[moved from Spirit-Filled/Charismatic]Things WOF and non-WOF disagree on.

[franky67]

Lets get specific, and list them, and let the list provide items for subjects for debate on other new posts.

I'll start;

1. Positive confession. franky67

2. Healing is available to every Christian, as it was included in Jesus' work on the cross. Optimax

3. God prospers His children. Allen1901

 

[Optimax]

Healing is available to every Christian as it was included in Jesus work on the Cross.

 

[Allen1901]

God prospers His children!

 

[Simon_Templar]

I don't believe in positive confession. I believe that having a positive attitde enables you to reach your potential more than a negative attitude does.

However, in my view positive confession is basically equivalent to magic, its basically casting spells.

I believe God prospers his children. I do, however, think that sometimes he calls some of his children to lives that are not materially prosperous.

I also believe that Healing is available. I do not, however, believe that it is guarenteed in the here and now.

 

[franky67]

Lets get specific, and list them, and let the list provide items for subjects for debate on other new posts.

I'll start;

1. Positive confession. franky67

2. Healing is available to every Christian, as it was included in Jesus' work on the cross. Optimax

3. God prospers His children. Allen1901

4. ______________________________________

 

[Optimax]

I don't believe in positive confession. I believe that having a positive attitde enables you to reach your potential more than a negative attitude does.

However, in my view positive confession is basically equivalent to magic, its basically casting spells.

I believe God prospers his children. I do, however, think that sometimes he calls some of his children to lives that are not materially prosperous.

I also believe that Healing is available. I do not, however, believe that it is guarenteed in the here and now.

Jesus said this;

Mark 11:23-24

23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
KJV

 

[franky67]

I don't believe in positive confession. I believe that having a positive attitde enables you to reach your potential more than a negative attitude does.

However, in my view positive confession is basically equivalent to magic, its basically casting spells.

I believe God prospers his children. I do, however, think that sometimes he calls some of his children to lives that are not materially prosperous.

I also believe that Healing is available. I do not, however, believe that it is guarenteed in the here and now.

However, in my view positive confession is basically equivalent to magic, its basically casting spells.

What ever you dwell on eventually you will speak, God told us to think on whatever is true, honorable, right, pure, lovely, or of good report, dwell on these. Phillippians 4:8

This is not magic, it is the word of God, so if a person asks me how I feel, and I don't feel so good, I will tell him the truth, that I don't feel so good, BUT, I am healed by the stripes of Jesus.

 

[Simon Peter]

Here’s a list of some of the issues that WoF and Non-WoF usually disagree on.

Disclaimer: This list is a general guide only. In other words, I think most (but not all) WoF would be on one side of the fence, and most non-WoF/traditional Charismatic (but not all) would be on the other side of the fence, of these issues.

In addition, there are plenty of Charismatic Christians who now hold many WoF beliefs, even though they don’t call themselves WoF (and may have never heard of the label). This is a result of the WoF monopoly on Christian TV, and the millions of Christian books published by WoF authors.

1. Positive confession
2. Healing for all believers
3. Prosperity
4. Sovereignty of God
5. Suffering
6. Success and failure
7. God’s discipline
8. Painful trials
9. The Fear of God
10. God’s judgment upon the earth
11. The definition of faith (what faith is)
12. The Character of God (God of love/God of wrath)
13. Our standing before God (wretch, beloved or both)
14. Tithing (Freewill offering or required)
15. Judging/criticizing other Christians
16. Tolerance of false teachers

peace,
Simon

 

[franky67]

Here’s a list of some of the issues that WoF and Non-WoF usually disagree on.

Disclaimer: This list is a general guide only. In other words, I think most (but not all) WoF would be on one side of the fence, and most non-WoF/traditional Charismatic (but not all) would be on the other side of the fence, of these issues.

In addition, there are plenty of Charismatic Christians who now hold many WoF beliefs, even though they don’t call themselves WoF (and may have never heard of the label). This is a result of the WoF monopoly on Christian TV, and the millions of Christian books published by WoF authors.

1. Positive confession
2. Healing for all believers
3. Prosperity
4. Sovereignty of God
5. Suffering
6. Success and failure
7. God’s discipline
8. Painful trials
9. The Fear of God
10. God’s judgment upon the earth
11. The definition of faith (what faith is)
12. The Character of God (God of love/God of wrath)
13. Our standing before God (wretch, beloved or both)
14. Tithing (Freewill offering or required)
15. Judging/criticizing other Christians
16. Tolerance of false teachers

peace,
Simon

1. Already answered
2. It is a covenant promise
3. Malachi, ch 3
4. We don't deny it, He also keeps His covenant promises
5. Don't deny suffering, many causes
6. Not any disagreement
7. He Treats us like an earthly father treats his children. nothing here to fear.
8. see above
9. Not an issue, fear means reverance
10.He will judge the unreighteous
11. Now faith is.. Hebrews 11:1
12.God of Love to His own, God of wrath to the lost.
13. Our standing is "in Christ"
14. See item 3
15. Not an issue, all Christians do it.
16. I you like a teacher I don't like, then you are tolerating that teacher. This is also a non issue because both side do it.

 

[murjahel]

when one is not what they call 'word of faith'...
this thread comes across as an 'attack'...

for my findings in the Word do not confirm
the premises of WOF...

so... is this an attack on my beliefs,
twisting them, mocking them???
and
why is it here, and not in the 'debate WOF' forum?​

 

[probinson]

There are some people who are so rabidly anti-WoF, that if you disagree with them on anything, they'll declare that you are WoF, have been "infected" with WoF, or otherwise have a WoF belief that "traditional" Charismatics don't hold to.

