bible, or Christ?

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.(Romans 3:4)

Every man? Including those who wrote, copied, translated, and interpreted the Bible over the last 2,000 years?

Or are those men exempt?

 

[TheReasoner]

Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

So then the plants are in effect an echo of God's creating words, right?

 

[1611AV]

Or posess enough humility to accept that they've been reading it wrong.



Humility in the face of God's creation is an abomination? God help you...



What if it is? What is it you need to be saved -- the Bible, or Christ?



Every man? Including those who wrote, copied, translated, and interpreted the Bible over the last 2,000 years?

Or are those men exempt?

Go read the Bible again Nathan.

 

[1611AV]

As a teenager that was my favourite bible verse. There were a few billion human females on the planet, but I was still alone and hoping for that special somebody.

And yet you found a female with all your ribs intact. Youre reaching man.

God created Eve because there was no female human. That is why according to the scriptures, Eve is the mother of us all.

Genesis 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

I know, I know. A metaphor, of course.

 

[Hespera]

And yet you found a female with all your ribs intact. Youre reaching man.

God created Eve because there was no female human. That is why according to the scriptures, Eve is the mother of us all.

Genesis 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

I know, I know. A metaphor, of course.

And people talk if the chicken or egg came first!

The ego of men is just too much sometimes. Of course 'god made man first". Coz you know, they are more important and all. And then made women as a favour to him.

 

[TheReasoner]

And yet you found a female with all your ribs intact. Youre reaching man.

God created Eve because there was no female human. That is why according to the scriptures, Eve is the mother of us all.

Genesis 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

I know, I know. A metaphor, of course.

Of course. But still, we can trace the human genes back about 200,000 years where we DO reach a common ancestral mother. From Africa, not the middle east.

In contrast the mitochondrial "Adam" lived 50-80 000 years later. That is our most recent common MALE ancestor.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Go read the Bible again Nathan.

How about you just point out the part that says, "God's right, and every man is wrong except us."

Or are you just making that up?

 

[Mr Dave]

And of Eve???

See in order to believe in evolution, one must discount the Word of God. If a Christian is blinded to the abomination of that, then God help them...

What if the whole Bible was metaphor??? How does one become a Christian? Based on what scripture, the ones he believes to be non-metaphoric? Do you really not see the issue here? Or we Saved by interpretation?

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.(Romans 3:4)

The Word of God is Jesus, I do not discount Him yet accept evolution.
If by Word of God you meant the Bible, then just as with Jesus, it need not be discounted.

What if the whole Bible was metaphor? What's that got to do with it, the Bible isn't all metaphor, no-one has said it is. It's a collection of all-sorts from many time-periods written to different audiences to convey a variety of messages.

 

[Assyrian]

And yet you found a female with all your ribs intact. Youre reaching man.

Only people with an odd number of ribs were alone? You asked why God said it wasn't good for man to be alone, that holds whether God used a rib to to solve the problem or not.

God created Eve because there was no female human. That is why according to the scriptures, Eve is the mother of us all.

No, that is your explanation of why God used a rib and why Eve was called mother of all living. It is not what Genesis actually tells us.

Genesis 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
I know, I know. A metaphor, of course.

Or maybe because she had just been promised her seed would be the saviour of the world. She wasn't literally the mother of everything living.

 

[1611AV]

But some parts of the Bible have to be taken metaphorically. Jesus spoke in metaphor and parable;

Yes, but the Bible makes it clear when it speaks in a parable.

it does him a disservice to take those words literally. It's like those people who interpret "eye of the needle" to be a literal gateway, so that they can justify keeping their riches, instead of realising that Jesus was just using an idiom.

I believe you are pointing to this verse:
Matthew 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

But on must continue to read for the following verses tell of which God was speaking of and how with him nothing is impossible.

Gen 19:25-26 When his disciples heard [it], they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

So if Jesus himself spoke in metaphor, who's to say Genesis wasn't a metaphor?

Because God did not speak metaphoric in the creation.

Moreover, does it even matter?

To a Christian it means everything.

If the central tenant of Christianity is salvation through Christ, surely it's just splitting hairs as to whether the Earth is 6000 or 4,500,000,000 years old?

One can not be sure that there is even such thing as Salvation if he reads literal scripture as metaphoric. Now what if I can show you through the scripture that the Earth can indeed be 4,500,000,000 or possibly older? I can. It does.

It's an interesting discussion, sure, but surely it doesn't ultimately matter?

Believing in evolution does not disqualify one from Salvation. Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ or not believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is all that matters as far as Salvation is concerned. (And when I say "believing on Him") I do not mean believing in him or that he exists.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

The Devil questions the Word of God. In fact it's the first thing he did:

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

He tricked the woman into thinking God was speaking "metaphorically"

 

[Assyrian]

The Devil questions the Word of God. In fact it's the first thing he did:

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

He tricked the woman into thinking God was speaking "metaphorically"

That was the devil? I though Genesis said it was a serpent. You are not interpreting it "metaphorically" are you?

What metaphor did the snake use anyway? I thought he just said it wasn't so and that God wanted to keep them from becoming like God.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Only people with an odd number of ribs were alone? You asked why God said it wasn't good for man to be alone, that holds whether God used a rib to to solve the problem or not.

I've heard an interesting interpretation of Genesis concerining Adam's "rib":

Men actually aren't missing any ribs -- that's just a myth. The Jews would've seen enough skeletons to have noticed that, so the notion of this myth explaining a situation which didn't actually exist makes little sense.

What I've heard, is that "rib" is actually a mistranslation, and the bone that eve was supposedly made out of was, in fact, the baculum. Humans are one of the few mammals who do not posess this bone -- something else the Jews would've noticed by looking at a couple of skeletons.

Now here we have two tangentally related situations (the presence of females, and the lack of a certain male "bone.") both begging for an explanation -- does it seem plausible that the Jews would kill two birds with one mythological stone?