What is a counter-missionary?

[Heber]

Hi Heber,
please forgive the newbie mistake. I was referring to the historical spiritual roots of Christianity, which is my faith. I know very little about my family ancestry...I certainly could have some such blood roots somwhere!



I think that is absolutely a wonderful insight. If our focus is where it should be, it makes it much easier to spot things that aren't of Him.

Hi Rana - that's OK, no problems! I thought I had missed something somewhere, that's all. You are correct, though, our Jewish roots do make us stop and ponder.

So often believers spend their time debating fakes and heresys and fail to look at the original Word in as much detail and without making connections across the whole of scripture.

 

[yedida]

Hi Shalom Heber,
I'm glad you've decided to post once in awhile. I've missed my midnight buddy!! It can get lonesome all by my lonesome!! Though Rana was posting till about an hour ago!
You haven't started at your new congregation yet, have you? Didn't you say in May?

You know, digging deeper into the scriptures is what I love about MJ. Sometimes doing some digging is what has to be done, otherwise there are questions left unanswered or the answer just doesn't make sense.

 

[ChavaK]

What I find so heart wrenching is that even the traditional Christians have jumped on the Messianic bandwagon now.

Overall, do you see this as a bad thing? Why?

 

[ChavaK]

Messianics would be welcome in the community around here so long as they aren't trying to get others to accept Jesus.

Do you think that there is a difference in acceptance depending on whether
it is a Messianic Jew or a Messianic Gentile? Would the Jewish community
tend to be more welcoming to one group verses the other?
We don't have a Messianic community here that interacts with the Jewish
community, so I would be interested in your experience.

 

[yedida]

Overall, do you see this as a bad thing? Why?

Many years ago, back in the '70s these TV personalities were selling swatches of material that had been anointed by oil (Crisco?) and prayed over and just like in the book of Acts these swatches had been worn by "anointed" Prophets of God so for a "donation" of $30+ you can have one of your own and receive healing for all your ills.....

The only thing different now is they are using talliyot and there's a Rabbi joined up with a pastor selling these things.

If the person really believes it, I think God would honor it; but it seems more dangerous than good. I'm a born skeptic and it rings of deceit.
For me, it's not the offering of the "anointed" tallis, it's the promise that it will cure all one's illnesses.

 

[Heber]

Hi Shalom Heber,
I'm glad you've decided to post once in awhile. I've missed my midnight buddy!! It can get lonesome all by my lonesome!! Though Rana was posting till about an hour ago!
You haven't started at your new congregation yet, have you? Didn't you say in May?

You know, digging deeper into the scriptures is what I love about MJ. Sometimes doing some digging is what has to be done, otherwise there are questions left unanswered or the answer just doesn't make sense.

I leave here at end of April and will be inducted on 22nd May - so roughly a month to pack, move and be ready to start work.

We were never meant to take the words just as they appear on the page - it has to tempered by the culture the writer lived in, the societal norms that were in force where he lived at that time (which may, or may not, equate to the cultural situation the writer is used to), his relationship to G_d, whether he writes as emic or etic, and why, among all the other things he could have written he chose to write the words we read today and, of course, it's context and connection in relation to other parts of scripture. Properly studying the Bible is no part time job!

We have been studying Mark in this way - it's a 'pod-cast' gospel. Kept short for mobility and for the sole purpose of telling about Yeshua. So why did he include the bits that are there, but not others? When you dig really deep you begin to see that there was a method in what he did, and it's not always a comfortable one, either.

 

[Lulav]

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[Tishri1]

not on that channel but glad you posted it ...thanks!

Well our guest Yishai has gifted us with very insightful perceptions of things in Yisrael, never hear it on our news of course. The turn out at our young and small dati(MO) Shul was about 45-55 folks, depending on which day(Erev Shabbat, and today Shabbat) it was. It was nice that most were not self-hating Jews. No 2 staters we. The Egypt thing may well prove to be quite difficult for The Land, and for us here too. None of us are prophets(least I'm not), but please ask for the Peace of Yerushalayim (Miz. 122).

We ended Shabbat with Havdalah and then finally came home. We're pooped.

The "nice lady", aforementioned actually is nice. I believe she learned a great deal about traditional Jews and sensitivities due to history and theology there, if that's a fair way to put it. She has a good heart and genuinely wishes to be a ger tzaddik. She was quite touched by the community(sense of family) there and they had the grace and the wisdom to include her warmly, at times she teared up. I was touched myself by all this. Was able to share with her my own experiences years ago as both a 1/2 Jew and 1/2 Lakota when confronted with what I call "attack gospel" and how the result was not no but Halifax NO. Years down the road He met me in a huge mess of my own making. Just tried to keep down that wall of separation from both sides.