Generally, the issues people genuinely disagree on center around the goodness of God. From my experience, this really doesn't have a whole lot to do with whether or not one is WoF, but is FAR more dependent upon the way one views God. That's why I've sometimes found myself in interesting discussions over the years, where WoF people have vehemently disagreed with me while "non-WoF" folks have agreed wholeheartedly with what I was saying.

I'm seeing people who are really embracing the Love of God from all denominations and backgrounds coming into agreement with one another, not on doctrinal issues, but that we are to be known as followers of Christ because we Love one another.

 

[franky67]

this is funny !

what I disagree with is
a thread like this here,
when it belongs in the debate WOF
forum, but no one must come there
to be 'attacked' by the WOF...
so they sneak threads like this in here...

LOL​

Sneak ? How darest thee.!

 

[Simon Peter]

1. Already answered
2. It is a covenant promise
3. Malachi, ch 3
4. We don't deny it, He also keeps His covenant promises
5. Don't deny suffering, many causes
6. Not any disagreement
7. He Treats us like an earthly father treats his children. nothing here to fear.
8. see above
9. Not an issue, fear means reverance
10.He will judge the unreighteous
11. Now faith is.. Hebrews 11:1
12.God of Love to His own, God of wrath to the lost.
13. Our standing is "in Christ"
14. See item 3
15. Not an issue, all Christians do it.
16. I you like a teacher I don't like, then you are tolerating that teacher. This is also a non issue because both side do it.

Lol,

I'm sorry...I misunderstood the thread.

I thought you were genuinely interested in where WoF and Non-WoF disagreed. I didn't realize you just wanted an opportunity to refute various disagreements, or to argue your case for all of them at once.




Simon

 

[murjahel]

Sneak ? How darest thee.!

to bring a debate thread into
this thread, when WOF debates are supposed
to be in a different forum, is the 'sneak'...
did not see a warning on the top of this thread
saying
'this is a debate thread, placed here
instead of in the debate forum,
cuz some of you won't come over there'​

we should have 'warnings' like that
at least,
unless we just keep WOF debates ovdr
there as formerly planned ...
LOL​

 

[~RENEE~]

hasn't this been done before? Why do it again.?

 

[Faulty]

It's déjà vu all over again.

I don't apologize for it, believing Christianity would have been better off had WoF never existed. But that said, I dont consider those following it to be non-Christians, and I never have, but I'm also glad I'm not entering my judgment having to defend myself because I taught others such doctrine.

That said, I'm not gonna go wading into debates again on each point as before. Nothing came out of that but galvanization of a lie.

 

[LinkH]

Lets get specific, and list them, and let the list provide items for subjects for debate on other new posts.

I'll start;

1. Positive confession. franky67

One can believe in confessing the word of God without being a part of the WOF movement.

2. Healing is available to every Christian, as it was included in Jesus' work on the cross. Optimax

This was a belief in the healing movement of the 1800's. This is also an historical Pentecostal belief.

3. God prospers His children. Allen1901

One does not need to be part of the WOF movement to believe in this.

How about some other concepts for discussion-

* The doctrine that Jesus died spiritually and/or completed redemption for mankind in Hell.
* That Satan can't understand speaking in tongues.
* The idea that God does not afflict people with illness, death, and various other judgments.
* The teaching that it is wrong to pray 'Thy will be done.'
* The teaching that you aren't supposed to pray for something more than once.
* Whether Christians should seek to have a lot of money.
* Whether it is appropriate to declare what you want in faith, and call it 'prophesying.'

 

[murjahel]

to infer (nicest word I can think of for it)
that because I am not WOF,
that I and others non WOF believe
in a God of wrath, not a God of love...
is a false message...
(other inferences too were made,
but will deal with just this one)

I believe in a God of love...
I beleive someday sinnners will receieve
His wrath, but only after He has done
all He can to keep them from it...
He loves that much...

I believe in a God of love,
Who knows what is best for me,
and has for all tohers...

it was best for Paul and Silas
to be in prison, to win the Philippian jailer,
that was not lack of a loving God,
that was the nature of a loving God...

so many of the inferences (!)
on this thread are attacks on non WOF,
this thread belongs where it can
be 'defended' without breaking the rules,
and they made a forum for that...

we also have the choice not to read
their inferences there, and not have
to defend ourselves for the millionth time...

but that is not a reason to have
the 'debate' brought here, where
we choose to discuss other matters...​

 

[Leah]

Lets get specific, and list them, and let the list provide items for subjects for debate on other new posts.

I'll start;

1. Positive confession. franky67

2. Healing is available to every Christian, as it was included in Jesus' work on the cross. Optimax

3. God prospers His children. Allen1901

Ok, now here's my issue with point #2. What about the blind man whom Jesus healed: was he a christian or no? Or the woman who had the issue with blood and spent all that she had for some help but only Jesus healed her? And what about all of us at even know who have been sick with the flu, head/chest colds, sinus problems, ect, ect?

Also, what about all the people He fed with just a couple of fish and a minor portion of bread? Were they christians??

 

[Optimax]

Ok, now here's my issue with point #2. What about the blind man whom Jesus healed: was he a christian or no? Or the woman who had the issue with blood and spent all that she had for some help but only Jesus healed her? And what about all of us at even know who have been sick with the flu, head/chest colds, sinus problems, ect, ect?

Also, what about all the people He fed with just a couple of fish and a minor portion of bread? Were they christians??

Of course non of them were Christians!

They could not be!

Jesus had not gone to the cross yet so the new birth was not available.

God heals the unsaved today as well.

However, healing belongs to the Christian as It was included in the work of the cross. It is by faith just as it was then. Some think it is God's will they be sick.