Yep, Tishri, we hope R. Richman will be here in June(+ or -). It is tentative, don't want to eat too much crow pie if it doesn't pan out. If it's a go, later when we find out, will try to post info on it. IIRC it was 2007 in Roswell that a "hot ticket" in the audience tried to play "stump the rabbi" by asking some 'guilt trip' type question of him(the rabbi). By the time the Rabbi got done(and he, the rabbi, did this in a very loving teaching mode, seriously, he was most compassionate) the young man had been taught the importance and meaning of the blood covenant to a Christian. Rabbi never said he believed it, in the Christian sense, he just explained it. Absolutely amazed I was. Sometimes, to me, it seems a lot of folks think Jesus is just some new sheriff in town and you ought to hop in his squad car and ride up and down Main Street lookin' for bad dudes. And the idea that his name is Y'shua gives them the fits, as we all well know. It happens that Rabbi Richman can quote and explain the B'rit like a machine gun, in his soft spoken way. Do you ever catch his parashot on universaltorah.com?
The Universal Torah Network - Teaching and Relating Torah Principles, Views and Understanding To The World

I guess this will work, first time I've ever done it.

It's late, I'm pooped,

Shalom

 

[Desert Rose]

There are ones still doing that today, seen it on late night more than once, it turns the stomach!

As far as this though, what do you mean by this?

"If the person really believes it, I think God would honor it"

Placebo effect in modern science, or power of faith in religious terms. If a person truly believes something, then it might cure him, be it Eastern Orthodox Icons, magic aprons from the Biblical accounts of apostles or even a crooked tv evangelist.
I am not sure God "honors it" per say, but the fact remains, people get cured, even when believing in magic powers of a god of another religion, and God allows the healing to come about

 

[yedida]

Placebo effect in modern science, or power of faith in religious terms. If a person truly believes something, then it might cure him, be it Eastern Orthodox Icons, magic aprons from the Biblical accounts of apostles or even a crooked tv evangelist.
I am not sure God "honors it" per say, but the fact remains, people get cured, even when believing in magic powers of a god of another religion, and God allows the healing to come about

Have you seen the "revival" now playing in Alabama? It's been going since sometime last year. It's like the Lakeland Fl thing, they claim they're gonna continue till the Lord comes (pre-trib rapture believers). It's already been documented that the majority of "healings" have been fakes.
(I just checked my DirectTV and I no longer see it listed, wonder if they finally stopped? or just took it off the air?)

 

[anisavta]

What I find interesting about those kinds of "revivals" is the healings. In Lakeland it was that everyone was getting gold teeth. Like HaShem wouldn't just restore the original ones? I haven't heard about the Alabama fiasco but I'm sure it's pretty much the same o' same ol'. And the circus surrounding it all is appalling.

 

[Lulav]

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[yedida]

Thanks DR, I wonder though if HaShem is really honoring it or allowing those who don't obey him to be lead astray and be deceived? Even false prophets can heal, it says so in Deut. but we aren't to be lead astray by their 'signs and wonders' even if it makes us feel better . Didn't Yeshua say that it was better to enter the kingdom with missing parts than to enter hell whole?



ActuallyI really wanted to know what it meant to Yedida, being Messianic and all.

I am wondering where this teaching comes from? Biblical backup?

The teaching doesn't come from MJ. There is no scriptural referencing that I'm aware of. That's why I qualified the statement with "I guess..." It comes from the WoF crew.
It relates to the fact that no matter how wicked or evil a person is who teaches someone the salvation gospel, if the newbie hears and believes, he wil be saved. (God at this point doesn't care what the preacher's motives are, He's interested in His returning child.)
Soooo, WoF says if someone preaches prosperity, healing, etc. regardless of the their motives, if the Bible is preached, and the listener believes, it will work.
WoF is big on manipulating the Word to what they want to hear.

I got about 40 years of bad teaching to overcome, some of it crops up now and again.

 

[Desert Rose]

Have you seen the "revival" now playing in Alabama? It's been going since sometime last year. It's like the Lakeland Fl thing, they claim they're gonna continue till the Lord comes (pre-trib rapture believers). It's already been documented that the majority of "healings" have been fakes.
(I just checked my DirectTV and I no longer see it listed, wonder if they finally stopped? or just took it off the air?)

hilarious...gold teeth ha?

Lulav did raise an interesting question.Worthy of thinking it thru.

 

[Desert Rose]

( sorry, my machine is acting up, double posts, etc. It makes me look like an idiot. Hey, laptop i dont need any help in this, can do it all by myself!

 

[Heber]

The teaching doesn't come from MJ. There is no scriptural referencing that I'm aware of. That's why I qualified the statement with "I guess..." It comes from the WoF crew.
It relates to the fact that no matter how wicked or evil a person is who teaches someone the salvation gospel, if the newbie hears and believes, he wil be saved. (God at this point doesn't care what the preacher's motives are, He's interested in His returning child.)
Soooo, WoF says if someone preaches prosperity, healing, etc. regardless of the their motives, if the Bible is preached, and the listener believes, it will work.
WoF is big on manipulating the Word to what they want to hear.

I got about 40 years of bad teaching to overcome, some of it crops up now and again.

Not in favour of the view but against it - Acts 16:16ff

 

[anisavta]

( sorry, my machine is acting up, double posts, etc. It makes me look like an idiot. Hey, laptop i dont need any help in this, can do it all by myself!

 

[Heber]

hilarious...gold teeth ha?

Lulav did raise an interesting question.Worthy of thinking it thru.

Favourite hymn at their meetings: Crown him with many crowns...

 

[visionary]

May God receive all the glory .. is all I can say... My spiritual divider is not qualified to split the meat from the bones on this one.

 

[anisavta]

Favourite hymn at their meetings: Crown him with many crowns...

Oooooo that's baaaaad!